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Newcastle Emlyn - Early goods rolling stock


Anotheran
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Well I've cut some boards, though for my test plank layout rather than NE... I don't see much point moving quickly ahead with NE before I at least get the test plank started as the whole idea is that I try things out on that first! I've taken some photos so will start a separate thread on that layout, maybe tonight.

 

As for NE I have made a change to the plan! I've made the adjustments to take into account the modified points (a la Grantham) to bring the platform and run-around lines to 45 mm centre separation from the normal 50 mm of Peco geometry. So now I'm only about 5 mm (1' 3") too narrow between the northernmost siding and the riverbank fence. So completely satisfied with that. So it's time to play spot the difference...

 

 

1810551056_140529-50mmspacing.png.a36b3a55f0eef21a747184302b63d51a.png      2019382178_140529-45mmspacing.png.43aa8b10a9bea5a33d389932bc51234a.png

 

Hmmm... not a lot to see. But be assured, the two lines closest to the platform are 5 mm closer in the picture on the right (which has also made the crossing slightly shorter in length) and all of the sidings (and the coal staithes and crane) are also that same 5 mm further south. I'm not sure it looks worth it on the plan (which in the above is at a scale of 1:8, so that 5 mm equates to 0.625 mm in the pictures!), but I'm hoping the efforts with the points will mean that it looks worth it on the model.

 

I'm certainly not sure it was worth a picture on here, but seeing how much the Lunesters like pictures I thought there was no harm in inserting them!

 

Neil

 

 

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Hi Neil, just caught up with this thread, sounds like you have some good modelling potential there and a warm office in the winter would be a nice bonus, BUT will any work, work get done?

 

Plans look good so far too.

 

All the best with the build.

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Thanks Andy,

 

I have to admit that at the moment, when all of the 'modelling' is on the PC it can distract from work work wherever I am!

 

I'm really looking forward to getting some real building done and posting here, and yes, very much looking forward to doing it in a warm office in the winter!

 

 

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Thanks Andy,

 

I have to admit that at the moment, when all of the 'modelling' is on the PC it can distract from work work wherever I am!  :nono:

 

I'm really looking forward to getting some real building done and posting here, and yes, very much looking forward to doing it in a warm office in the winter!

 

Neil,

Perhaps you need to transfer all your modelling stuff to an external drive which you can unplug.  ;)   Once started real modelling you will find the web more of a distraction, only Andy seems to be able to get all his modelling done and look at and comment on RMWeb all the time.

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  • 2 weeks later...
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Well I started my Doxey End thread for my technique trials and in a fit of impatience while the RMWeb site ground its cogs I clicked the post button three times!  :senile:

 

Does anyone know how to delete a topic posting? Or does that require an administrator?  :dontknow:

 

You wouldn't believe I worked in technology would you!

 

Regards, Neil

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Hi Neil.

Great plan! You can't go wrong with a GWR branch line model. You are right to include all aspects of the real model it makes for realistic and interesting operating sessions.

Don't be afraid to use your modelers license in the same way you have located the cattle pens behind the platform.

Will your viewing side be from the river side or from the road? I ask this as one of my layouts was built for public viewing which worked out well but the operator can't see the platform side when shunting which is a down side. This led to Goathland being built reversible! In my efforts to get everything near correct on Dunster I overlooked one key factor in model railways which was "if it looks right it is right". This could also be read as "if it doesn't look right it isn't". This is where the modeling license comes into play, best example is Jasons Bacup! The sidings, sheds and mills etc. can be modeled and placed quite convincingly in  the wrong place to create a better model scene. for instance,.......Have you considered 3 sidings? And. The mill could be placed on the wrong side of the tracks to create a view blocker for the smaller 9' (2.743M) layout configuration. Just a thought.

 

Am interested to see this develop into the model.

 

Regards Shaun. 

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Well I started my Doxey End thread for my technique trials and in a fit of impatience while the RMWeb site ground its cogs I clicked the post button three times!  :senile:

 

Does anyone know how to delete a topic posting? Or does that require an administrator?  :dontknow:

 

You wouldn't believe I worked in technology would you!

 

Regards, Neil

Try deleting each post or it might be easier to get an administrator to do it!

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Try deleting each post or it might be easier to get an administrator to do it!

Thanks Shaun. I found you can delete any of your own posts, except the first one! So I had to come clean and get an admin to do it!

Neil

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Thanks Shaun for your encouraging comments. I'm really looking forward to moving forwards on this and already the comments from you and others on the forum are increasing enthusiasm levels. It's a pain that so much time has to be spent earning a living!

 

Will your viewing side be from the river side or from the road? I ask this as one of my layouts was built for public viewing which worked out well but the operator can't see the platform side when shunting which is a down side.

I've swapped back and forth in my mind on this a few times. But where I am now is that the viewing side is the road side. This means that if create a back scene it just needs to be trees, hills and the outline of the ruined castle (which isn't such a new castle any more). Whereas the other way I'd need to work out how to get the other side of the road looking good from multiple angles in a 2D backscene.

 

In my efforts to get everything near correct on Dunster I overlooked one key factor in model railways which was "if it looks right it is right". This could also be read as "if it doesn't look right it isn't". This is where the modeling license comes into play, best example is Jasons Bacup! The sidings, sheds and mills etc. can be modeled and placed quite convincingly in  the wrong place to create a better model scene. Have you considered 3 sidings? And. The mill could be placed on the wrong side of the tracks to create a view blocker for the smaller 9' (2.743M) layout configuration. Just a thought.

I have to admit that Jason's Bacup is one of my primary inspirations. Completely different location, but the attention to detail is something I can only aspire to. I also liked the way, as you say, that he adjusted the scene to work best as a model.

 

On NE I think I am ok with the four sidings, though I have considered two. I think that the siding pairs are quite a feature, so I don't think I'd like to go with three. As for the mill as a view blocker it can be made to work with it on the right side of the tracks if I view from the road and move it slightly to the west. I actually thought of that in my early plan and I had the mill owners house and barn, rather than the mill itself, right at the edge of the board for that purpose (see post #3) but it sort of got dropped from my mind as I went more prototypical in layout. So I'll need to see what I can do to get it back as a blocker. I guess I could also put some trees between the mill and the house (like there are in the real world) as a blocker.

 

Thanks again for your input. I'll keep the thread up to date on how I change things as a result.

 

Kind regards, Neil

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  • 2 weeks later...
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This layout will require a lot of trees. The plan only gives an indication of the number! It has them all along the river bank, a full 9', as well as scattered over various other places. So I'll need a lot. While I do plan to make some from scratch with wire etc I decided that I'd start off with a pile of Woodland Scenics armatures and lichen. I also started out with a niece and nephew in attendance!  😮

 

These are the results:

 

IMG_2011.JPG.6f18db7ddc869c6f81f02f139e90f5d6.JPG

 

IMG_2110.JPG.3701e7c40f189e7502a78c0abe2283df.JPG

 

One each by nephew, niece and myself. I'm not going to say which was which... and actually, I'm not sure I can remember! Obviously they won't have the little plastic bases when on the layout. They still need spraying and dusting with flock for highlights. But I'm actually fairly pleased with them as "stock" items. I'll still want to make some specimens, and maybe over the long term work through replacing WS ones. But about 50 of these will be a great start to the wooded river bank background, they're fairly cheap, and fast to make!

I've learned a few lessons on the way. The key one is that I need to paint a mix of plaster and PVA (or something similar) onto the trunks to vary the texture a bit and then paint suitable colours before I put the greenery on! It's going to be fun retrofitting that to these.  😀

 

The tallest is 170 mm and the shortest is 140 mm. So I'll need some bigger, and quite a few smaller. What do people think as a "stock" item? Or do all Lunesters make all of their own trees from scratch? Answers on a postcard please... or in a response to the thread if it's easier.  😉

 

Neil

 

 

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A good way to start, and nice canopy work. Plus once you start modelling them....you can update these if the mood so takes you. Although as kids helped....you might wish to keep those.

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Neil,

I think they look fine especially as they will be in a group together.  170mm is 45ft which is reasonable.  The problem with trees is that they are big, but except if you have an enormous layout like Jaz and Kal then a proper 80ft or taller tree may look out of place.

 

Fortunately I do not think I will need trees, well at least not on Traeth Mawr although if I do build the narrow gauge that might be different.

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A good way to start, and nice canopy work. Plus once you start modelling them....you can update these if the mood so takes you. Although as kids helped....you might wish to keep those.

Thanks Jaz. Yes, these ones will remain as the first ones done by the kids. I've just spent some time looking at your trees on your AV thread... I've still got a long way to catch up on the thread, so no comments from me yet... but I'll be learning from what you're doing on there as I like them a lot.

 

Neil

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170mm is 45ft which is reasonable.  The problem with trees is that they are big, but except if you have an enormous layout like Jaz and Kal then a proper 80ft or taller tree may look out of place.

Thanks Chris. Yes, I agree re the height. But I do like the idea of having a few specimen trees closer to the front that will be scratch built and may be a bit larger. Especially as there were some quite distinctive trees next to the station building and the mill that appear in some of the photos. But I don't think I'll go full size, or all anyone will see will be tree!

 

Neil

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Neil,

I also think they look lovely, and if kids can cope with them there's hope for me!

I suppose the crux of the matter lies in what you want to do with the layout when it nears completion. If you're intending to show you will doubtless encounter the rivet counting brigade! If it's just for you at home, then what pleases you becomes most important. Viewing distance is also critical of course. The ones you have shown us look as if they could easily take quite a bit of re-modelling and thanks for the tip on the trunk covering. Luckily for me, there aren't usually too many trees on an MPD!

Look forward to the next instalment and doubtless you'll be honing your skills on 'Doxey End'.

Kind regards,

Jock.

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  • 3 weeks later...
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So having just got back from holiday during which the second week was spent in Mevagissey I learned some things about operation in a terminus (well actually a junction, but it looks the same in this case) station on the GWR. The station was Bodmin General (though I suspect anyone reading this knows that as they'll probably have read it in the Lunester Lounge!)

 

Now I do know that a preserved line won't necessarily follow the procedures of the group period, but it gave me a few things to think about. They're probably obvious to others on here, but I'll post them anyway just in case it's new to someone.

 

The first thing I learned was a detail of the run around process. You can see in the first video clip that GWR 4612 has stopped short of the end of the platform in order to run round its train on the loop. Nothing new to my mind here (except the dodgy quality shooting when I zoomed in too far!)

 

 

The loco then stopped to take on water on its way past the train. Again, that seems sensible to me given the position of the water tower:

 

IMG_2925.JPG.f0ac009d58f2d9978fcf5fd457a868af.JPG

 

Once the loco was attached to the other end of the train it did the bit I was surprised at. Even though all of the carriages were already alongside the platform the train was pushed back fully to the end of the track. Another (rather boring) video shows this:

 

 

Given that after it had pushed back it was only in the platform for another few minutes, and that the train had been stood there for a lot longer while not at the end while the loco took on water, does anyone know why it was pushed back? Is it just to allow those last minute passengers a shorter run to jump aboard, or is there some other rules based reason?

 

More to follow!

 

Neil

 

 

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Good stuff Neil mate. I like the point action in the first video. So much for slow motion switch machines huh!! and was the NE van a match board example with ply ends? Very interesting. Cool too that you captured the fire raging in the belly of the beast.

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Thanks Sasquach! It was actually the fire that I was initially trying to video. I wasn't actually expecting him to start his run around move quite so quickly... I hadn't even noticed them uncoupling the loco!  🙄

 

On 21/07/2014 at 17:12, Sasquatch said:

I like the point action in the first video. So much for slow motion switch machines huh!!

 

I have to say that I had watched the points being changed a few times before I came to the realisation that I really ought to make sure I got at least one clip that showed it happening! Though that did mean I rather over-zoomed the limited capabilities of my little compact camera. And I agree, it wasn't very slow, and the noise from the ground frame wasn't too dissimilar to that of a Peco solenoid!  😁
 

 

On 21/07/2014 at 17:12, Sasquatch said:

...was the NE van a match board example with ply ends? .

 

Here's a close up shot of the NE van...

 

IMG_2922.JPG.e0f354efb5560247114f8e25e038f4e1.JPG

Have to say I quite like the carriage it was attached to as well!

 

 

 

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Lovely work Neil, and lots of information there for those that intend to model prototypical movements. To my mind, although it's a preservation railway, they do try to mimic the real thing! I too would be interested in the reason for the 'push-back'. When I went with my father on footplate rides, I can't remember a run round situation - most of the stations we visited were the 'straight through' variety.

Thanks for sharing what must have been a wonderful holiday experience with us,

Kind regards,

Jock.

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Neil,

I am not sure why they did the push back.  I have never seen that on any of the narrow gauge railways I have visited or on the West Somerset, which is probably more relevant.

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Thanks Chris,

 

Or at least I think thanks! Now I know that it's not normal on preserved GW branches. So now I don't know whether it was normal, normal for GWR, normal for Bodmin... or something they just made up!

 

Seriously though, I do mean thanks. It's useful to know that it's not even a current standard on preserved GWR branches. But its still a manouver that I'd like as it adds some additional interest to the BLT moves. So unless someone comes back and says that it defnitely isn't what would have been done in NE I'll make it a part of the overall movements.

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Thanks Sasquach! It was actually the fire that I was initially trying to video. I wasn't actually expecting him to start his run around move quite so quickly... I hadn't even noticed them uncoupling the loco!  :blind:

 

I have to say that I had watched the points being changed a few times before I came to the realisation that I really ought to make sure I got at least one clip that showed it happening! Though that did mean I rather over-zoomed the limited capabilities of my little compact camera. And I agree, it wasn't very slow, and the noise from the ground frame wasn't too dissimilar to that of a Peco solenoid!  :O 

 

Here's a close up shot of the NE van...

attachicon.gifIMG_2922.JPG

 

Have to say I quite like the carriage it was attached to as well!

I have to say with that paint job that wagon looks a little plasticky.....looks like it might benefit from  a bit of weathering...... :jester:

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just re-visited this thread after some time. Fascinating stuff!

 

I went to Bodmin General back in May and watched the same process of the loco pushing the train back after running round. I think the reason for this is down to the length of the platform. The train consisted of 4 BR mark 1 coaches which, with the loco, just fitted into the platform. Whilst running round, some of the coaches were not adjacent to the platform and consequently could not be boarded by passengers. 

 

I have a DVD which covers a number of ex GWR branches, including Kingsbridge taken in about 1958 (I think). The platform there was much longer than that at Bodmin (built to accommodate long holiday through trains from Paddington), but the 45xx tank pushed its 2 coach B set back towards the station building. In this case, I assume the loco crew did this to make life easier for passengers. Whether it was common practice at GW (or indeed other regions) branch terminii with long-ish platforms or not , I have no idea. 

 

David C

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Here's a possible reason why the train was pushed back.

In the picture of the van you kindly put up there can clearly be seen a hose attached to a water faucet. It might just be that the water tanks needed filling and the hose is too short to reach the coaches nearest the engine.  Any takers?

 

The coach is a mk1 buffet car with commonwealth bogies. Should be available from Bachmann....... I know Hattons have the chocolate and cream version in stock albeit on mk1 bogies.

 

Edit; Hattons unbelievably have two versions..... with commonwealth bogies too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :sungum:

 

Edit#2: I might just have to scratch build one of those match board vans :declare:

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