Newcastle Emlyn - Early goods rolling stock

[Anotheran]

My final test was to try cutting with overcut set on (the the minimum vale of 0.1 mm). I had originally avoided it because of those 0.4 mm bits in the windows. I didn't want to end up with most of them breaking. So I did just one window with it set on as a test.

 

 

On the left is the previous one. The one on the right is the one with overcut switched on. Immediately it can be seen that the corners are square. To me it looks a huge amount better (and I already liked the previous one!) In addition I can confirm that it is still all in one piece and seems solid.

 

So now we're onto the next step... 66 minutes of cutting with overcut on

[Anotheran]

Some good news and some bad.

 

The pieces that I now have are really neat. Square corners, with very little tidying up needed. But unfortunately the job didn't complete properly. In addition, whatever cause the error in it that stopped it prematurely caused a cut to be made from the last point it had got to up to the corner of the sheet. Fortunately this sliced through very little else, but it did write off a couple of pieces. Add this to the fact that it only cut nine windows out of sixteen (I need twelve) and eight of the internal support frames (I need fourteen) and I need to do another sheet with the remainder.

 

I still see this as a very useful tool. But I think that I'll cut smaller sets in future building up the overall kit bits at a time. That way I can keep a better track of what's going on and hopefully avoid so much of a waste of plasticard. I am aware that two sheets of plasticard is still considerably cheaper than any kit would ever be and I'm getting something that is custom designed to match the prototype, but I still don't like the idea of wasting so much of my material!

 

Next update probably won't be until Monday as I doubt I'll get time to take another look over the weekend.

Edited November 18, 2017 by Anotheran

[Anotheran]

So now I'll describe a schoolboy error. But in order to get there I went through a few steps.

 

I created a new cutting pattern in Studio to give me the additional pieces I needed, plus some spares. Having used the cutter just a few times it's clear that it's connection is temperamental if there are other USB printers attached, or even drivers for them enabled. When the connection goes the cutter gives up and returns to the origin without lifting the blade. So I combated this in a couple of ways. Firstly I went through all of my print drivers and those that were using a USB port I set them temporarily (after documenting their current setting) to FILE. This meant that the Portrait connected perfectly and shouldn't be interfered with. Secondly I decided to cut small sections at a time.

 

 

I didn't cut the pink at all, that was just from the previous one and moved out of the way. I cut the cyan and orange bits one at a time then, feeling brave, the blue and green ones together. The result was perfect cuts with no connection loss at the wrong time. More intensive as I had to go back to it every 7 minutes, but I'm happy with that as I'm at the PC anyway. So now I'd got plenty of windows (I did lots of spares) and enough ribs.

 

So flushed with success I went on to the corrugated pieces. This is Slaters Plastikard corrugated sheet. I'd only bought one as I thought I'd only need one. It's 0.015" and obviously has a corrugated profile. So I set the cutter to depth of 4 (which should be able to just make it through 0.381mm) weight of 33, speed of 1 and 3 cuts. The result was pretty good. I needed to use the scalpel a little, especially on the crosses on the window and around the end walls, but I was expecting to have to bend and snap a bit.

 

 

Only then did I look closer at the end walls. Surely there's no way my locos will get under that door! That's my schoolboy error. In thinking I was being smart scaling up from the track gauge to get the other dimensions I'd ignored the fact that the photographer is looking up when taking it and I'd ignored the foreshortening effect on the height. They were a full 10mm short. That means that all of my walls and all of my ribs are short by the same amount. The window parts and the roof are fine. I have a plan for the ribs that means what I have won't be completely wasted, but the walls will need to be done again as they need to be single pieces for strength. And I only had that single piece of corrugated sheet.

 

So right now I feel rather daft. But another lesson learned... it's fine to scale things from photographs... and the gauge is normally a good place to start. But make sure the result actually makes sense. I should also say that I was going to prototype in card on the cutter, but got too carried away after the ribs all came out so nicely so went straight to the corrugated sheet.

 

I'll update here on how I correct it all!

[Anotheran]

While looking again at the GWR journal article on Newcastle Emlyn in order to confirm my thoughts on how I'd miss-scaled the engine shed I noticed the caption next to an adjacent photograph:

 

"The turntable was only able to take a small tank engine. 'When the water supply was being maintained, we used a 22XX tender loco and made sure we filled up with water on the last trip ready for the next morning.' When this occurred, the engine had to stand overnight at the approach to the turntable."

 

Bachmann did a class 2251 in GWR and early BR colours... I guess before 1930 it would have been a class 2301 Dean Goods which Oxford Rail have released just this year... I didn't think I'd get to run a tender loco on NE (unless in imaginary preservation era), but now I think I have an excuse for possibly two types. I do like an 0-6-0 tender loco! But I really should sort out the shed first, even if the tender loco couldn't get in there. But that Oxford Rail model in lined GWR pre-1928 livery does look quite nice.

[Anotheran]

OK, so I've ordered an Oxford Rail Dean Goods in GWR lined livery! The earliest livery on offer was that of post 1906, without the Indian red frames. So it can't be run in my earliest time frame. It can though be run in my 1906 and 1918 time frames. OK, so it wouldn't take much to add in that Indian red on the frames to back date it. It has a top feed though, which probably wasn't actually added until 1913 at the earliest. So I may remove that to make it more correct for when I want to run it.

 

In case anyone is interested I now have for my different running periods:

1896 - 3 locos: 642 (class 633), 645 (class 645) and 965 (class 1076) - all unbuilt kits

1906 - 4 locos: 642 and 645 (the same as above), 1306 Cader Idris (to be modified from L&Y 2-4-2) and now the class 2301 Dean Goods which will be renumbered

1918 - 3 locos: 1306 as above, 845 (class 517) and the Dean Goods as above

1934 - 3 locos: 845 as above, 1472 (class 14XX) and an 0-6-0PT

1968 - 1 loco: D6889 (yet to be renumbered from 37 238)

 

With the exception of the Dean Goods and the as yet unnumbered PT all of the locos are correct representatives of their class that were recorded in those years at Newcastle Emlyn. The Dean Goods will add a bit of variety and the PT just needs me to do some more research to establish a valid number. I clearly need something more for 1968, but to add variety here I have to stretch reality a bit by continuing passneger services and putting in class 101 and 120 units. But for now I'm concentrating most on the earlier times. I've set my times reasonably close to the years when livery changes took place to allow locos to run at multiple times without having to duplicate then in different colours. It means that 1906 will actually be my most colourful setting with a mix of pre and post 1906 liveries, both lined green but 642 and 645 both sporting Indian red frames while the others will have green frames.

 

Back to the loco shed soon...

[Mikkel]

Corrugated sections.jpg

 

 

Following this with interest, it's a very attractive and interesting prototype station to model.

 

Even if the engine shed needs work on the scaling, that door shape and the corrugated sides simply shouts "Newcastle Emlyn" to me, so the look is already there I think. 

[Andrew P]

A nice selection of Locos Neil, Looking forward to seeing you at our Open Weekend mate.

[Anotheran]

So this morning I set about correcting the mistake in the shed design. With a big thank you to Jonathan (corneliuslundie) I was able to get straight on with the changes to the walls of the shed. This was simply the addition of 15 mm in height which takes the shed door up to the correct minimum height for clearance of structures. I was able to utilise the remenant of the sheet I'd used before for the new ends. But the side walls are from a new sheet, hence the change in colour to white.

 

 

For these cuts I used my experience from the first time around (so it wasn't completely wasted!) and set the cut depth to 5 and used four passes. This meant that I just needed to run a scalpel around to snap the pieces out. For the windows I only ran the scalpel on the crosses, the triangles then snapped out neatly. I've not done any tidying up of the pieces, so the cuts were as you see them, almost all neat and tidy.

 

At Warley on Saturday I stood next to 1450, on show from the SVR, and was reminded just how big this "small" loco is! So even a small shed needs to be pretty big! My youngest daughter (just turned three) wanted to get onto the footplate. I told her that we couldn't get up to it. Her answer was "yes we can, look daddy, steps, one two". So I had to tell her that it was oily and dirty and would make a mess of her clothes, and ask her if she wanted a hot-dog instead!

 

 

The next bit will be the reworking of the internal ribs. That will take some time as I'm going to make use of many of the parts I have with extensions and add in additional laminations of the full (correct) height. This will give me a more solid structure as I am then using 3, or even 4 layers, of 0.010 instead of just 2. It's just plain sheets though, so any mistakes are a little less expensive! That will need to wait for a bit though as I'm out of free time for the rest of the afternoon.

 

[Clearwater]

The move to Newcastle Emlyn...

 

 

I drew it out using AnyRail on over a 1906 OS map and liked what I saw…

 

131224 - 24x14 Full Size.png

 

 

 

[.

Hi

 

How did you load the OS map into any rail? It'd be helpful if you could explain how? Apols if answered above but just reading this thread having picked it up on your sig!

 

Thanks

 

DAvid

[Anotheran]

How did you load the OS map into any rail? It'd be helpful if you could explain how? Apols if answered above but just reading this thread having picked it up on your sig!

Thanks

DAvid

 

Hi David,

 

Many apologies for the long delay in any response. I've had very little time over the last few months and RMWeb rather went to the wayside. However, I'll be posting a little more now, though modelling time is rare these days!

 

To answer your question (just in case you've not found it elsewhere)...

1. Take your map bitmap (I took screenshots of the NLS maps site and stitched them together as needed) with space around it showing areas that you're not going to need but that may provide scaling information.
2. Compare your period map with the modern Google maps view for landmarks that are still identifiable. Pick two of these beyond your chosen area as your reference points E and W and another two N and S.
3. Using the Google measuring tool measure the distance between the points on the modern map
4. Crop the period map so that these points are right on the edge of the bitmap (that's why you chose points beyond your desired area)
5. In AnyRail create a rectangle that is the correct scale size for your measured distances. So for example if your cropped map is 1320' by 660' (quarter by eighth of a mile) you need to create a box in AnyRail that is 5,280mm by 2,640mm if you're modelling in 4mm to the foot scale.
6. Select this box and click the "Load Image" button from the toolbar
7. Navigate to your map in the dialog and the map is loaded to fit your rectangle
8. Don't click adjust for the rectangle or your shape (which you've sized correctly) will change to match the bitmap!

Hope this helps. Though I rather hope you found out from somewhere else first rather than waiting so long for me to answer!

 

Kind regards, Neil

Edited March 22, 2018 by Anotheran

[Anotheran]

So having been away from RMWeb for rather a long time I thought I should post an update (and I need to get round to reading the threads I was following which could take a long time on some... Edwardian for example!)

 

I've not been completely idle on a modelling front. Though I can't say that I've been super productive. Most of what I have done is in the form of buying things. I have decided to concentrate initially on the pre-nationalisation phase of NE. So I am looking at four time periods. 1896/7 (the first year of NE), 1906/7, 1918 and 1934. To this end I've done a fair amount of research on locos and was very excited when I managed to get hold of a copy of GWR Goods Wagons by Atkins, Beard and Tourret.

 

Following on from the research I've purchased quite a number of kits, many on eBay, some from the manufacturers and a few from the local model shop. eBay had to be the source for many as to cover the range of dates above I'll need quite a few early wagons and in different liveries. With CooperCraft having been run into the ground by the current owner and taking money without supplying goods (I got stung last year myself but I don't want that discussion on this thread as it's been covered elsewhere) the only resort was eBay. With some judicious use of AuctionStealer I've managed to get a collection of about 40 suitable kits at an average of £8.50 including postage, which is only a pound or so more than they would have been had the owner actually be selling anything.

 

I've also got some kits for locos, which are altogether more scary! But to meet the time periods I want I didn't have a lot of options.

 

In the following posts I'll outline what I have planned (and the little bit I've actually done) for each period.

 

If anyone is left following after my long absence then thank you very much for continuing to read!

Kind regards, Neil

[Anotheran]

Newcastle Emlyn 1896/7

 

A brand new end to the line and it will need to be all freshly painted too! But that will match the fantastic colours of the rolling stock. At this time period we'll see four locos known to have been seen at NE at this time.

Class 633 number 640 (or 642, I've not decided yet as both visited but I'm only building one!)

Class 645 number 645

Class 850 number 1944

Class 1076 number 965

 

All will appear in the wonderful late Victorian livery of Middle chrome green (the pre 1928 variety), Indian red frames, vermillion buffer beams, polished brass and fully lined. I have purchased Alan Gibson kits for 640 and 965 and a 3d print from Shapeways for 645 (though that will take some modifying.) I don't yet have 1944 and will need to get some of my kits built before I launch out into buying it as I currently have quite a lot of investment in unbuilt kits!

 

To go with these I'll have V6 iron MINKs from the Ratio kit (but needing the oil axle boxes modified to grease and the bonnet reduced), W1 cattle wagons from CooperCraft kits (built 1888 which will also need some changes from the kit as shipped) a Q1 provender wagon from CooperCraft, some GWR open 4 plank wagons from CooperCraft which need backdating as the kits are to diagram O5 dating to 1902. All of these will be in GWR red livery (I'm going with Mikkel's 1904 date for the change from red - see his fantastic threads, blogs and workbench for some great examples of this livery).

 

In addition to these I have kits for two Cambrian 2 plank opens (to be loaded with slates) and a Cambrian 4 plank open. These are both from Cambrian kits. Finally I have a Slaters kit for a Charles Roberts rectangular tar tank which can just about fit the period.

 

The above give me 13 kits that I already have, two built and two in progress. The built ones I purchased as built and will need stripping with Detol and repainting with a little other work. I'm also wanting to obtain some David Geen kits (which I know I need to do fairly quickly as I understand he's planning to retire at the end of May) for 3 plank opens (round and square ends), some outside framed vans and a G9 serpent (which dates from 1889).

 

The kit I started first is the Cambrian kits Cambrian Railways 2 plank open. I have two of these that I'll use for slate loads as they got everywhere on the system and everyone needs good Welsh slates! It's a nice kit that I almost ruined by using d-Limonene. As a solvent it wasn't strong enough to fully bond the plastic, but was strong enough to allow me to leave fingerprints! So I had to pull it apart and reassemble it with butanone. I know now that I should only use the Limonene for laminating sheets etc. It still needs some hooks to complete the build, but it's already a nicely details model.

 

The other kit that I've started for this period is the Slater's Ratio iron MINK. This was an amazingly nice kit to put together. Really simple with just a little filing here and there. It looks such a good wagon as well and I'm realy looking forward to seeing it in GWR goods red. I need to alter the oil axle boxes to resemble K2 grease ones (which I know I should have done before I put it together), but other than that, and some weight to be added (the roof is loose) the build is done.

 

I'm looking forward to some warmer weather now so that I can get the spray gun out and start painting some of the models that I've built. I suspect that may be some time, so it's fortunate that I still have a lot more kits to get onto! To finish off the goods trains I'm also currently working on the cutting diagram for a scratch build of an outside framed 1886 TOAD goods brake van. More on that in later posts once I've worked out what I'm actually doing properly!

 

As for passenger stock I'll be utilising Ratio kits both in themselves and as the base for etched sides to form a variety of four and six wheeled stock. But as I've been concentrating on the goods stock I'll need to come back to them later!

 

I'll post for 1906/7 a little later!

 

Edited to correct the manufacturer of the Iron MINK kit.

Edited March 23, 2018 by Anotheran

[corneliuslundie]

The Iron Mink looks very nice. I hadn't seen it before, though I am not sure how. It will certainly look better than the RR Iron Mink I am slowly scratch building at the moment.

However, what interested me is your mention of the Toad. Is this the wooden underframed predecessor of the AA16? We need two in 7mm for our new club BCR layout and have been contemplating commissioning etches for the ironwork and possibly laser cut framing etc. There is a good drawing in an old issue of the HMRS Journal.

Jonathan

[Anotheran]

However, what interested me is your mention of the Toad. Is this the wooden underframed predecessor of the AA16?

 

Hi Jonathan,

 

I guess the answer to your question is yes and no. The 1886 design was almost identical to the 1882 design. Both were iron under-frame. 1882 was bulb profile and I believe 1886 was channel profile (but I am guessing the underframe profile in 1886 from the drawings, not from any text that I've found.) As originally built they had four-shoe brakes and grease axle boxes. Most were rebuilt with clasp brakes, oil axle boxes and normally self contained buffers as diagram AA16.

 

The wooden under-frame was on the 1874 type which (other than the underframe) appears very similar to the 1882 type in design except that the diagonal brace on the veranda door goes the opposite way (at least it does in the picture in the GWR Goods Wagons book!). So I guess that you could say it was a predecessor of the AA16, but via the 1882 and 1886 designs, many of which were rebuilt as AA16.

 

Kind regards, Neil

Edited March 22, 2018 by Anotheran

[ChrisN]

Neil,

|It is good to see that you have time to be posting again.  In terms of coaching stock I started a thread as to what was used on the Dolgelley branch i 1895 and one reply said that pre Great War the GWR ran on its branch lines, composite, third, two brake thirds and that this was the equivalent of the later B sets.

[Anotheran]

Neil,

|It is good to see that you have time to be posting again.  In terms of coaching stock I started a thread as to what was used on the Dolgelley branch i 1895 and one reply said that pre Great War the GWR ran on its branch lines, composite, third, two brake thirds and that this was the equivalent of the later B sets.

Hi Chris,

 

Thanks for that, it's good to be back!

 

I have train diagram information for July 1911 that shows three coach set of 6-wheel stock; composite, third, van with an extra third being attached on Fridays, Saturdays and fair days and trains that connected with Carmarthen would have a through portion Saturdays only "and days when traffic is heavy". In July 1912 the set was again 6 wheel stock but in the order of composite, van, third. Again an extra third was added on the heavy traffic days. For 1906 I don't have any written information, but the photo of Cader Idris shows a third, van (I believe both 6 wheel) and then a bogie clerestory coach, but only a small part of the last is shown so I can't work out what exactly it is.

 

I have no information for anything earlier, so I'll be going on guesswork, info from threads such as yours (which I shall now look for and digest) and what looks good on my model!

 

Kind regards, Neil

[ChrisN]

Neil,

It is this thread here not my usual thread.  Solid information is better than guess work ad it would appear that on your line they used 6 wheelers.  Now if you know which ones they are then you will be able to work out when they were cascaded from more important routes so would they be there earlier?  If not it would be four wheelers of some description.

[Mikkel]

Very interesting updates, Neil.  The 1896 scenario sounds exciting, and some nice builds underway already. I had no idea Slaters did an Iron Mink. I look forward to seeing  red goods trains 

 

Thanks also for the info on the Limonene, I have recently bought some and now I know not to use it for kits!

 

Your 40 kits on ebay at that fairly low average price is interesting. Something for would-be new manufacturers to keep in mind...

[aberdare]

Hi Neil

 

It's good to see a post from you as I was wondering what was happening on NE when I came back after a long break from the forum, I look forward to seeing your red wagons once they are complete as I have a few under construction as well.

 

I hope you manage to keep the modelling up, it sounds as if you have a few plans in mind.

 

Jim

[Anotheran]

Very interesting updates, Neil.  The 1896 scenario sounds exciting, and some nice builds underway already. I had no idea Slaters did an Iron Mink. I look forward to seeing  red goods trains.

Thanks also for the info on the Limonene, I have recently bought some and now I know not to use it for kits!

Your 40 kits on ebay at that fairly low average price is interesting. Something for would-be new manufacturers to keep in mind...

 

You were quite correct in your thought on Slaters... I've corrected my entry to Ratio! I hope I'll have a number of red wagons in the near future, but a full red goods train may be a little further off as that will need me to build one of my locos as well... and they're still a little scary! I'm also going to see what I can do about getting etches for the cast iron GWR plates and wagon numbers as I don't see any other easy way of doing them. I have seen that you've cut and shut some from some of the kits, but that gives me a rather limited range. But I'm still thinking on that one. I may ask Mr Narrow Planet if he'd like to start off a new line. There was a company that used to do them (which has slipped my mind) but they've removed them from their list.

 

As for the Limonene I wouldn't write it off completely. I'm going to try it on some of the other kits. The plastic of the Cambrian Models kit is noticeably harder than that of the Ratio kit, with that of the Cooper Craft kits somewhere in between (I wouldn't have spotted that if I hadn't bought forty in three month and started three off within a week!) So I'm going to try again with the Limonene on other manufacturers and see what happens. It smells nicer, as well as being less aggressive, so I'd rather use it if I could! I'll post the results on here, but it may be a while.

 

As for the average eBay price I think I've been somewhat lucky. I've seen some go for silly prices but I've managed to find job lots of three or four Cooper Craft kits at a time from the same vendors for reasonable amounts and combined the postage. Some of these lots have contained two or three kits each. So the end result has been a good overall cost. To be honest I'd have been OK paying a little more to have them as I didn't want to have to scratch build complete trains! I'll still be paying out for decent wheels and transfers in the long run as most of them are the earlier kits with plastic wheels. But if they had cost more I'd have bought fewer

 

I have to say that I've been very inspired by your threads on red wagons, much of which are Cooper Craft kit based, so I have made sure that I got a good stock of them in as quickly as possible given that it doesn't look like we'll ever see them manufactured again. Seeing what you've done with them has given me something to aim for, and a few extra kits gives me plenty of them to practice on!

[Mikkel]

Thanks Neil.  I have been looking at your Cambrian 2 planker again, looks like a nicely moulded kit and I do like the prototype. I can see that's an added attraction of NE as a location, you can justify some of the nice wagons from the Cambrian and other Welsh companies.

[corneliuslundie]

Thanks for the info about the Toad (and the Iron Mink - I have one of those like yours already but I understood that there are dimensional issues).

The BCR ex-GWR Toads were definitiey wooden underframed, so must have been the earlier design, predecessors of the predecessors of the AA16 so to speak.

Jonathan

[Anotheran]

Thanks Neil.  I have been looking at your Cambrian 2 planker again, looks like a nicely moulded kit and I do like the prototype. I can see that's an added attraction of NE as a location, you can justify some of the nice wagons from the Cambrian and other Welsh companies.

It is a very nice kit and I'm very glad that I bought it (I actually bought a couple!). I'm sure that the nice people of Farthing or Overbourne would use high quality Welsh slate as much as everywhere else in the UK. At the very least your station buildings would warrant it. And some of the best could have been shipped all over the place on those Cambrian two plankers... They're not red though

[Anotheran]

...and the Iron Mink - I have one of those like yours already but I understood that there are dimensional issues...

I'd not heard that, though you've got far more contacts than me and I'm looking at pretty course dimensions such as length, width, height, curvature of the roof, door width, wheelbase and distance between the strapping (or whatever it's called). I would like to know of issues though as I was considering getting more of them once I've got through at least some of my pile of unbuilt kits.

 

I've taken a look at the model from the kit as it is. As far as I can tell for all of the above measurements it matches almost perfectly (as close as I can measure with a small rule and curved corners, so within half a mm or so) in all of them to the diagram of the 16' iron MINK in Atkins, Beard and Tourret (Fig 353). According to the same book there were 100 built in 1887/8 to 16'6" but the GWR reverted to the 16' after that. Mine is to date from the early 1890s... let's say 1893, hence the need for me to convert it to grease axle boxes, so would be 16'. It also lacks rivets on the roof, so those will need to be added.

 

What would be nice would be to have a model of one of the 100 16'6" ones as a bit of variety. But I don't think I'll be scratch building one for a while!

 

Kind regards, Neil

[NCB]

I'll be watching your progress with slates for your Cambrian 2-plank wagons with interest. I've just built two fixed-side ones in 3mm (Coast Line Models 3D printed bodies and fittings, own etched chassis), and need some convincing slates to put in them.

 

Nigel