The Official Rapido APT-E Thread

[Pete the Elaner]

Old H&M controllers may be simple, robust & reliable but don't give very good slow speed control. I have heard people argue otherwise, but then seen trains on their layout have no control between stopped & half speed.

A modern electronic controller such as a beige Gaugemaster gives vastly superior slow speed performance. Try one at a show or in a shop. I expect you will be impressed.

How did you measure 15v? Across the tracks with no loco running? This will always be higher than the voltage across a motor when it is running due to the resistance of the controller itself.

[alviseven]

Measured the voltage with a class 90 power bogie running hauling a train of 6 Mk2 coaches

Not too worried about slow speed control just do not want to damage the new APT or anything else more modern that I might buy.

[JSpencer]

I have just bought an APT-E having previously done some controller research decided my H&M clippers and duettes might not be the right for it. I have used these with modern Heljan Class 15 and Hornby P2 and A4 with no issues and cannot really see why the APT should not be ok however can any advise please. I know the total full speed is about 15V so would need to keep it to about 2/3 open max as this is 12V but the voltmeter I have in series seems to give a very smooth output without spikes. Rapido say it should have as little spikes as possible but cannot comment on the controller type.

Please help me to get my APT-E running. I have a slightly more gaugemaster controller too but cannot find it currently (think it looks like a series D) - wonder if this might be better. I do not want to go DCC and do not really want to buy a new DC controller but equally do not want to destroy the lovely new APT-E

Providing it is not the DCC sound fitted version, it should run fine (I won,t chance DCC chips on the old controllers personally).

 

I would be more worried about assembling the train (be very patient here, and choose a non scratch work top) and later demounting it (some people have used small amounts of modelling grease on the pancakes). And worried that the big nose overhang clears everything else on the railway circuit including other trans. People have had their noses scratched as the train past platforms.

[UP 4000]

Well, If you don't mind I'd thought I'd do an end of year review, Firstly hope everybody had a Merry Christmas and wishing you all the best for 2018,

 

So this year not been to great in running wise, work really got in the way, But it does fund the hobby and a massive dent in the old wallet this year, some new toys, 2x BLI Big Boys, Trix Challenger, Janus shunter, NRM/Locomotion Prince Henry, 3x Dapol Black Label A4's, Bachmann coaches, And the APT-E's still never ran.

 

Bit of good news, E-Train herself is still on display, as she has been from the day she arrived, came close though, I did consider boxing her up and using her display case for my first love, but no! She's still rules that one.

Service Use has been repaired as mentioned before, and as of Wednesday 27th December finally reunited with her coaching stock, Mainly new Travel Tubes to sort some stock out and a small project with her coaches which has gone well, Probably doesn't justify the £270ish spent on them but hopefully will sound great when running, Next year I'm afraid, Will be nice to see her and hear her in all her glory now all this is dealt with.

[Colin_McLeod]

Mr Tilt would this be the inspiration for the APT-P? or an early version of the tilting mechanism?

 

Picture from Facebook

[adb968008]

Mr Tilt would this be the inspiration for the APT-P? or an early version of the tilting mechanism? FB_IMG_1515449613860.jpg

 

Picture from Facebook

 

And a week later it was back in service.... :-)

[newbryford]

Mr Tilt would this be the inspiration for the APT-P? or an early version of the tilting mechanism? FB_IMG_1515449613860.jpg

 

Picture from Facebook

 

It'll buff out with T-Cut.....

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Mr_Tilt]

Mr Tilt would this be the inspiration for the APT-P? or an early version of the tilting mechanism? FB_IMG_1515449613860.jpg

 

Picture from Facebook

 

Hmmm, I reckon they'd got a bit too much feed forward in the tilt control system there. I'd back off R26 a couple of turns and try again. 

 

What EVER did they do to get it to fall right over??

[jonklein611]

Found this video and it has Kit in it!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mJNDh-zNAk

[Mr_Tilt]

Found this video and it has Kit in it!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mJNDh-zNAk

 

Ah yes, and Paul Leadley too, without whom we wouldn't even have this column to write about a model of E-Train.

 

It was good fun making that film, unlike some of the others I've done. The producer really understood the subject and didn't try to make political profit out of it.

 

Incidentally, notice Sir Richard Branson's pose at around 1:00 in the vid, leaning against the nose of the 390. Does that pose strike bells about various other vids concerning E-Train models? 

[newbryford]

Hmmm, I reckon they'd got a bit too much feed forward in the tilt control system there. I'd back off R26 a couple of turns and try again. 

 

What EVER did they do to get it to fall right over??

 

It wasn't uncommon to upend a loco when cutting it up.

Probably easier to get at the main frame members with a gas axe.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Jitmen]

I see Durham trains of Stanley are bringing out apt-p in n-gauge and oo

[Redkiterail]

the apt-p is a project with DJM Models not Rapido trains

[Fredashay]

I had purchased two Rapido Locomotion APT-E trains.  

I've kept one true to the prototype with PC-1, TC-1, TC-2, and PC-2 in that order.  

The 2nd train is still in the box unused.  I'd also ordered several extra TC-1 coaches and plan to assemble the 2nd train into a full passenger consist in revenue service.  I would like to run the 2nd train without the "computer car," but the way the model is constructed I'd have to remove one of the "pancakes" from one of the TC-1 coaches to eliminate the "computer car" from the consist (otherwise I have an extra bogie where two carriages join together which obviously can't work).  Anyone who owns one of these trains knows what I mean by all that.  Are the "pancakes" bi-directional and can one be removed from one of the carriages entirely and set aside?  Or are the "pancakes" built into the ends of the carriages?  I don't want to sacrifice one of my coaches to find out the hard way.

[UP 4000]

I had purchased two Rapido Locomotion APT-E trains.  

 

I've kept one true to the prototype with PC-1, TC-1, TC-2, and PC-2 in that order.  

 

The 2nd train is still in the box unused.  I'd also ordered several extra TC-1 coaches and plan to assemble the 2nd train into a full passenger consist in revenue service.  I would like to run the 2nd train without the "computer car," but the way the model is constructed I'd have to remove one of the "pancakes" from one of the TC-1 coaches to eliminate the "computer car" from the consist (otherwise I have an extra bogie where two carriages join together which obviously can't work).  Anyone who owns one of these trains knows what I mean by all that.  Are the "pancakes" bi-directional and can one be removed from one of the carriages entirely and set aside?  Or are the "pancakes" built into the ends of the carriages?  I don't want to sacrifice one of my coaches to find out the hard way.

 

All the bogies are the same and connected in the same manor, they can be removed without any issues, Look back through this thread and you'll find my Service Use (PC-3, PC-4) running eight coaches and not with TC-1, that's still in the box,

[Mr_Tilt]

Like Craig says, you can just pull them apart, section by section, and that means all the power and trailer cars and joint modules.

 

Do you plan to do anything about adding the other half coach worth of seats to the extra TC1s? And to be truly authentic you'd need to get rid of the tilt packs too, I doubt the passengers would live that blasting away right alongside them. 

 

But at one stage we were planning to install a Mk V tilt pack, an APT-P trailer car pack, under the floor of TC1, but you'd need to scribe an access hatch for it right underneath where the Mk II tilt pack is located now. It never happened because they built the first APT-P trailer car in record time, and it ran in POP-II as 'Lab Coach 8 - Pilot'.

[UP 4000]

Like Craig says, you can just pull them apart, section by section, and that means all the power and trailer cars and joint modules.

 

Do you plan to do anything about adding the other half coach worth of seats to the extra TC1s? And to be truly authentic you'd need to get rid of the tilt packs too, I doubt the passengers would live that blasting away right alongside them. 

 

But at one stage we were planning to install a Mk V tilt pack, an APT-P trailer car pack, under the floor of TC1, but you'd need to scribe an access hatch for it right underneath where the Mk II tilt pack is located now. It never happened because they built the first APT-P trailer car in record time, and it ran in POP-II as 'Lab Coach 8 - Pilot'.

 

Thanks Kit, I did look into doing the interiors, but lack of time and work it's never happened.

Ideas I had was firstly, getting apt-e spare interiors and joining them, but alas there were not available, 3-4 were only done and not available to buy, as it's not really a damageable part.

So looked at other coach interiors, but opted out, and then thought of a rubber moulding and resin kit to replicate the seating within the coaches, this is the option I will go for when I have time, at the moment doing no harm.

When I done the Disco Coach (don't know what I was thinking, still makes me chuckle) I butchered two interiors and used the two parts with the tilt pack and removed all fittings and used the HO interior of the Trix Entertainment Car which dropped in quite easily being slightly smaller.

So one coach does have full seating, quite honestly I don't know which one, maybe within Service Use's coach rake or TC-11 which is with disco coach, and after a re-shuffle of the display cabinets, new travel tubes, and Service Use repaired/beefed up over Christmas I can't remember what I've done with the pair of them, PC-3&4 parted ways with them and re-joined there coaching stock in the mighty 3 metre travel tube, freeing up the 4' one, they still may be in there,

[Fredashay]

Thanks for all your feedback (I gave both of you "Likes," UP4000 and MrTilt)!  Since the APT-E never entered revenue service, I'm not gonna worry about being uber realistic.  Like I said, I've left one train true to the prototype, and I want to run the 2nd train as a real passenger train and I just want to add several more coaches and not use the computer car; i.e. the consist will be: PC-1, a bunch of TC-1 coaches, and PC-2.  Since TC-2 is the computer car, I'll not be running it on the 2nd train. 

 

Look back through this thread?  Uhm, you do realise this thread is 171 pages long, eh?

 

Do i plan on adding coach seats to the interiors of the TC-1s?  No.  Since this is such a rare and expensive train, I don't plan to make any destructive modifications to them or even weather them.  I'm impressed at the detail that Rapido put into these trains as they are!

 

Get rid of the tilt mechanism to make the model more authentic?  No.  I'm not gonna try to remove, modify, or disable the tilt mechanism (I wouldn't even know how to begin to do that -- you're a braver man than I to even plan to make such changes to your train). 

 

Though I am tempted to take one of my extra TC-1 coaches and turn it into a cafe or dining car by removing a window or two (if only I could match that blue paint exactly). And I also saw a video where someone installed a disco lighting system in an APT-E coach, lol.

 

One of these days, I'd love to go to the NRM and learn more about the history of this train, though that picture book that came with my 2 trains was fascinating to read!

Edited February 11, 2018 by Fredashay

[Mr_Tilt]

Thanks for all your feedback (I gave both of you "Likes," UP4000 and MrTilt)!  Since the APT-E never entered revenue service, I'm not gonna worry about being uber realistic.  Like I said, I've left one train true to the prototype, and I want to run the 2nd train as a real passenger train and I just want to add several more coaches and not use the computer car; i.e. the consist will be: PC-1, a bunch of TC-1 coaches, and PC-2.  Since TC-2 is the computer car, I'll not be running it on the 2nd train. 

 

Look back through this thread?  Uhm, you do realise this thread is 171 pages long, eh?

 

Do i plan on adding coach seats to the interiors of the TC-1s?  No.  Since this is such a rare and expensive train, I don't plan to make any destructive modifications to them or even weather them.  I'm impressed at the detail that Rapido put into these trains as they are!

 

Get rid of the tilt mechanism to make the model more authentic?  No.  I'm not gonna try to remove, modify, or disable the tilt mechanism (I wouldn't even know how to begin to do that -- you're a braver man than I to even plan to make such changes to your train). 

 

Though I am tempted to take one of my extra TC-1 coaches and turn it into a cafe or dining car by removing a window or two (if only I could match that blue paint exactly). And I also saw a video where someone installed a disco lighting system in an APT-E coach, lol.

 

One of these days, I'd love to go to the NRM and learn more about the history of this train, though that picture book that came with my 2 trains was fascinating to read!

 

Nonononono, I didn't mean prevent the model from actually tilting, I meant to cut out the representation of the socking great hydraulic pack that sits in the middle of the floor of both Trailer Cars. I've outlined its position in this pic of TC1.

 

 

The thing was, still is actually, about the size of an Aga cooker and is waist high in reality. If a mythical all passenger TC1 was built it would have been right in the middle of the passengers, which is why we were thinking of installing an APT-P tilt hydraulics pack under the floor.

 

It was Craig who built the disco car, and the sound track is close to reality as I used to play music tracks over the intercom when we were on long positioning runs, but we didn't have any disco lights. 

 

I'm glad you liked the book that came with the models as I wrote a large chunk of  it. 

 

And if you wait a few years it's possible that E-Train will be back in York again if current plans come to fruition. It's a long way from anywhere at Shildon sadly, but it does look good in that big train shed. Just a pity it's in the wrong order and the Trailer Cars are the wrong way round! 

Edited February 11, 2018 by Mr_Tilt

[Fredashay]

Nonononono, I didn't mean prevent the model from actually tilting, I meant to cut out the representation of the socking great hydraulic pack that sits in the middle of the floor of both Trailer Cars. I've outlined its position in this pic of TC1.

 

 

The thing was, still is actually, about the size of an Aga cooker and is waist high in reality. If a mythical all passenger TC1 was built it would have been right in the middle of the passengers, which is why we were thinking of installing an APT-P tilt hydraulics pack under the floor.

 

It was Craig who built the disco car, and the sound track is close to reality as I used to play music tracks over the intercom when we were on long positioning runs, but we didn't have any disco lights. 

 

I'm glad you liked the book that came with the models as I wrote a large chunk of  it. 

 

And if you wait a few years it's possible that E-Train will be back in York again if current plans come to fruition. It's a long way from anywhere at Shildon sadly, but it does look good in that big train shed. Just a pity it's in the wrong order and the Trailer Cars are the wrong way round! 

 

OMG!  You're that Mr. Tilt?!?!  That explains a few things!  You must think I'm an idiot...  I'm honored that you replied to my original question :-)

But, again, I'd rather not take a scalpel to my train, not even the 2nd one that I plan to run in passenger service.  I'll just pretend that you did actually put the hydraulics underneath, and that that box in the coach is a vending machine, lol.   I might sacrifice one coach to make a dining car, but that's all.

Do you think that you'll ever give excursion rides in it, even if it's just for a click or two once or twice a year?

Oh, and here's the video of the disco party carriage...

[John ks]

Fedashay said  "Do you think that you'll ever give excursion rides in it, even if it's just for a click or two once or twice a year?"

 

I believe the answer to that question is NO,​ if I am mistaken I'm sure someone will correct me

 

My understanding is that when the APT-E was split into separate coaches for transport from York to Shildon that the cables joining the coaches were cut.

Replacing, repairing or splicing all these cables would be an electricians nightmare.

The turbines would need servicing & would replacement parts be available?

I suspect there would be a lot of hurdles to get it to rail worthy condition

To restore it to working condition as it was when it last run would I guess cost in the millions

As some one else said you then end up with a train with very limited seating & if you wanted to recover your costs then ticket prices would be astronomical

You could rip out the equipment in the lab car, move the tilt pack to under the floor & fill both coaches with seats

This would of coarse destroy a 1 off iconic rail vehicle

If you want to go through all 171 pages there is a lot of interesting information about the APT-e

 

Mr T Said "It's a long way from anywhere at Shildon sadly"

Last year when I visited the UK & stayed in York I did a day trip to Shildon by train

To me the distance didn't seam to be a problem. Could be where I'm from we perceive distances differently.

Got to go inside the APT-e, thanks to the staff at Sheldon

 

John

[Mr_Tilt]

Yes, I am THAT Mr_Tilt, how many of us are there? 

 

I'm on here not only as a modeller but also as a source of accurate information on a project that's been woefully under-described on one hand and that's been desecrated by an equally woefully ignorant media on the other. Me, evangelistic about APT? You BET I am! 

 

As those of you know who've heard my talks on APT, I can go on and on and on and on about it for HOURS even, just ask any questions may have and I'll try and answer them.

 

As John says, it would cost MILLIONS to get E-Train running again, plus we'd need in-house knowledge that we just don't have in the Support Group. It's lucky that my job was pretty all encompassing as far as the bogies and suspension were concerned as it helped a lot when we took the train apart to move it to Shildon. Sadly that was AFTER the clowns sawed the control and instrumentation cables apart.    While we do have a lot of knowledge on the instrumentation side in Malcolm and Barry, we're sadly lacking on the turbine, traction, electrical, braking and control sides, and we'd need all of those just to power it up.

 

The final nail in the coffin is that Network Rail would never agree to run it on the mainline as the Power Cars are out of gauge. They're the longest 'locos' that BR ever had and we needed Special Notices for every main line movement back in the 70s. Every time we went anywhere the route had to be carefully surveyed to make sure we didn't hit anything, and sometimes we did!

 

Just getting the two Power Cars across the ECML to the Thrall Works in 2004 to load them onto the road trailers was a MAJOR job, and needed lots of persuasion on our part before NR would let us do it. But at last I got to be 'Officer in Charge of the Train' for one short trip. 

 

And yes John, you do perceive distances differently from us Brits.    It was great meeting you at the ERM, and I'm so pleased you got to see the train itself later on your trip. 

Edited February 11, 2018 by Mr_Tilt

[UP 4000]

OMG!  You're that Mr. Tilt?!?!  That explains a few things!  You must think I'm an idiot...  I'm honored that you replied to my original question :-)

But, again, I'd rather not take a scalpel to my train, not even the 2nd one that I plan to run in passenger service.  I'll just pretend that you did actually put the hydraulics underneath, and that that box in the coach is a vending machine, lol.   I might sacrifice one coach to make a dining car, but that's all.

Do you think that you'll ever give excursion rides in it, even if it's just for a click or two once or twice a year?

Oh, and here's the video of the disco party carriage...

 

Oh god you found it,

I've just found her and TC-11, doesn't have the full seating so must be in the coach rake, It would be nice if Rapido released the blue paint for E-Train but what I did for Disco Coach and TC-3 & 10 was to use black insulation tape on the inside of the glazing to blank them out,  Looks o'k but would prefer them in the blue scheme.

[Mr_Tilt]

Oh god you found it,

I've just found her and TC-11, doesn't have the full seating so must be in the coach rake, It would be nice if Rapido released the blue paint for E-Train but what I did for Disco Coach and TC-3 & 10 was to use black insulation tape on the inside of the glazing to blank them out,  Looks o'k but would prefer them in the blue scheme.

 

It would have been even more helpful if the R&D Div had used normal BR Blue for the stripe! For some reason I just can't fathom out it isn't the same, and we can't blame outside contractors as the whole train was painted right there in the RTC! 

[Fredashay]

It would have been even more helpful if the R&D Div had used normal BR Blue for the stripe! For some reason I just can't fathom out it isn't the same, and we can't blame outside contractors as the whole train was painted right there in the RTC! 

 

Same here.  I'd like to be able to purchase a jar of that paint for when I make my "dining car."  But in the absence of "E-Train Blue" paint, I'll probably do the same thing and mask the inside of some of the windows with black electricians' tape. Besides, that's less destructive anyway.