French Loco Used During Channel Tunnel Construction

[Summer_Saturday]

Not quite sure whether to put this in UK Prototype, Overseas Prototype or Help, but I've made my choice!

 

During construction of the Channel Tunnel, there was a French loco that I have seen a picture of in Dollands Moor that was given Railfreight Distribution markings but retained its SNCF livery. I presume it came through as a test loco.

 

I am looking for details of it as I have only ever seen one picture and that was a few years ago. It definitely looked like the ones shown here in Burkitt's gallery: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?app=gallery&module=images&section=viewimage&img=13520, but I don't know if it was specifically a BB15000 class loco. If it was then I think one is available in the Hornby continental range.

 

So, does anyone have any info on this loco (running number, class, time period, what it was used for, pictures etc) please?

 

Update: managed to find a bit of info at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNCF_Class_BB_22200, but if anyone has any more info to add to it, especially pictures of them with RD markings, I would appreciate it.

[Fat Controller]

The BB22200 were used initially to provide a staff shuttle between the two terminals after construction was complete, but before commissioning was completed. The first had been painted up by 1992, when it appeared at FreightConnection ate the NEC. Two of them used to sandwich a single coach, which ran to-and-fro at the beginning and end of the working day. I never rode on it, as I didn't join ET until 1995, but my wife used it sometimes. No idea of loco numbers, but the driver was a Spanish ex-SNCF driver called Daniel- he's been retired for at least ten years, but his daughter still works with us.

As Wikipedia says, there were nine locos modified for use during the early days of the Channel Tunnel- five were fitted with TVM430 captors(TTU), and four weren't (TU). This meant that the locos, which worked in pairs, not only had to run around the trains at Dolland's Moor and Frethun, but had also to run around one another, so that the TVM-fitted loco was leading. It was perhaps fortunate that there weren't many trains at the time. On these workings,the drivers were either RFd or SNCF personnel- the very first commercial working was driven by a former neighbour called Andrew Parfitt. His son had a party piece which was to say 'My dad drives a BB vingt-deux-mille deux cent', which was pretty impressive for a two year old.

Once the 92s had arrived, and had bedded in, the SNCF locos went back to mainline work. The TUs went into the general pool, but the TTUs still work on the various TGV lines around France, hauling test trains and also working SNCF's few 220kph freights. These run between terminals in the Paris region and destinations in the Toulouse and Avignon areas. As far as I am aware, these five still retain yellow ends.

[Summer_Saturday]

Thanks for that Fat Controller; definitely more info there than I would have got from a book!

[phil-b259]

As far as I am aware, these five still retain yellow ends.

 

Unlikley, as SNCF have a well known dislike of the yellow front ends, beleiving it unnecessary, unsightly and generally geting in the way of decent loco liveries. They only grudingly acepted it because they are mandatory for UK main line Diesel & Electric traction. Certainly when they redeployed some of their Eurostars on domestic duties a few years ago the first thing to go was the yellow nose. By contrast the regional Eurostars they have recently hired to further bolster their domestic TGV service retain their yellow noses as they remain in the ownership of Eurostar UK ltd.

[MUTTLEY]

Unlikley, as SNCF have a well known dislike of the yellow front ends, beleiving it unnecessary, unsightly and generally geting in the way of decent loco liveries. They only grudingly acepted it because they are mandatory for UK main line Diesel & Electric traction. Certainly when they redeployed some of their Eurostars on domestic duties a few years ago the first thing to go was the yellow nose. By contrast the regional Eurostars they have recently hired to further bolster their domestic TGV service retain their yellow noses as they remain in the ownership of Eurostar UK ltd.

 

 

All of them had the yellow ends removed for re-entry to SNCF service.

 

Here are a couple of photos, showing the RFD emblems and the difference in front ends between the "TU" and "TTU".

 

 

 

Cheers, Ron.

[NGT6 1315]

Interestingly, French TOC Euro Cargo Rail's class 186 electrics have actually been given yellow front panels once again: Click. These TRAXX type engines can operate in Belgium, France and Germany.

[Summer_Saturday]

Thanks all for the info. Those are just the sort of pictures I was looking for.

[Fat Controller]

Unlikley, as SNCF have a well known dislike of the yellow front ends, beleiving it unnecessary, unsightly and generally geting in the way of decent loco liveries. They only grudingly acepted it because they are mandatory for UK main line Diesel & Electric traction. Certainly when they redeployed some of their Eurostars on domestic duties a few years ago the first thing to go was the yellow nose. By contrast the regional Eurostars they have recently hired to further bolster their domestic TGV service retain their yellow noses as they remain in the ownership of Eurostar UK ltd.

The original 25kV centre-cabs, which worked on the Nord and Est Regions from the mid-1950s to the mid-1990s, had large expanses of yellow on the cab-ends (and the loco noses), though SNCF generally think that loco headlights are sufficent. The BB36000 that work into Italy have had a red 'moustache' painted on each end to 'aid visibility', even though FS don't seem to have such things on their own locos.....

SNCF were also dismissive of hi-vi clothing for staff working near the line until recently. SNCF standard-issue was a reflective belt, slightly wider than a cat collar, which tended to disappear below the 'ventre du patron' (beer-belly) of the workers. However, they have now started issuing hi-vi waistcoats and parkas.

[NGT6 1315]

even though FS don't seem to have such things on their own locos.....

 

 

They do - at least on locos wearing the XMPR livery. In the case of the E656, for example, the buffer beam is all red: Click. Also note the moustache on the ETR500 set next to it.

[Burkitt]

I just stumbled on this topic, and thought you might be interested in another photo of the Eurotunnel BB22200s. It's on the Railfan Europe site - this is a direct link to the image http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/fr/electric/dual/22200/beton/22370-22405/bb22399.jpg, but you can't link to the page it appears on for some reasin. The photo was taken in Calais on 20th February 1994 by Jan Agersten.

 

Paul

[Mike at C&M]

For those of you who would like a model of these BB22200 locos, LS Models have a pair in their production schedule for 2011. They will of course be to 'HO' scale

[jamie92208]

Just as an aside These locos had the nickname of 'Yellow submarines'. I actually managed to cop one of them at Dollands Moor. There was also another french loco used during the fitting out process. This was a french 4-6-0 steam loco that was used to test the fire and smoke alarms on the French third of the tunnel. It ran in tender first to the cross over and then came chimney first out of the tunnells mouths at Frethun. Apparently the British HSE wouldn't allow a similar test on this side. A merchant navy would have been very appropriate. There are some photos of the steamer emerging from the tunnel. I believe that Eurotunnel also hired one of the so called flat irons I think class 13000 and did see it once at Frethun but don't know if it worked into the tunnel. I also ha ve vague memories of a class 319 Thameslink un it going into the tunnel on our side with a specially miodified pantograph on some sort of test.

 

Jamie

[Fat Controller]

Just as an aside These locos had the nickname of 'Yellow submarines'. I actually managed to cop one of them at Dollands Moor. There was also another french loco used during the fitting out process. This was a french 4-6-0 steam loco that was used to test the fire and smoke alarms on the French third of the tunnel. It ran in tender first to the cross over and then came chimney first out of the tunnells mouths at Frethun. Apparently the British HSE wouldn't allow a similar test on this side. A merchant navy would have been very appropriate. There are some photos of the steamer emerging from the tunnel. I believe that Eurotunnel also hired one of the so called flat irons I think class 13000 and did see it once at Frethun but don't know if it worked into the tunnel. I also ha ve vague memories of a class 319 Thameslink un it going into the tunnel on our side with a specially miodified pantograph on some sort of test.

 

Jamie

The 'smoke test' was more of a publicity effort than anything else, IIRC- the Tunnel had already been carrying national freight trains, 'marche-a-blanc' freight shuttles and the Royal Eurostar by the time it ran, which was the day after Inauguration. The loco had previously worked a Paris-Amiens-Calais special.

ET actually bought the 'flat-iron' BB13044, which was overhauled and had its traction motors isolated- it was used to provide 'hotel power' during the commissioning of the shuttles, rather than using one of ET's own locos. In recent years, it has been given to a preservation site near Bethune:-

http://www.cmcf-oignies.com/locoelectrique.htm

Another type which worked through the tunnel during the commissioning (post-construction, pre-commercial service)

days was an A1A-A1A 68000 diesel electric, which dragged a Eurostar set through for publicity shots and subsequent staff training.

The Thameslink units ran some distance into the tunnel and set back on to the UK terminal as part of a pre-opening railtour- another important mod was that the toilets were locked out....

[alcazar]

One of those 22200 locos appeared later at an exhibition in the UK. It carried the name "La Tour du Pin". 22399?

[Ron Ron Ron]

Moving forward in time, I recall seeing photos in Rail and Modern Railways of a number of continental mid-cab locos in use during construction of CTRL Phase 2; IIRC at the temporary works depot by the Thames tunnel works.

There's a yellow one shown in this photo... Thames Tunnel site (top left).

I presume the Blue one in that photo is a UK Class 14 ?

 

Can anyone shed some light on this?

 

.

[Fat Controller]

Moving forward in time, I recall seeing photos in Rail and Modern Railways of a number of continental mid-cab locos in use during construction of CTRL Phase 2; IIRC at the temporary works depot by the Thames tunnel works.

There's a yellow one shown in this photo... Thames Tunnel site (top left).

I presume the Blue one in that photo is a UK Class 14 ?

 

Can anyone shed some light on this?

 

.

The loco in the photo is a Class 14- two were used to shunt Beechbrook Farm during CTRL1, then one went to the site near Dartford. I believe one suffered serious damage to either engine or transmission whilst at Beechbrook Farm. Though I saw many 95ers at Landore and elsewhere during my teenage years in South Wales, the first time I saw one working was at Beechbrook Farm when going to pick my wife up. I almost drove into a big yellow truck..

[Ron Ron Ron]

The yellow one Brian, is that a class 14 too ? I suspected the Blue one was.

I distinctly remember the photos in the railway mags at the time. I'm fairly sure they named the continental types and who they were on hire from and to.

[Revolution Mike]

The yellow one Brian, is that a class 14 too ? I suspected the Blue one was.

I distinctly remember the photos in the railway mags at the time. They named the continental types and who they were on hire from and to.

 

Difficult to tell but I know that Eurotunnel have some Mak and Schoma bo-bo shunters. The MaK is this one:

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/fr/private/passenger/Eurotunnel/ET_0001_Biel_21_02_2008_Th__Stolz.jpg

[Fat Controller]

The yellow one Brian, is that a class 14 too ? I suspected the Blue one was.

I distinctly remember the photos in the railway mags at the time. They named the continental types and who they were on hire from and to.

The yellow one's German- sorry I can't remember the type. Beechbrook Farm also had loads of continental wagons of various types. One of the favourite bits of kit of the chap in charge of tracklaying was the Autoballasters- he wished he'd taken them to TGV-Est. Much more finesse than the levers (not even wheels) used on SNCF ballast hoppers. Strange to go past Beechbrook these days and see it restored to agriculture- certain parties tried persuading KCC to allow them to retain the site for freight, but got knocked back.

[Ron Ron Ron]

The yellow one's German- sorry I can't remember the type. Beechbrook Farm also had loads of continental wagons of various types. .......... Strange to go past Beechbrook these days and see it restored to agriculture- certain parties tried persuading KCC to allow them to retain the site for freight, but got knocked back.

Thanks anyway Brian. :icon_thumbsup2:

It's all a bit wooly now, but I seem to remember a caption under a photo of a line of these, describing them as German locos, on lease from a German company to the French infrastructure company - who's name escapes me now.

I guess these German locos had made the furthest operational incursions of any Continental loco into the UK from the tunnel, up until the Eurotunnel Class 0 's appeared at SPI during the snow.

 

 

Difficult to tell but I know that Eurotunnel have some Mak and Schoma bo-bo shunters. The MaK is this one:

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/fr/private/passenger/Eurotunnel/ET_0001_Biel_21_02_2008_Th__Stolz.jpg

Sorry, no the ones I'm asking about aren't the Eurotunnel rescue locos - Class 0 - but locos that came across the channel to take part in construction of HS1 (formerly known as the CTRL). :icon_thumbsup2:

 

 

Does anyone else have details?

 

.

[Fat Controller]

Difficult to tell but I know that Eurotunnel have some Mak and Schoma bo-bo shunters. The MaK is this one:

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/fr/private/passenger/Eurotunnel/ET_0001_Biel_21_02_2008_Th__Stolz.jpg

They've been rebuilt and re-engined since that photo was taken, and no longer need to work with the awful Scrubber wagons (which caused more problems than they solved)

The Schomas, which were rebuilt from narrow-gauge locos used during construction, are only allowed to operate on their own within possessions, as they don't always register on track circuits, and aren't fitted with TVM.

Two have been lengthened and fitted with inspection platforms to allow them to be used on catenary works.

Two locos which no-one's mentioned were a pair of small German-built shunters, of a design similar to that used by the Wermacht during WW2- these had been used on the UK terminal by Balfour-Beatty, who subsequently took them to their on-track plant workshops at Ashford. Here they remained for a decade or so, but seem to have disappeared recently.

[brushman47544]

One of those 22200 locos appeared later at an exhibition in the UK. It carried the name "La Tour du Pin". 22399?

I too have just stumbled on this thread. As already said, once finished on Channel Tunnel work, the BB22200s returned to normal use with SNCF. All are still in service, but their use differs considerably.

 

22379, 22380, 22399 and 22403 are allocated to SNCF Infra (allocated to Villeneuve depot in the southern Paris suburbs) and work on test trains over classic electrified lines across France. They retain the "Beton" livery they bore when on CT work (without the yellow fronts).

22401 and 22405 are allocated to SNCF FRET, are also allocated to Villeneuve and in Beton livery.

22400, 22402 and 22404 are allocated to the TER sector and work passenger trains in the Rhone-Alps (primarily Chambery/Dijon/Grenoble) and PACA (Marseille/Nice) regions. 22400 is allocated to Chambery and in Beton livery, 22402 and 22404 are in the current EnVoyage passenger livery, are multiple working fitted and allocated to Marseille.

 

The names carried are:

22399 Mormant

22400 Montigny en Ostre

22401 Moulins

22402 St Dié des Voges

22403 Neuves Maisons

22404 Les Pavillons sous Bois

22405 Villiers sur Marne

 

The name "La Tour du Pin" is carried by 22317, a long time Marseille VFE (sort of long distance passenger sector) loco.

[The Stationmaster]

Moving forward in time, I recall seeing photos in Rail and Modern Railways of a number of continental mid-cab locos in use during construction of CTRL Phase 2; IIRC at the temporary works depot by the Thames tunnel works.

There's a yellow one shown in this photo... Thames Tunnel site (top left).

I presume the Blue one in that photo is a UK Class 14 ?

 

Can anyone shed some light on this?

.

 

 

The yellow one might be of Germanic origin - I can remember something from the time about a foreign loco being involved but can't recall any details.

[Taigatrommel]

It was an ex DB V100... I can't remember whether BR211 or BR212. Available in H0 from, well, everyone!

[alcazar]

I too have just stumbled on this thread. As already said, once finished on Channel Tunnel work, the BB22200s returned to normal use with SNCF. All are still in service, but their use differs considerably.

 

22379, 22380, 22399 and 22403 are allocated to SNCF Infra (allocated to Villeneuve depot in the southern Paris suburbs) and work on test trains over classic electrified lines across France. They retain the "Beton" livery they bore when on CT work (without the yellow fronts).

22401 and 22405 are allocated to SNCF FRET, are also allocated to Villeneuve and in Beton livery.

22400, 22402 and 22404 are allocated to the TER sector and work passenger trains in the Rhone-Alps (primarily Chambery/Dijon/Grenoble) and PACA (Marseille/Nice) regions. 22400 is allocated to Chambery and in Beton livery, 22402 and 22404 are in the current EnVoyage passenger livery, are multiple working fitted and allocated to Marseille.

 

The names carried are:

22399 Mormant

22400 Montigny en Ostre

22401 Moulins

22402 St Dié des Voges

22403 Neuves Maisons

22404 Les Pavillons sous Bois

22405 Villiers sur Marne

 

The name "La Tour du Pin" is carried by 22317, a long time Marseille VFE (sort of long distance passenger sector) loco.

 

 

Thanks for that, you seem to have an interest in, and be quite knowledgeable about, French Railways?

 

I too have an interest. Have you seen the photos of the locos in store at Rouen Sotteville Triage? Over 160 at the last count, and others apparently at other locations, all due to a downturn in freight traffic.