RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted July 24, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 24, 2014 youre right but Dave couldnt possibly comment either way. you dont produce a 71 and not do a run of E5001. You don't produce a 71 and not scan E5001. For which the NRM might not unreasonably request a commercial involvement. Let's accept Dave's always reliable word, be grateful for the announcement and await possible developments with a certain running number Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted July 24, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 24, 2014 (edited) A friend only recently finished building a model of one of these so some one was bound to announce a ready to run one!! I can see Star Lane now having more than one running on it in future. Edited July 24, 2014 by roundhouse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 I spent some time last week searching for a Silverfox one and noting with slight frustration that Silverfox no longer have them listed and DC kits had sold out of the bodies.........................funny how things work hence my delighted reaction Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 so are we now looking at a completed range of southern region electro-diesels if all goes to plan with the 71/74 and 73? is that the southern sorted now or are there any other mainline locos that could follow? any obscure types to scupper my thinking ? im wondering/hoping/frothing/wishing/dreaming that those last few fish to be shot at in the bottom of the barrel are the missing AC locos and EMUs....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Not my cup of tea personally, but I shall watch the kickstarter campaign with fascinated interest Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 so are we now looking at a completed range of southern region electro-diesels if all goes to plan with the 71/74 and 73? is that the southern sorted now or are there any other mainline locos that could follow? any obscure types to scupper my thinking ? im wondering/hoping/frothing/wishing/dreaming that those last few fish to be shot at in the bottom of the barrel are the missing AC locos and EMUs....... Well there are the three Bullied booster locos, which ran into BR days. Given the way our Southern colleagues keep banging on about Merchant Navy kettles I suspect these may be off radar to them, but given the three locos managed to share two body designs, they would probably be more attractive to the Danes who seem to have some form of obsessive-compulsive disorder to model every kind of freak diesel/electric they can, so it'll be either the Bullied electrics or Kerosene Castle from them soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted July 24, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 24, 2014 The boosters also had coat hanger power mode and used it in places as unknown to many these days as Balcombe sidings. That's two entirely different designs for three locos, not just a slide in the tool. "Limited geographic appeal" doesn't alway seem to cut it any more. Stranger things have happened. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Dave, a very interesting announcement. Not being overly familiar with the specifics or Kickstarter beyond what it is, what are the benefits that we would get for investing, eg Do we get a share of future profit from this model? Do we get a discount on future versions of the model we may buy over and above the first batch? Do we simply get the model(s) to which we sign up at the advance order price at the start and that's it? A good initiative that deserves decent support. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 The exact terms of the Kickstarter will depend on who is running it. You do indeed the model you order at the advanc order price. Anything above and beyond that are at the discretion of the Kickstarter. The real advantage of a Kickstarter loco is not so much in getting discounts or freebies, it is that it allows the production of prototypes which may be of marginal commercial appeal. Any model needs to sell a minimum number of units to cover its R&D costs and break even. With most of the numerous and popular classes of loco covered, manufacturers need to look at the slightly rarer beasts. The difficult question is how to tell if a particular prototype is popular enough to sell in the volumes required to make it commercially viable (typically around 1000 units if you want to have a price that does not make your modeller's license more expensive than a pilot's license ). By subscribing in advance via kickstarter, it gives the manufacturer the confidence they need to go ahead with production. It also provides up-front cash to help fund the development (important if you do not have the deep pockets of Bachmann and need to manage your cash-flow). It also means that they can tailor their production run to the number of Kickstarter subscribers. We often hear of modellers lamenting that they cannot find a new model in their required livery beceause they have all been snapped up on pre-order. Conversly, we have seen certain items over-produced and sitting in the bargain bins of the big box shifters. Subscription-based modelling avoids both these pitfalls by matching supply to demand. Similar subscription-based approaches seem to be common in the US and Australia but have not really been tried before in the UK. I think that over time, this will become a common way to get more unusual prototypes produced. All that is required is the confidence of the (rather conservative) british modelling community to subscribe in advance rather than wait for a box to appear on a shelf. Using Kickstarter is a good way to help this as it is a well establish platform with a good reputation (over $1 billion of projects funded so far). It also protects the subscribers in that no money is debited until the minimum order threshold is reached. If not enough people sign up to make a project viable, the money never even leaves your account. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 Hi mate, I couldn't have put it better than Matt if I'd tried. It's my intention to produce this model, but funds don't permit at present, as cash flow is tied up ( as you can probably imagine). By kick starting this model, it gets made quicker and the modeller who subscribes will get it cheaper with running numbers that probably won't get done when normal production starts ( probably 12 months after the Kickstarter sign ups get theirs to give them a bit of exclusivity). I'll also be sending out special numbered certificates to those that subscribe, to give it more exclusivity. Cheers Dave 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Hi mate, I couldn't have put it better than Matt if I'd tried. It's my intention to produce this model, but funds don't permit at present, as cash flow is tied up ( as you can probably imagine). By kick starting this model, it gets made quicker and the modeller who subscribes will get it cheaper with running numbers that probably won't get done when normal production starts ( probably 12 months after the Kickstarter sign ups get theirs to give them a bit of exclusivity). I'll also be sending out special numbered certificates to those that subscribe, to give it more exclusivity. Cheers Dave Where do I sign up, please? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Downendian Posted July 24, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 24, 2014 Oh - a potential for a class 74? I'd certainly be interested in a class 74, 71s were gone by the mid-1970s I only ever saw them derelict at Hither Green. Class 74s - a bit longer lifespan, and a common sight at Waterloo and Clapham junction, regular 1970s spotting venues. Would a similar scenario for a 74 operate Dave? You know it makes sense - I know there's no scanning option available here but not being armed with prototype details, what were the differences between a 71 and a 74 (the latter was without the pantograph for starters). Surely not that significant? Class 74s 74 005/010 at Waterloo, 9th September 1977. Neil 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted July 24, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 24, 2014 what were the differences between a 71 and a 74 (the latter was without the pantograph for starters). Surely not that significant? Different roof due to the removal of the pantograph and to allow for diesel engine exhaust and cooling. Different body side grilles again due to the change from straight electric to electro-diesel Also I believe changes to the undercarriage again arising from the change of traction in order to accommodate a diesel fuel tank. The rebuild was quite significant. Dave has already suggested that slides in the tool should permit a 74 to be offered at some future time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 With regards the funding. If I want say two models do I have to pay for two kickstart packages or is it just the one package with enough people signing up and then just pay for any more models that you want? If you get my drift. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 With regards the funding. If I want say two models do I have to pay for two kickstart packages or is it just the one package with enough people signing up and then just pay for any more models that you want? If you get my drift. The way Kickstarter works is that you need to make a "pledge" (i.e. a subscription) for each "reward" (model) that you wish to purchase. So if you want 2 locos, you pledge twice. Kickstarter does not support paying for extras outside its own system (even postage which cannot be listed separately). The reason for this is that Kickstarter charge the project organiser a fee which is a percentage of the total funds raised, therefore it is in their interest to ensure all business is conducted through the site itself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWeatheringMan Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Picture courtesy of Ben Jones The OO gauge class 71 is another much asked for locomotive. What makes this model so special is that this model will be attempted to be financed by crowd sourcing through a ‘Kickstarter’ campaign. This will allow, for the first time, a UK OO model railway locomotive to be funded up front by the customers who will receive a model for their faith in signing up to this project. By crowd sourcing the finance for this model I am able to start work almost immediately with the laser scanning (Thanks to the NRM) and cad/cam production, whereas otherwise it would take up to 2 years rather than the possible 1. The model will feature a coreless motor, heavy chassis, directional lighting, etched grilles where possible, separate wire handrails, DCC 21 pin decoder socket with a large space for a sound speaker, sprung buffers, and of course alternate slide details for the class 74 at a later date. OO71-001 E5003 BR Green with small yellow warning panel OO71-002 E5004 BR Green no small yellow panel OO71-003 71009 BR Blue with full yellow ends OO71-004 71013 BR Blue with full yellow ends RRP IRO £139.95 Hi, Whilst I imagine this project has been looked into properly it should be pointed out that we have seen similar projects before, particularly for a wagon, and that one fell through due to various reasons. Its a brilliant idea in the right hands and I wish Dave every success - particularly as i'll be subscribing for two class 71 and two 74. Now Dave where do I send the money. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 Hi mate, The Kickstarter will go live on Sunday evening this week ( I will confirm obviously), and press releases will go out to the mags etc when I have a link to the Kickstarter page. Tell your friends as I need 1000 sign ups ( you can order more than 1 if you want by the way). Cheers Dave 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWeatheringMan Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Different roof due to the removal of the pantograph and to allow for diesel engine exhaust and cooling. Different body side grilles again due to the change from straight electric to electro-diesel Also I believe changes to the undercarriage again arising from the change of traction in order to accommodate a diesel fuel tank. The rebuild was quite significant. Dave has already suggested that slides in the tool should permit a 74 to be offered at some future time. Hi, It is well recorded that what seemed like a good idea at first - making further use of now under used straight electric locos - ended up actually costing more for the rebuild than had brand new locomotives been built. The costs spiralled during the rebuild due to many problems. The finished result was very poor as a traction unit and avaiability was one of the worst of any BR loco at times. Engine room fires were common due to insufficient cooling and I know from personal experience that driver's hated the 'big electro-diesels' - much prefering a less powerful JA or JB (class 71/0 / 71/1) if possible - or better still a 'crompton' (class 33). None of which makes them any less attractive as a model of course. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Colin Posted July 24, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 24, 2014 Great news - count me in! And for a class 74 as and when it's announced. 71s were pretty rare on the SWD, but if I ever build another London 3rd-rail layout, it'll fit in nicely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
miles73128 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Hi mate, The Kickstarter will go live on Sunday evening this week ( I will confirm obviously), and press releases will go out to the mags etc when I have a link to the Kickstarter page. Tell your friends as I need 1000 sign ups ( you can order more than 1 if you want by the way). Cheers Dave This is great news! Cant wait. I'll be ordering several on Sunday. I guess it's too early, but E5003, Green SYP, will it have the red body line or not? I guess E5004 NYP will have? Thanks in advance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Just out of interest and not wanting to take the tread off piste, if people wanted to kickstart a "north of the Thames electric" would you be looking at a 1000 sign-ups for that, and would you be able to accommodate it in your workplan if it reached that number? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 Just out of interest and not wanting to take the tread off piste, if people wanted to kickstart a "north of the Thames electric" would you be looking at a 1000 sign-ups for that, and would you be able to accommodate it in your workplan if it reached that number? Hi mate, Lots of variables, but work on an individual price for 1000 people, and tooling plus unit cost for those must reach that figure or be less than. I have plenty of production capacity available at the moment in my factory's. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted July 24, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 24, 2014 I have plenty of production capacity available at the moment in my factory's. Would I be utterly out of order in suggesting you might "flog" some of that capacity, in the short term only, to famous rivals, in order to improve your liquidity? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 Lol, wouldn't that be a hoot! :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 So I know which one would be most suitable for my needs, does anyone know when the 71's received the SYWP's? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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