coachmann Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 (edited) The new LMS design 'Porthole' corridor composite coach from Bachmann arrived today. What can I say apart from WOW! If anyone is hesitating, hesitate no further. I pre-ordered and got an absolute snip at the price, but even at retail price this model remains darn good value for money. The D2159 60 ft corridor composite coach appeared in 1947 as the last expression of LMS design ideas. With a profile quite unlike previous LMS designs, its construction more or less established BR standard coach contruction methods, and so they were very significant vehicles. A few appeared in LMS maroon with BR insignia but the majority were turned out in BR carmine & cream livery as per the Bachmann models. This is the compartment side... Battery boxes are correctly placed on the corridor side, which is where I got my model wrong.... Roof views showing the Bachmann composite alongside one I built from etched brass. Roof vent positions are identical and while Bachmann has fitted hemispherical vents, the other has torpedo vents. Both are correct, in fact some were fitted with shell vents. It seems the LMS was using up parts from coaches damaged during the war.... Bachmann has made a decent representation of the LMS welded bogie.... The Bachmann coach sides correctly overlap the solebars slightly (sides were welded directly to the floor for added impact strength) and have also captured the rounded corners with the carmine & cream continuing around the corners. Door grab handles are the correct curly type..... The four trussrods are also there along with the welded strengthening fillets. The two centre compartments are correctly labelled 'No Smoking'.... The end profile with its steep tumblehome and roof corners are a delight to the eye. It is these two features that makes these coaches stand out from other LMS coaches in photographs. Bachmann has modelled the inverted 'V' emergency apparatus and suspended gangway connectors. For those who like variety, some coaches were built using up old fittings and had the normal stepped apparatus and scissor gangways (M24545M being an example).... Bachmann will probably have measured up a preserved example of a corridor composite and so have included a bulge in the end that contained a fire extinguisher. This is a later BR fitting and is probably more suited to BR maroon coaches.... Having looked at the Bachmann coach and realised how many mistakes I made on the one I built, I can thoroughly recommend this model. Larry G. Edited July 22, 2014 by coachmann 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefrk Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Hi Larry, sorry but people are finding a few things wrong. Bogies are a bit flat, flimsy and unable to be converted to EM and P4 unlike the really good Hornby bogie. Buffers undersize and 1.5mm too low... Checked with a height gauge. On the good side, the body and roof look very good as you say but let down by the bogies. Just my opinion. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Thanks for the review Larry. I have bought a couple of corridor 3rds at £34 each, which to me is excellent value as I did not pre-order any. With my ageing eyes, I doubt that I can focus down to 1mm so davefrk's buffer criticisms are of little concern to me. The models certainly look the part, but I will await my order and if I am blown over by the quality of the finish, I will invest in a few more of various configurations. Well done Bachmann. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Must the the first rtr coach to offer screw couplings in the add-on pack? And the flush glazing is superb too. They do ride very smooth over my points, though I only have about 18 feet to test on. As a matter of interest, does anyone know where the detail pack bits should be fitted? Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 On the layout storming through Greenfield.... 17 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 (edited) Hi Larry, sorry but people are finding a few things wrong. Bogies are a bit flat, flimsy and unable to be converted to EM and P4 unlike the really good Hornby bogie. Buffers undersize and 1.5mm too low... Checked with a height gauge. On the good side, the body and roof look very good as you say but let down by the bogies. Just my opinion. Dave. I'm sorry too, as since when were Hornby and Bachmann models reviewed on the basis of how easy they were to convert to EM or P4 gauges. Maybe its me, but I always assume folk in EM or P4 are modellers well used to adapting things to suit their needs. I have looked at the Bachmann bogies and they are narrow. They also have an internal metal frame that can be unscrewed and removed. I haven't tried it but it may be possible to to deepen the plastic axle holes and fit brass bearing, then perhaps EM and P4 wheels will fit in. On the other hand they might not! If I were into EM or P4, I would be mighty glad of these coaches and I would adapt them to run on my track pronto. Fitting alternative bogies : If one is into Em or P4, then I presume they won't be keeping the Bachmann couplings, so either remove or snip off the apparatus. Reduce the height of the bogie bolster moulding on the coach floor and screw on bogies of choice (assuming they have a top surface in line with the top of the sideframes). Edited July 9, 2014 by coachmann 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 Must the the first rtr coach to offer screw couplings in the add-on pack? And the flush glazing is superb too. They do ride very smooth over my points, though I only have about 18 feet to test on. As a matter of interest, does anyone know where the detail pack bits should be fitted? Stewart Detail pack contains:- Vac and seam pipes. to be fitted below the buffer planks. Corridor connection end doors. Steps. These fit at the RH end of the solebars and are diagonally opposite....(two holes in floor behind solebars). Dummy vac pipe connector to couple two coaches. Fits in NEM socket in place of Bachmann couplings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 (edited) Detail....BOGIES :- As mentioned earlier, the bogies have two inner metal frames that can be unscrewed. Each frame has axle bearings so the wheels run in metal bearing instead of plastic. There is a finger that reaches up through the floor so I presume this is something for the future to facilitate the fitting of lighting. The design of wheels and axles leads to this but the axle length is around 24mm..... EM gauge wheel fit between the side frames with some clearance. However, such wheels have the normal 26mm axles as fitted to most wheels from 00 to P4 and there is a real danger of punching through the axleboxes if drilling these out to take brass bearings. In my opinion fitting replacement bogies is the answer when converting to EM and P4. Bill Bedford does some neat LMS welded type 3D bogies which are compensated and sprung and require no assembly (I have standardised on them), and 247 Developments have cast whitemetal welded type bogie kits. Edited July 9, 2014 by coachmann Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 Details....RIDE HEIGHT : Yes the 'Porthole' coach does ride somewhat lower than the Hornby GWR Hawksworth coaches and the Hornby LNER Gresley coaches (as well as my metal coaches). It has to be said it is unusual for a RTR model not to have loads of daylight showing between bogies and superstructure and of course it is perfectly prototypical. I will look into jacking the body up on the bogies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zunnan Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I've had the chance to have a look at the bogies of my Portholes thus far received, where it was the apparent flimsiness of them which caused me to note one thing in particular affecting their ride height. Try it yourself, and lift the model slightly on the rails while watching the wheelsets, with mine there is a good 1mm or so of vertical play due to the loose fit of the axles in their bearings. It was an axle dropping out when lifting it from the packaging that caused me to notice this at first, and the subsequent light inward squeezing of the metal strip to stop this axle from dropping also caused the ride height to increase somewhat. There is certainly very little structural strength in the plastic of the bogies, so removing the fitted bearing in favour of opening the plastic bearings out to take longer axles will probably lead to problems, it all seems to come from the metal pickup assembly with the plastic merely holding this in alignment, not the best arrangement really. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefrk Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I'm sorry too, as since when were Hornby and Bachmann models reviewed on the basis of how easy they were to convert to EM or P4 gauges. Maybe its me, but I always assume folk in EM or P4 are modellers well used to adapting things to suit their needs. I have looked at the Bachmann bogies and they are narrow. They also have an internal metal frame that can be unscrewed and removed. I haven't tried it but it may be possible to to deepen the plastic axle holes and fit brass bearing, then perhaps EM and P4 wheels will fit in. On the other hand they might not! If I were into EM or P4, I would be mighty glad of these coaches and I would adapt them to run on my track pronto. Fitting alternative bogies : If one is into Em or P4, then I presume they won't be keeping the Bachmann couplings, so either remove or snip off the apparatus. Reduce the height of the bogie bolster moulding on the coach floor and screw on bogies of choice (assuming they have a top surface in line with the top of the sideframes). Larry, the first thing I said was 'Bogies are a bit flat and flimsy' which others have now agreed with. The comment regarding conversion I feel should be in a review as EM and P4 people also need that information. As an experiment I've tried a 26mm 'truck tuner' to form a proper cone bearing in the bogie but the axleboxes are just so flat and anaemic that the tuner was starting to make a mark on the face of the axlebox, no chance of drilling out for a bearing either as the measurement over the axlebox is a tad under 27mm. The metal strip can be removed and EM wheels will just fit but as mentioned above there is no-way of fitting brass bearings and the 'hole' in the plastic moulding is too large for a pinpoint axle. Incidently, the dmu bogies have a similar arrangement for pick-up but are wide enough to convert so what happened to these ones??? Don't you agree that the Hornby Stanier bogie is a far better looking, more detailed and stronger product and as an aside it is able to be converted to EM or P4 easily whether by accident or design. Yes EM and P4 people are capable of changing the bogies but in recent times bogies have been a good enough representation to be worth just changing the wheels but these new Bachmann ones are not. Zunnan and yourself have said about the low ride height but it isn't 1.5mm low, this is the height of the buffers compared to a buffer height gauge. Something is a wee bit out on these coaches beautiful as they and the bogie design is just not up to the standard of the rest of the coach. All the best Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 (edited) The coach was modified before our evening meal. First the bogie was removed to show the bolster. The green swivel restrictor part (in green was then cut away with a Kraft knife..... A 30thou washer was made from Plastikard to slip over the bolster pin (30thou would also do it), then the bogie screwed back in place.... With the body jacked up 20thou, the Porthole coach shown again with a Hornby Hawksworth coach and also a Bachmann LMS 'Jubilee' loco..... The unique profile of the Porthole compo is shown with an early shallow vent LMS Period III coach. Both coaches pretty well line up at gutter level now..... The coach with the body raised looks better. This has been a minimum exercise which took minutes to do (I still haven't painted the wheels black). Then the coach was put in a train of metal coaches and wizzed around the layout behind the Jubilee......Backwards as well through a complex of 24" radius points etc with the heavier coaches ahead of it. No derailments so the little conversion works. Edited July 25, 2014 by coachmann 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 (edited) Larry, the first thing I said was 'Bogies are a bit flat and flimsy' which others have now agreed with All the best Dave. Hi Dave, I agree the bogies are a little flimsy although the metal innards are the strong point and the plastic is purely cosmetic. The ride height is easily overcome as shown above. I mentioned earlier it is doubtful the bogies would take kindly to EM or P4 wheels on the 26mm axles. I have always been glad to be able to make use of RTR items and spend a bit 'doing them up' and I would have thought one accepted this more especially if adopting a gauge other than '00' The steps in the accessory pack that fit into two holes behind the solebars are only for static exhibits, as they prevent bogies from negotiating curves.... Edited July 9, 2014 by coachmann Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium finelines Posted July 10, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 10, 2014 I read this review because it was written by Larry and he said "wow". When it comes to coaches, in particular, if Larry says "Wow", I say "wow"! The "people" promptly started chipping away at this glowing review. Because the coach doesn't do what you want doesn't make it wrong. Surely, rather than wading in with the criticism of minor points, a thread in a modelling thread titled "improving Bachmann porthole coaches" would be more appropriate. Roger 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 I welcome the findings of "the people"*, Roger. Many eyes help build up the bigger picture :-) Looking at the combined review thus far, body looks a winner but I might want to swap bogies for some spares and modify the buffer position. Maybe one or two other mods like those fire extinguisher housings. It all looks fairly easy to fix, so it doesn't worry me much. Windows look great in the pics, don't look too prismatic and glazing bars seem to meet the perimeter rather than 'floating' as per other coaches. Hope they look as good in the flesh. * bit dismissive, don't you think? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium finelines Posted July 10, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 10, 2014 Who are "people" not "the people"? How many eyes? Roger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iak Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Easy now.... Dr Goddard has shown us the fruits and benefits of his knowledge. Like I have said elsewhere, excellent fettling material and now with a gold star to! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted July 10, 2014 Author Share Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) Gilding the Lilly so-to-speak, I dismantled the Bachmann composite this morning by gently prising the sides apart and lifting the body off the chassis lugs. 2mm was sawn off the end of the NEM socket and the Bachmann couplings secured in the sockets with Loctite.... The plastic corridor connections were pulled off very easily without damage and I glued on my 'LG' type flexible corridor connections made by Modellers Mecca. Then the inside end wall was painted 'wood' colour...... First Class seats were painted with Revell acrylic Aqua Color Blue No.56 and the third/second class seats painted Carmine No.36..... Bogies were wafted over with matt black as was the coach roof. The roof is removable (held on with lugs) but I do not recommend its removal as the end water-filler pipes are securely glued inside handrail knobs. Far simpler to mask off the coach sides before spraying the roof. Halfords spraycan matt black would do the job nicely if carefully applied.... This coach now takes its place with my other coaches on Greenfield. As I have chosen the period 1953 (again), the Bachmann blood & custard looks suitably dowdy for a working coach. In fact I have mixed some paint to match the Bachmann colours just for my own stock.... Edited July 25, 2014 by coachmann 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium finelines Posted July 10, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 10, 2014 I was not criticising Larry, only the wish to of some to be negative. I just wish I had his skills! My only complaint I have is I'm going to pay a fortune for the post 1958 maroon ones that I want. Until I stopped reading reviews on here I allowed myself to be talked out of buying perfectly good representations of the prototype. Roger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 I would also love to have Larry's skills, but what he has demonstrated above is not too difficult for anyone. Unscrewing a couple of screws and gently prizing off the body from the underframe is not beyond my capabilities, nor is changing the colour of the roof or painting the interior of the compartments. What he has demonstrated is the value of adding a few finishing touches. I received my porthole corridor 3rds this morning and they are superb. What really wowed me was the glazing effect. Having not bought many passenger vehicles recently, I was unaware of the advances reached with flush glazing. I can honestly say that these are the best coaches that I have ever owned, and although I am satisfied with some of my home-made Ian Kirk Gresleys, there is not a chance that my efforts will ever match these 'portholes' for quality. I will be buying more of these in this livery, and also in maroon if/when they appear. If I am bankrupted as a result I don't care; because I will go down happy. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 I have tried to take a close-up photo of the porthole coach buffered up to a Hornby corridor 3rd in maroon. Unfortunately, they are only standing on a cardboard box and are taken with my mobile phone - so are not quality by any means, but they seem to match up pretty well to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScRSG Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Nobody yet mentioned the colours? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Colours? Without a time machine, I am not getting involved in that hot potato. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 I have not followed the anticipatory thread for these coaches so please forgive me for being late to the party. The metal part of those controversial bogies look very like the parts fitted to Bachmann dmu bogies for current collection. Was it ever contemplated that the portholes would be lit? Another point occurring to me is that although bristling with drawbacks said bogies look to be of scale overall width. As others have probably noticed, many other available bogies are a trifle tubby and some with cast sideframes positively obese. It's not an easy choice. From Larry's review I think that as a P4 worker I would junk the Bachmann bogies and find replacements in the event of my desiring a Porthole. It's what we would have done before rtr bogies started to improve! Finally, some alarmism: what if Bachmann use this seemingly awful design under the Hawksworth auto trailer? Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 10, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 10, 2014 Finally, some alarmism: what if Bachmann use this seemingly awful design under the Hawksworth auto trailer? Chris We search out our stockpiles of 20 thou Plasticard? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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