OO Gauge class 71 Electric Locomotive

[railfan76]

Good morning all,

 

couldn't resist and ordered the 71 a few days ago and received it the day before.

Apologies if the following has been discussed in full before:

I learned that some people do have problems with the loco being noisy and coggy. Mine does also seem quite noisy and a little coggy. While I thought it would be gear-related in the first place (sounds grinding or scratching)  I found out that the noise came down to a decent level after DCC'ing the model. So I'm assuming that the noise is motor-related. Tried to find a video of the running model on YT where the motor sound could be clearly heard but to no avail.

I'm not completely sure whether the model is working properly or if I should consider sending it back. 

I'd be very happy if someone could share his thoughts on that.

 

Cheers

 

Lars

[Ian Hargrave]

Good morning all,

 

couldn't resist and ordered the 71 a few days ago and received it the day before.

Apologies if the following has been discussed in full before:

I learned that some people do have problems with the loco being noisy and coggy. Mine does also seem quite noisy and a little coggy. While I thought it would be gear-related in the first place (sounds grinding or scratching)  I found out that the noise came down to a decent level after DCC'ing the model. So I'm assuming that the noise is motor-related. Tried to find a video of the running model on YT where the motor sound could be clearly heard but to no avail.

I'm not completely sure whether the model is working properly or if I should consider sending it back. 

I'd be very happy if someone could share his thoughts on that.

 

Yes this sounds familiar.Some examples seem noisier than others. Whatever else you do it is essential to lubricate thoroughly and then run it in

Cheers

 

Lars

[mikesndbs]

Good morning all,

 

couldn't resist and ordered the 71 a few days ago and received it the day before.

Apologies if the following has been discussed in full before:

I learned that some people do have problems with the loco being noisy and coggy. Mine does also seem quite noisy and a little coggy. While I thought it would be gear-related in the first place (sounds grinding or scratching)  I found out that the noise came down to a decent level after DCC'ing the model. So I'm assuming that the noise is motor-related. Tried to find a video of the running model on YT where the motor sound could be clearly heard but to no avail.

I'm not completely sure whether the model is working properly or if I should consider sending it back. 

I'd be very happy if someone could share his thoughts on that.

 

Cheers

 

Lars

 

 

Hi

 

 

You can hear mine here, yes bit of noise but I found using Hob-e-lube gear grease on the linkages and gear towers solved this more or less.

Also a wee bit via the lube holes under the bogies.

I don't think the motor will be making much noise given that its a coreless one, the noise seems to be from the linkages and great trains.

 

Good luck

[Opelsi]

Put a few different chips in mine. and ran on my very short programming track.

 

• Bachmann 36-557 (latest incarnation) - growled [insufficient functions to light the headcode panels]
• Dapol Imperium - very smooth [all light functions possible]
• Gaugemaster DCC27 - fairly smooth [insufficient functions to light the headcode panels]

 

Admittedly this was only a quite test and I did not play with any of the CV settings.

 

Would have like to have tried a TCS chip if I had had a spare as I find these very smooth.

 

Went with the Gaugemaster as I thought the headcode panels were slightly too transparent under backlighting anyway (mine being modified) so not over bothered about this function.

The Dapol Imperium is already earmarked for my Maroon Dapol Western 'Western Lady' and the Gaugemaster DCC27 was quite good in BR Blue 71009.

 

I need to see if I can adjust the brightness of the cab lights with CV adjustment - can anyone advise?

 

Hope this helps! 

 

Simon

[railfan76]

Thanks for your help and hints, gentlemen.

 

I've oiled and ran the model in for about 20 minutes in each direction as per instructions.

 
Tried making a short video of my model running on DCC (ESU Lokpilot 4). Notice the random scratching sound - haven't heard that in Mike's video.
 
https://youtu.be/1u87fvjnH3Q

 

Decoders I've tried so far:

• Lenz Silver+ : not happy with slow running, jerky,  all functions worked, moderate scratching noise
• Doehler&Haas DH21A-4: very good slow speed performance, only has 4 functions so headcode boards didn't work, moderate scratching noise
• ESU Lokpilot 4: acceptable slow speed performance, moderate to low scratching noise, all functions operational

At present, I'd recommend the Lokpilot albeit I normally tend to use Doehler&Haas chips. Can provide settings if it helps but still unsure whether to keep the model or not.

 

Kind regards

 

Lars

[Mike Storey]

I admit I do not have one (I am waiting for the Class 74) but would offer that I have found you need to run a loco in for around an hour before deciding whether you have a problem.

[DJM Dave]

Thanks for your help and hints, gentlemen.

 

I've oiled and ran the model in for about 20 minutes in each direction as per instructions.

 

Tried making a short video of my model running on DCC (ESU Lokpilot 4). Notice the random scratching sound - haven't heard that in Mike's video.

 https://youtu.be/1u87fvjnH3Q

 

Decoders I've tried so far:

 

• Lenz Silver+ : not happy with slow running, jerky,  all functions worked, moderate scratching noise
• Doehler&Haas DH21A-4: very good slow speed performance, only has 4 functions so headcode boards didn't work, moderate scratching noise
• ESU Lokpilot 4: acceptable slow speed performance, moderate to low scratching noise, all functions operational

At present, I'd recommend the Lokpilot albeit I normally tend to use Doehler&Haas chips. Can provide settings if it helps but still unsure whether to keep the model or not.

 

Kind regards

 

Lars

Hi Lars,

2 things that immediately spring to mind, and I think some of your other points are covered elsewhere in the thread.

 

Jerkiness is almost certainly ‘back EMF’ fighting against the coreless motor and needs turning off.

It’s worth noting that as the inside of the body has a big area open directly above the mechanism, it will act like a plenum chamber and amplify sound disproportionately to the noise level made by the mechanism.

 

I’ve tested a few options and build a solid ‘cube’ of plastic card and fitted it in place of a sound speaker and the noise quietens considerably, but as others have pointed out with enough running in it will quieten down a lot more.

 

Hope this helps

Cheers

Dave

[sparaxis]

Hi Lars,

2 things that immediately spring to mind, and I think some of your other points are covered elsewhere in the thread.

 

Jerkiness is almost certainly ‘back EMF’ fighting against the coreless motor and needs turning off.

It’s worth noting that as the inside of the body has a big area open directly above the mechanism, it will act like a plenum chamber and amplify sound disproportionately to the noise level made by the mechanism.

 

I’ve tested a few options and build a solid ‘cube’ of plastic card and fitted it in place of a sound speaker and the noise quietens considerably, but as others have pointed out with enough running in it will quieten down a lot more.

 

Hope this helps

Cheers

Dave

 

I haven't fitted a decoder to my 71 (yet) but I found that the Beattie/O2/Austerity were easily dealt with by "backing off" the various CVs for back EMF. It wasn't necessary to turn it off completely.

 

Basically the CVs that deal with the "hardness" of response to feedback, and the "momentum" need to be reduced to half or less than the standard settings. (I am not referring to acceleration/deceleration CVs here, but specifically those related to motor control.)  The "Back EMF reference voltage" can be adjusted to control the maximum speed.

 

Interestingly enough, I found that the Bachmann motor fitted to some of their steam locos has similar issue. Jerky slow speed running and high minimum speed. Reducing these CVs made a world of difference.

 

Alan

[lapford34102]

Having acquired a Kernow weathered version with an eye of the future i had an idle moment to have a good look at it. Whilst an very good model the factory weathering, with me at least, jarred somewhat. Reading back through this thread there have been a couple of comments about it and I couldn't find any photo's matched the level of weathering though they may well exist.

So I wondered if the weathering could be "reduced" so tried some Tamiya thinners on a corner and found it came of relatively easy. Anyhow after a bit of effort  got most of it off plus there was no effect on the totem or numbers  though the green looked a bit blotchy after. masked the glazing and coat of matt varnish plus a little additional weathering based on a photo in the 71/74book and here's the result.

 

 

 

Just thought it would be worth sharing.

 

Cheers

Stu

[Judge Dread]

Having acquired a Kernow weathered version with an eye of the future i had an idle moment to have a good look at it. Whilst an very good model the factory weathering, with me at least, jarred somewhat. Reading back through this thread there have been a couple of comments about it and I couldn't find any photo's matched the level of weathering though they may well exist.

So I wondered if the weathering could be "reduced" so tried some Tamiya thinners on a corner and found it came of relatively easy. Anyhow after a bit of effort  got most of it off plus there was no effect on the totem or numbers  though the green looked a bit blotchy after. masked the glazing and coat of matt varnish plus a little additional weathering based on a photo in the 71/74book and here's the result.

 

 

Class 71-1.jpg

 

Just thought it would be worth sharing.

 

Cheers

Stu

Stu, your handiwork looks good to me, although, if I may suggest, the pantograph contact area could do with a clean.

Regards, John 

Edited February 24, 2018 by Judge Dread

[Oldddudders]

Stu, your handiwork looks good to me, although, if I may suggest, the pantograph contact area could do with a clean.

Regards, John 

 

Good point, John. In the green days when freight was still busy most of these locos would have used OLE frequently, so the pan would get a polish. Later, as yard use dwindled, maybe less so. 

[bazza.]

Greetings from sunny Napier in New Zealand. Even at this late date I have manage to purchase a pair of Class 71 model locomotives, E 5004 and E 5019.

 

While looking on line for the external working condition of these locomotives, I came across a photo of a Class 71 in the green livery, but with only a thin yellow stripe on the front of locomotive. Was the livery of this locomotive E 5012 as shown on colour rail slide DE 1570 unique to this locomotive, or was this type of yellow warning panel commonly used on other Class 71 locomotives.

 

From an aesthetic point of view, I have never been a great fan of yellow warning panels, but the reduced size of this one looked particularly attractive.

 

Barry 

Edited March 26, 2018 by bazza.

[slilley]

This is a subject I covered in some detail in my recent book on the Class 71s and 74s.

 

These are the known small yellow warning panel variations.

 

Table 3. HA locomotives Yellow Warning Panel Variations – A Summary

 

Locomotive No. Yellow Warning Panel Type

E5001 2ft 10ins deep by 9ft wide, with square top corners, set just below the handrail.
E5012 1ft 9ins deep by 8ft wide with rounded upper corners, set just below the handrail.
E5008
E5009
E5011
E5014
E5017
E5021 2ft 6ins deep by 8ft just above the buffer beam
E5018
E5022 3ft by 6ft. A rectangle just above the centre of the buffer beam
E5023 Full yellow front carried 6 inches around the cab sides.

 

Best wishes

 

Simon

[mikesndbs]

Hi all, where are we with the class 74?

[Budgie]

Is there a fix for this sort of thing yet. I ran mine yesterday, and it derailed in quite a lot of places. I'm getting fed up with it, to be honest.

 

 

Hi,

 

I don't know how to fix it yet* but I think its related to friction between the bogies and the rest of the loco.

 

My DJ Models loco throws it self off 3rd radius curves on my test track, most often when the room is warm. The bogies are a little bit reluctant to turn on my loco when the loco is sitting on a table but freer when the loco is upside down.

 

*I think I've spotted something - the sandbox is very close to the front valance when the loco is sitting properly as opposed to being handled. When the train is moving forward the bogie will move forward a fraction of a millimetre on its pivot due to the driving wheels pushing the bogie forward. When the loco goes over a slight rise or bump this friction will be exaggerated (because the wrap around valance is swept backwards).

 

No wonder the DJ Models 71 looks the part - it may have scale clearances in places.

 

When I've got the time I'll do a few circuits with the 71 and then carefully take a tiny bit off the inside corner of the valances with a needle file and see if that improves things.

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

[mikesndbs]

Is there a fix for this sort of thing yet. I ran mine yesterday, and it derailed in quite a lot of places. I'm getting fed up with it, to be honest.

 

 

 

I took out the spring and coupling mechanism and it stopped derailing, no good of course if you are using it

[Gwiwer]

My 71 made its first trip under power this month after a long time on the shelf.  It managed an hour or so running laps of the Twickenham & District Club's test track pulling a varied assortment of stock.  No derailing occurred though it was, as expected, on the slow side.

 

DJ models have had close clearances before.  I had issues with the 52s.  Tiny amounts of moulding flash, barely visible to a naked eye, rubbed between bogie and body when the detail parts were applied.  The leading coupler shank had to be completely removed in order to clear the inside of the valance which, of course, is no problem because the coupler was not required there.  I haven't tried using the coupler-in-slot valance.

 

Full credit to DJ for taking things as far as can be done within reason and scale.  It's unfortunate all round that sometimes things are taken just a gnat's whisker too far for some of us some of the time.  I look forward to receiving my 74s in the fullness of time.

[JSpencer]

Is there a fix for this sort of thing yet. I ran mine yesterday, and it derailed in quite a lot of places. I'm getting fed up with it, to be honest.

 

 

 

I spent ages sorting out the layout (it was getting old and had undlations). Every loco works fine on it without derialing even the complex and very fine Bullied diesel but getting these 71s (I had 2) to round a circuit (there are 3 on the layout) without it coming off somewhere (there are several spots)  is impossible.  These machines have no down play, the bogies are stiff as boards, the gear tower is located to the rear and not the middle and the fine scale flanges only compound the issue.

I swapped one for a Hornby and it could not be more contrasting - that romps over everything.

 

Powerwise, the DJ 71 is fine for my needs which is a 6 rake Pullman, the speed and pulling power is all that is required for my needs.

[TRAILRAGE]

Had this issue myself. It was my Father who only discovered the reason my model was derailing on my layout. Annoyingly I have up  to 4ft radius curves which was causing the most issues. Nothing else derailed just my Blue 71.  Strangely the Green Model hasn't had this issue.

What we noticed was the inside front wheel would go straight on at the curve. I tried packing the inside of the track out with some thin card but it made no difference, so he put it under the outside Rail and it stopped derailing.  I couldn't for the life of me figure out why but it appears as even though I thought my track was pretty well laid it wasn't. I'm also lucky in the fact that there is no Ballast or scenic down yet as thanks to work and life in general, I just don't get time to spend on the layout anymore.

 

The sections it derailed on were slightly lower on the outside Rail so when the Loco passed over it would dip very slightly towards the outside Rail causing the inner wheel to lift and go straight on. I hadn't noticed it as its just the bogie itself. After doing this I ran it round light engine and with a 40 wagon train in both directions and both tracks  at various speeds through the crossovers as well with no derailments.

 

To say I'm relieved is an understatement and at least if it does start again the fix would appear to be simple. 

 

Hopefully this may help others who have had this issue.

 

Cheers Trailrage

[Phatbob]

I'm happy to report that our fleet of DJM 71s got a thorough "running in" at Trainwest last weekend on Star Lane.  No issues with the running of any of them.  PECO code 75 track and Modelex controllers for the record, if anybody's interested.

[Staffordshire]

    Have just read through all of this topic, brilliant.  I shall be phoning Kernow Models tomorrow to hopefully purchase ....

 

    How about the attached rake of MARC  models 'Night Ferry' coaches behind a weathered example .....  give the  'West Countries' a break !!

[woodenhead]

Have just read through all of this topic, brilliant. I shall be phoning Kernow Models tomorrow to hopefully purchase ....

 

How about the attached rake of MARC models 'Night Ferry' coaches behind a weathered example ..... give the 'West Countries' a break !!

If you want weathered green then Kernow, if you want pristine blue then Rails of Sheffield Edited July 8, 2018 by woodenhead

[Ian Hargrave]

Have just read through all of this topic, brilliant.  I shall be phoning Kernow Models tomorrow to hopefully purchase ....

 

    How about the attached rake of MARC  models 'Night Ferry' coaches behind a weathered example .....  give the  'West Countries' a break !!

A word of caution for a moment here.The gearing on this model does unfortunately inhibit scale speed performance capabilities.

It will haul your rake of CIWL but slowly..My GA Hattons version will at max.achieve an equivalent of 45 mph with load of 8 Hornby Pullmans plus van.It will creep brilliantly but Crepello ....she ain't.More suitable for slow speed shunting duties or freight and parcels duty.My other DJM 71 is exactly the same....but noisier.

 

Consider the Hornby version for what you require.Its performance is excellent,in all respects.

[Andrew F]

That MARC rake would probably weigh in at over 5kg; they are hefty beasts.

[stewartingram]

A word of caution for a moment here.The gearing on this model does unfortunately inhibit scale speed performance capabilities.

It will haul your rake of CIWL but slowly..My GA Hattons version will at max.achieve an equivalent of 45 mph with load of 8 Hornby Pullmans plus van.It will creep brilliantly but Crepello ....she ain't.More suitable for slow speed shunting duties or freight and parcels duty.My other DJM 71 is exactly the same....but noisier.

 

Consider the Hornby version for what you require.Its performance is excellent,in all respects.

So a coreless motor really is core-less then?

 

Stewart