Huntley & Palmers Factory Sidings about 1900

[edp2]

Hi

 

I've just come across this photo on the internet that seems to have a lot to offer this forum:

 

http://www.huntleyandpalmers.org.uk/ixbin/hixclient.exe?a=query&p=huntley&f=generic_largerimage_postsearch.htm&_IXFIRST_=92&_IXMAXHITS_=1&m=quick_sform&tc1=i&partner=huntley&text=horse&tc2=e&s=2JEuqZUFC0N

 

Click on View large image for a detailed view.

 

There's some great buildings connected by a long enclosed bridge.

 

On the left there appears to be a surface-mounted traverser. It looks like it should move from one standard gauge track across 2 narrow gauge tracks to another standard gauge track. Unless it's a trick of the light there appears to be no breaks in the second standard gauge tracks for the traverser to cross?

 

The traverser has bow-shaped rails to raise the wagon off the siding and what might be 2 lever-operated locking mechanisms to stop the wagons rolling-off.

 

The bow-shaped rails and the small-wheeled traverser would be difficult to model and how would the wagon be locked on? 

 

The man-powered narrow gauge tracks are something a bit different. There's another pair of them on the far-right of the photo. We would have to replace the men and the horses with a small engine or maybe a Faller road system vehicle with a buffer-beam attached?

 

Is that large pile of small crates on the back of a wagon? Higher height restrictions must apply within the private sidings if they are.

 

I could go on but the picture speaks for itself.

 

Hope you like it.

 

Ed

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/60811-boxfilebox/

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dava]

Railway Bylines had 2 good articles with aerial photos & track plan on this system, vol 19 nos 1_2

 

Dava

[The Stationmaster]

Interestingly it doesn't show up on the 40ft plan I have of the factory and it is dated 1903 (although it has very clearly been amended subsequently).

[PhilJ W]

The 'traverser' is a skid plate, for turning hand propelled wagons (it is narrow gauge only). Although the yard is paved up to rail level but it is only paved with rough cobbles and not stone setts.

[petethemole]

Their coal yard looks interesting too

http://www.huntleyandpalmers.org.uk/ixbin/hixclient.exe?a=query&p=huntley&f=generic_largerimage_postsearch.htm&_IXFIRST_=89&_IXMAXHITS_=1&m=quick_sform&tc1=i&partner=huntley&text=horse&tc2=e&s=2JEuqZUFC0N

[Kenton]

I didn't even realise that the Huntley Palmer factory was rail served - cue further investigation/curiosity

[Miss Prism]

Kenton - here's an 1898 map of the H&P complex.

 

 

[peter220950]

On the left there appears to be a surface-mounted traverser. It looks like it should move from one standard gauge track across 2 narrow gauge tracks to another standard gauge track. Unless it's a trick of the light there appears to be no breaks in the second standard gauge tracks for the traverser to cross?

 

The traverser has bow-shaped rails to raise the wagon off the siding and what might be 2 lever-operated locking mechanisms to stop the wagons rolling-off.

 

The bow-shaped rails and the small-wheeled traverser would be difficult to model and how would the wagon be locked on? 

 

 

Hope you like it.

 

Ed

 

 

 I do like it, a lot!

 

I think the '2 lever mechanism' is in fact a pair of scotch blocks with handles to stop the wagon rolling off the traverser ends? There are also a couple of what look like timber blocks which are pegging it into position on the far siding, it looks as if there are wheel flange marks in the faces that are showing.

 

If you study the photo closely you can see that of the 4 sets of carrying wheels the outer pair appear to be smooth, and thus able to roll across at track level, the inner pair are flanged, presumably to keep the whole thing guided, and the rails that these wheels run on are slightly higher than the rails they cross, to give room for the flanges, hence the need for a hump in the carrying tracks.

 

It's a fascinating piece of kit, and something I would love to incorporate into a model, the main problem would be that a loco probably wouldn't be able to run over it, so it would be down to the 'hand of god' to push wagons on or off.

 

The 'traverser' is a skid plate, for turning hand propelled wagons (it is narrow gauge only). Although the yard is paved up to rail level but it is only paved with rough cobbles and not stone setts.

 

I don't think so, it's about 16 ft long, the size of the up-stands wouldn't allow a narrow gauge wagon onto it, and why would it then go right across the standard gauge lines at the end, with a stop block to line the ramps up with the rails?

[Darwinian]

I remember always watching out for a glimpse of the Huntley and Palmer Fireless locos as we pulled into Reading General from the Redhil/Tonbridge line (Afraid I cannot remember Reading Southern). According to Wikipedia they were delivered in 1932 and kept working until 1969 (when I would have been 9). Some of the system is shown in the diagrams in the recent GWRJ articles on reading goods depot.

 

A bit of this system would make a great micro layout and the firelss locos should be reasonably straightforward to build (or is that naive!).

 

Adrian

[PhilJ W]

Their coal yard looks interesting too

http://www.huntleyandpalmers.org.uk/ixbin/hixclient.exe?a=query&p=huntley&f=generic_largerimage_postsearch.htm&_IXFIRST_=89&_IXMAXHITS_=1&m=quick_sform&tc1=i&partner=huntley&text=horse&tc2=e&s=2JEuqZUFC0N

Even more interesting paved surfaces (wood?).

[peter220950]

Hi

 

I've just come across this photo on the internet that seems to have a lot to offer this forum:........................................

 

Hope you like it.

 

Ed

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/60811-boxfilebox/

 

Damn you sir for planting impure thoughts in my tiny brain! You've wasted my afternoon, and probably most of the next week with you're picture of a traverser.

 

I couldn't resist having a go, as I was already looking at a quick minimum space industrial layout, so with a bit of copperclad,

 

 

and a smidgeon of N gauge rail

 

 

I've already got the deck started, and just need to fabricate rollers and cross rails to have the beginnings of something interesting to add to two of the sidings, - thank you!

 

I feel a new layout coming on.............

 

 

 

edit  to add link to H&P loco at

http://www.martynbane.co.uk/images/peckett/locos/832-peckett.jpg

 

and another traverser at

http://warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrms1211.htm

[edp2]

Thanks for all the replies They are very interesting.

 

The coal yard does appear to have a wooden surface, I like the way they've built up the height of the coal stacks by stacking the coal as if making a dry-stone wall. Scenes before H&S are much more interesting. At least in a model no-one will be crushed to death.

 

Back to the original photo. On the 1898 map there is a building to the right of the one marked Biscuit Factory that has a line over the tracks joining it to another building. I think this is the enclosed bridge in the photo.

 

Peter, that's a great bit of work, I look forward to you wasting the rest of the week finishing it of and letting us see it. Your photo of a traverser makes the operation much clearer. The design is a neater version of the H&P one.

 

Ed

[peter220950]

Peter, that's a great bit of work, I look forward to you wasting the rest of the week finishing it of and letting us see it.

 

Ed

 

Well it wasn't quite a week, I started by marking out a second piece of copper-clad for the main tracks and the lines which carry the traverser.

 

 

The traverser rails were next added, designed for using 00 wheels, with a 16.5mm spacing in the centre, I also decided to use flanged wheels throughout for the test piece.

 

 

These rails were then cut, with a slitting disc, at the intersections with the two main tracks

 

 

and the rails for the sidings were inserted, along with nicks for the traverser carrying wheels

 

 

Sections of angle and H section brass were then soldered together to form axle carriers,

 

 

and these were then cut to length and slots cut into the deck

 

 

and the axles were then soldered to the traverser deck

 

 

giving just enough clearance for a wagon on the deck, and providing a working traverser, though I didn't gap the pcb for electrical isolation.

 

 

For a 'finished' job it then requires the wheels boxing in and some cosmetic infil to the tracks. I haven't proceeded any further as although it works perfectly well it highlights a couple of problems that make it less than ideal for a working layout.

 

Firstly pushing wagons onto the traverser causes the same sort of buffer locking problems that tight curves cause, then it's almost impossible to hook up a wagon to pull them off the traverser, the whole set up is designed for horse or capstan shunting.

 

The exercise has been very interesting in understanding how these devices work, for a layout the conventional sunken pit type of traverser is obviously the way to go for hands free operation, i might finish it to form a static part of the Brewery Yard in our club layout, which has a small industrial line on a shuttle at one end.

 

Thanks again Ed for the initial thread, it's been an inspiring set of photo's, that have also given me some great ideas for my industrial dabblings.

[Donw]

Growing up living the other side of the river from Kings Meadow I remember the lines being shunted unfortunatly from the Kings Meadow side you could see much under the bridge which carried the main lines over. The fireless locos stayed within the H&P yard as far as I can remember it was usually one of the panniers that took things through. The fireless locos look rather like you didn't fix the chimney on properly.

Don

 

edit Ps despite rumours I am not old enough to remember the 1900s

[edp2]

That, Peter, is a very fine piece of work. Your Bournville layout reveals your modelling expertise. I hope you find somewhere to display the traverser whether working or static.

 

Ed

[BG John]

I've just been pointed to this topic, that I must have missed. My big brother did his apprenticeship at H&P, and was one of the factory maintenance managers when it closed. He arranged for me to drive one of the fireless locos just before they stopped working.
 
The photo this topic started with is the inspiration for one end of my new 7mm micro layout.