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Newcastle Emlyn - Early goods rolling stock


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Mike Morley, of this parish, said he made some slates from plasticard for a wagon.  He said he was in a rush to get it ready for an exhibition and swamped it in solvent and it went quite limp but went in the wagon with no trouble.  He tied after the exhibition taking more time and carefully gluing the slates together and the whole thing bent like a banana.  I may well use card or thick paper to make slates when I fill my 2 plankers.

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Mike Morley, of this parish, said he made some slates from plasticard for a wagon.  He said he was in a rush to get it ready for an exhibition and swamped it in solvent and it went quite limp but went in the wagon with no trouble.  He tied after the exhibition taking more time and carefully gluing the slates together and the whole thing bent like a banana.  I may well use card or thick paper to make slates when I fill my 2 plankers.

 

Chris, I'd heard of Mike's exploits! Which is why I'm interested in what approach others take.

 

Modelu does a "slate load", intended I think for narrow gauge wagons in 7mm. Here it is:

https://www.modelu3d.co.uk/product/wd140-wagon-loads-dinorwic-slate-wagon-load-7mm/

In the right scale could have possibilities.

 

I've never seen a pic of slates in a Cambrian 2-planker. Pity, might help visualise things.

 

Nigel.

Edited by NCB
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Chris, I'd heard of Mike's exploits! Which is why I'm interested in what approach others take.

 

Modelu does a "slate load", intended I think for narrow gauge wagons in 7mm. Here it is:

https://www.modelu3d.co.uk/product/wd140-wagon-loads-dinorwic-slate-wagon-load-7mm/

In the right scale could have possibilities.

 

I've never seen a pic of slates in a Cambrian 2-planker. Pity, might help visualise things.

 

Nigel.

 

Nigel,

I am not sure where Mike posted his comments but I would sooner say than watch someone make the same mistake,  I assume that Modelu could easily remake their load for other scales.  I am not sure I have seen a photo of a loaded two planker, not that there are many of them anyway. They would not need to be sheeted either so it would have to be done individually.

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Mike Morley, of this parish, said he made some slates from plasticard for a wagon.  He said he was in a rush to get it ready for an exhibition and swamped it in solvent and it went quite limp but went in the wagon with no trouble.  He tied after the exhibition taking more time and carefully gluing the slates together and the whole thing bent like a banana.  I may well use card or thick paper to make slates when I fill my 2 plankers.

Do you have a link for this Chris? Or is it not shown on a thread anywhere. I'd quite like to see someone else's attempts, and something that went wrong is often more helpful... though if it worked out in the end that maybe the way to go! I suspect that card may be the way that I go as well. I thought about doing a small section and then casting them. But that would end up with too many bits that were just replicated. It's not worth doing a complete one and then casting as I only want two wagons and I don't want them looking identical.

 

Modelu does a "slate load", intended I think for narrow gauge wagons in 7mm. Here it is: https://www.modelu3d.co.uk/product/wd140-wagon-loads-dinorwic-slate-wagon-load-7mm/. In the right scale could have possibilities.

 

I've never seen a pic of slates in a Cambrian 2-planker. Pity, might help visualise things.

I had seen the slates from Modelu and I am impressed. I'm sure they'd be able to rescale them if I asked. But, as you say, they are for narrow gauge wagons, so I'd need to use a number and cut and shut them to make them the right fit for the standard gauge 2-plankers. So I'm going to try to put something together out of card or plastikard first. Though research is proving problematic as I only seem to be able to find prototype pictures of narrow gauge slate loads.

 

I am not sure I have seen a photo of a loaded two planker, not that there are many of them anyway. They would not need to be sheeted either so it would have to be done individually.

I had thought that a sheeted load would be easier. But no sheets for slate loads, as you said. Mid you, the Cambrian Kits 2 planker is a very nice model and I wouldn't want to cover most of it with a sheet anyway. So I'll need to work out some way of doing the load.

 

Kind regards, Neil

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Do you have a link for this Chris? Or is it not shown on a thread anywhere. I'd quite like to see someone else's attempts, and something that went wrong is often more helpful... though if it worked out in the end that maybe the way to go! I suspect that card may be the way that I go as well. I thought about doing a small section and then casting them. But that would end up with too many bits that were just replicated. It's not worth doing a complete one and then casting as I only want two wagons and I don't want them looking identical.

 

 

Kind regards, Neil

 

Neil,

There is no link exactly.  Mike mentioned it on a thread, not even sure which one.

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Thinking about how slates would be stacked in a Cambrian 2-planker, do you think they be stacked facing across the wagon, or facing lengthwise? Crosswise seems sensible to me (being more stable during braking), and would be OK in a fixed-side wagon, but wonder if it could be dodgy in drop-sided wagons.

 

Nigel

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Slates would be best off loaded crosswise in a fixed side wagon, which is an easy conversion from the dropside wagon (or I can supply 3D printed). Dropsides wouldn't be needed but of course could be used as a fixed side, there is no rule that says the sides have to be dropped to load/unload after all. 

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Slates would be best off loaded crosswise in a fixed side wagon, which is an easy conversion from the dropside wagon (or I can supply 3D printed). Dropsides wouldn't be needed but of course could be used as a fixed side, there is no rule that says the sides have to be dropped to load/unload after all. 

 

Now why didn't I think of that! I had visions of the sides being dropped and the slates sliding out.

 

It was actually your fixed sided wagons I had in mind. Here's picture of a couple I've done in 3mm, your body and fittings, my etched chassis. Currently in Precision General Purpose primer.

 

post-26119-0-52691600-1522605406.jpg

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Very useful. Looking at the pic, my interpretation is that the slates are stacked facing the ends, rather than the sides, the opposite of what I assumed. There seems to be a small gap in the middle which presumably is filled with some sort of packing, such as timber.

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 Looking at the pic, my interpretation is that the slates are stacked facing the ends, rather than the sides,............

Uhmn, a slight difference of opinion here I think, I believe the face of the slates is on / to the sides.

The Cambrian wagon is the one in full view.

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Very useful. Looking at the pic, my interpretation is that the slates are stacked facing the ends, rather than the sides, the opposite of what I assumed. There seems to be a small gap in the middle which presumably is filled with some sort of packing, such as timber.

 

Uhmn, a slight difference of opinion here I think, I believe the face of the slates is on / to the sides.

The Cambrian wagon is the one in full view.

 

 

Thank you for posting that picture.  It is most informative in two ways, the stacking of the slates and the wagon does not have large Cam Rys on the sides which was the livery from about 1903, I think.  (I know it was well after 1895 so need not worry about it.)

 

There does appear to be lines running from side to side with a gap in the middle.  I would interpret that as the slates being stacked with the flat sides facing the front and back

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Very useful. Looking at the pic, my interpretation is that the slates are stacked facing the ends, rather than the sides, the opposite of what I assumed. There seems to be a small gap in the middle which presumably is filled with some sort of packing, such as timber.

  

Uhmn, a slight difference of opinion here I think, I believe the face of the slates is on / to the sides.The Cambrian wagon is the one in full view.

  

Thank you for posting that picture.  It is most informative in two ways, the stacking of the slates and the wagon does not have large Cam Rys on the sides which was the livery from about 1903, I think.  (I know it was well after 1895 so need not worry about it.)

 

There does appear to be lines running from side to side with a gap in the middle.  I would interpret that as the slates being stacked with the flat sides facing the front and back

Thank you Penlan for such an informative picture. I interpreted it in the same way as you. I think the lines that Chris has pointed out are between rows of slates. So I see five or six rows of slates each side of the central partition with the slates facing the sides. Though that would mean that the sides couldn't be dropped without risk of some slates tipping out.

 

I'm away at the moment so will look more and maybe have a play around next week.

 

Kind regards Neil

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Uhmn, a slight difference of opinion here I think, I believe the face of the slates is on / to the sides.

The Cambrian wagon is the one in full view.

 

Looking at the wagon, what I can see is lines going across the wagon. I was assuming these were the edges of the slates?

 

Cheers

Nigel

 

Edit: just read the above comment. Yep, the lines being between rows of slates would make sense.

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Just because a wagon's got drop sides, it doesn't mean you have to drop the sides  :jester: 

Are there not any photos of the standard gauge wagons at Blaenau Ffestiniog? 

In the back of my long distant past mind (1970's) I'm sure I've seen far better pictures of standard gauge wagons with slates in them, probably via the late Mike Morton-Lloyd or C.C.Green collections, or at Aberystwyth (National Library of Wales) in one of their myriad photo collections.

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Mike Morley, of this parish, said he made some slates from plasticard for a wagon.  He said he was in a rush to get it ready for an exhibition and swamped it in solvent and it went quite limp but went in the wagon with no trouble.  He tied after the exhibition taking more time and carefully gluing the slates together and the whole thing bent like a banana.  I may well use card or thick paper to make slates when I fill my 2 plankers.

 

post-730-0-73341500-1524928070_thumb.jpg

 

The one on the left is one of three done in a hurry.  The one on the right was done at leisure using the same materials several months later.

think the difference is that the initial batch remained soggy throughout its construction so dried evenly, while the stop-start later one dried out unevenly.

15thou Plasticard was used for the slates in this pair.  The very first one I did used 10thou, which looked better but is an even faster route to insanity.

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attachicon.gifP1010446.JPG

 

The one on the left is one of three done in a hurry.  The one on the right was done at leisure using the same materials several months later.

think the difference is that the initial batch remained soggy throughout its construction so dried evenly, while the stop-start later one dried out unevenly.

15thou Plasticard was used for the slates in this pair.  The very first one I did used 10thou, which looked better but is an even faster route to insanity.

 

Hi Mike, thanks for dropping in to comment. Those look very effective. Is there any chance that you have a photo of the top? Also, if you're able to direct me to the thread mentioned above in which you describe how you made them then I'd be very grateful.

 

Kind regards, Neil

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post-730-0-72780600-1524982646_thumb.jpg

 

Here's all four.  Only now do I realise that I made two loads using 10thou (The ones at each end).  Slates would have been propped against the ends of the wagons because they were heavily braced.  The drop-sides of the wagons would only have been supported by the locking pins at each end and would have given way under the considerable weight.  Even those that were converted to fixed-sides (like the one at the left hand end) would not have been strong enough, lacking any intermediate support along their length.

 

Pentrefan was thrown together in too much of a hurry for a dedicated thread to have been created.  The nearest it got was a mention on page two of the Cambrian Layouts thread, which at the moment is down near the foot of the opening page of the Railways of Wales section. 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/83601-cambrian-layouts/page-2

 

At the moment the layout is in a partly-dismantled state, having been retired from the exhibition circuit after just four shows because I found exhibiting far too stressful to be enjoyable.  It was my first exhibition layout and building it was an extremely steep learning curve.  There was a lot I got right - it looked very pretty and considering how small and simple it was it offered a surprising amount of operational interest.  We were even able to indulge in gravity shunting! - but there was also a lot I got wrong.  The sector plate in particular was a pain.  Where it stuck out beyond the end of the layout it was extremely prone to being knocked, despite being painted fluorescent pink.  Being so close to the rear edge of the layout also caused problems when set to the hidden return siding, the lack of space and the resulting sharp angles causing alignment problems.

The final straw was a brief clip of it at what turned out to be its final show appearing on YouTube.  Pointwork is the weakest of my many weak points (Everything that runs on any layout of mine has to have suspension of some sort if it is not to take to the ballast on a regular basis) but I didn't realise just how bad my track was until I watched footage of every wagon lurch across every rail joint!

(Pentrefan appears at 9.10 and ends forty seconds later.  Don't mention the gutter hanging off.  I did once, but I think I got away with it)

 

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Looks fine to me, Mike!

 

So our thoughts above that slates were stacked facing across wagons are wrong after all.

 

Nigel

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Whilst I can follow the logic if you have a drop side wagon, I feel there may be some physical problems when actually loading. I have come across a photo which clearly shows slates being loaded across the wagon, which in this case is a two plank one, with just side doors. The possible major difference is that the wagons in question are Furness Railway ones, being loaded with Westmorland slate, and perhaps the Welsh did things differently! The photo appears in a recent Cumbrian Railways Association publication, An Introduction to Cumbrian Railways.

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Another thought against loading slates across a wagon; you can only load half the wagon with the side lowered.  You have to expend more effort lifting the slates over the raised side when you get to the second half.

That doesnt apply to fixed-side wagons of, course, but I wonder if in practice the fixed-side conversions were ever actually used for slate traffic.  The only picture I've seen where the load was discernible was a ballast wagon.

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Many thanks to all for the erudite discussion on loading slates in Cambrian Railway wagons. i have a strong feeling that such a wagon and load will be on its way to Nantcwmdu soon to provide roofs for eyen more miners' houses.

Jonathan

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Loaded slates...
Fixed sides..
Somewhere in the back of my mind I recall an article on the LNWR exchange sidings at Blaenau Ffestiniog which showed the standard gauge wagons loaded with slate, it may have been a HMRS or LNWR Society publication.
The static 'preserved' wagons at Blaenau Ffestiniog have the slates stacked along the length of the narrow gauge wagons, contrary to period photo's like this one.
And as I've mentioned before, just because a wagon has sides that can be dropped, it doesn't mean they have to be  :O

 

post-6979-0-16832400-1525256594.jpg

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I've a couple of copies of original Cambrian drawings dated, if I recall correctly, 1899 and 1902, of 2-plank fixed sided wagons. The only difference is that one has the wooden blocks behind the buffers, the other doesn't. To me this implies that the Cambrian built 2-plank fixed sided wagons from new, not just as conversions from drop sides. I'm not sure there's any advantage in using drop-sided wagons for slates, if they are manually loaded as I suspect they were.

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Did the built-as fixed-side wagons have any intermediate strapping or other support? 

As far as I can see the drop-side conversions retained the hinge straps merely to hold the side-planks together.  The actual hinge parts, that originally connected the hinge straps to the curb rails, were removed.

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