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Dapol Maunsell Coaches in N


Chris Higgs
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By comparison, the same Scouser establishment are offering pre-orders on the 4-car set of Dapol Maunsells at £72. That makes the Dapol coaches around 60% of the Farish ones on a price-per-coach basis.

 

 

Slightly off topic I know, but it seems that this 4-car set claims to be numbered as Set 450, which was formed of Maunsell Restriction 1 stock. Is it really the case that Dapol are making R1 stock, they don't look like it in the CAD images.

 

Chris

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Slightly off topic I know, but it seems that this 4-car set claims to be numbered as Set 450, which was formed of Maunsell Restriction 1 stock. Is it really the case that Dapol are making R1 stock, they don't look like it in the CAD images.

 

Chris

 

Yes, the Dapol stock is R1. The brake vehicle on the CADs does not have the flattened section where the luggage and guard's comparments are.

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Yes, the Dapol stock is R1. The brake vehicle on the CADs does not have the flattened section where the luggage and guard's comparments are.

 

Well, it used to have the recessed brake section.

 

post-1605-0-28755800-1406493445_thumb.jpg

 

Is there a link to a more updated CAD?

 

Chris

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Well, it used to have the recessed brake section.

 

attachicon.gifpost-1-0-34498300-1342534549.jpg

 

Is there a link to a more updated CAD?

 

Chris

 

Strange - That CAD is for an R4 brake. I have seen a CAD for a R1 type brake elsewhere and when I went to look for it again it had disappeared. I could have sworn the 'Set' was listed on the Dapol 'Launches' page for the Maunsells, it is not there. From what is listed there now, they are producing two each of 6-compt 3rd brake, third, first and composite. If they are R4 low-window stock then in SR days these were all loose stock apart from the third brakes (all 4 of them), 5 thirds and 7 firsts that were made up into Central Section sets 469 and 470.

 

There must be EP samples around as they are in 'In decoration sample' stage. Has any one any pictures of the EPs so we can put this discussion to bed once and for all? If Dapol are producing R4 stock then the set that certain retailers are advertising will be well wrong...

Edited by talisman56
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The other frustration with the Maunsell stock is that the initial release is SR livery no sign of Br liveried stock. Never mind, suppose it gives more time to save up for the pile I want!! Hopefully with the brake comp to follow.

 

Back to Graham Farish, I was hoping that they would be announcing the missing Bulleid Brake composite, never mind!

 

Best wishes

Simon

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There must be EP samples around as they are in 'In decoration sample' stage. Has any one any pictures of the EPs so we can put this discussion to bed once and for all? If Dapol are producing R4 stock then the set that certain retailers are advertising will be well wrong...

The EPs can be seen on page 38 of Dapol's current catalogue.

 

http://www.ness-st.co.uk/pdf/Dapol%202014-15%20Catalogue%20N%20gauge%20section.pdf

 

There is also a shot of the brake on the Hattons website.

 

https://hattonsimages.blob.core.windows.net/products/2P-012-001_3080214_Qty1_cat.jpg

 

I am not really up on SR rolling stock so I will leave it to others to judge whether the coaches represent R1 or R4 stock.

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The Dapol Maunsell coaches are Restriction 4 and the same as those initially produced by Hornby (I was in procession of some of the first cad images).

The simple way to tell is firstly the inset side at the brake area and the guards ducket. Neither would be present on restriction 1 stock which was a continuous flat bodyside with no tumblehome or guards ducket.

 

It does appear that Dapol have got their set numbers and type mixed up somewhere along the line.

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Having seen the EP pictures in the Dapol Catalogue scan linked above, they certainly look like R4 stock. Which begs the question as to whether the 'Set 450' will be made out of this stock or some proper R1 stock. If not the latter, a certain establishment will receiving a cancellation of a certain pre-order...

Edited by talisman56
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Having seen the EP pictures in the Dapol Catalogue scan linked above, they certainly look like R4 stock. Which begs the question as to whether the 'Set 450' will be made out of this stock or some proper R1 stock. If not the latter, a certain establishment will receiving a cancellation of a certain pre-order...

In conjunction with Graham_Muz's input, I would be very suprised if Dapol is working on R1 stock as well as R4 stock. More likely this is a numbering issue.

 

Given that these models are still at the decoration stage, there may be time to change the set number as it has not yet started production. We need to give Dapol feedback and let them know if there is a problem.

 

I do not have access to any of the Gould books so the info I have is a bit sketchy, please can anyone suggest suitable 4-car sets based on the restriction 4 stock?

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I have been having a look and I do not think that the R4 low-windowed stock was formed into 4-car sets.

 

As far as I can tell, I think it was formed into 3-car sets (BTK-CK-BTK) for the Waterlool - WoE trains. Sets 390 - 399 and 445 - 448 seem to me to be correct although I would welcome any corrections or confirmations.

 

I think you could also do the central sets 469 and 470 with the vehicles Dapol have announced but as these were 8-car sets, their popularity might be a bit limited.

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Maunsell Low Window Restriction 4 in Southern Lined Olive Green - applicable period 1925-1938. Per Gould and King:

 

Diagram 2001 eight-compartment Third: numbers 769-778 (built Eastleigh 7/27-8/27), 783-832 (Eastleigh/BRCW/Metropolitan 3/28-7/28), 2349-55 (Ashford/Eastleigh 12/26-6/27).

D.2102 six-compartment Third Brake: nos. 4048-4051 (Eastleigh 12/26-2/27).

D.2301 seven-compartment (1st/3rd) Composite: nos. 5137-5146 (Eastleigh 7/26-10/26), 5147-5150 (Metropolitan 8/28-9/28).

D.2501 seven-compartment First: nos. 7208-7227 (Eastleigh/Midland 6/27-11/27), 7665-7674 (Ashford/Eastleigh 12/26-3/27).

 

Of the above, the following were formed in sets, created from new unless otherwise noted:

 

CKs 5137-5146 were formed into 3-sets 390-399, the other vehicles being a pair of D.2101 four-compartment Third Brakes (in the 3214-3233 number range).

CKs 5147-5150 were formed into 3-sets 445-448, the other vehicles being a pair of D.2101 four-compartment Third Brakes (in the 4063-4066 number range).

FKs 7218 and 7219 were formed in sets 206 and 207 in 1931; 7211-7213, 7215, 7225, 7230-7231 and 7675-7676 were formed in sets 244-247, 430, 329-330 and 241-242 in 1933; 7216 and 7222 were formed in sets 248 and 327 in 1936. All these 'new' sets were otherwise formed of high-window stock. 7227 was condemned with fire damage, 8/36.

 

Set 469 (London-Worthing service): formation BTK-TK-TK-FK-FK-FK-TK-BTK, using 4048/2351/2350/7667/7665/7666/2349/4049.

Set 470 (London-Eastbourne service until 1928, then Worthing): formation BTK-TK-FK-FK-FK-FK-TK-BTK, using 4050/2355/7674/7673/7672/7671/2354/4051.

 

469 was reduced to 6-cars in 1933, 7666 (to loose) and 7667 (to set 430) being removed; 4049 was replaced by 2789 (a D.2113 high-window 1935 stock BTK) in 1945 due to war damage.

470 was reduced to 3-cars in 1933, all of the TKs and FKs (all to loose) being replaced by 5656 (a D.2301 high-window 1929 stock CK). 7672 and 7674 were formed in sets 202 and 250 in 1936.

 

The only complete sets we can compile from the stock that Dapol are producing are 469/470, in their initial formations, and only 469 after 1933 until 1944.

 

Anyone care to speak with Dapol?

Edited by talisman56
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I have been having a look and I do not think that the R4 low-windowed stock was formed into 4-car sets.

 

As far as I can tell, I think it was formed into 3-car sets (BTK-CK-BTK) for the Waterlool - WoE trains. Sets 390 - 399 and 445 - 448 seem to me to be correct although I would welcome any corrections or confirmations.

 

I think you could also do the central sets 469 and 470 with the vehicles Dapol have announced but as these were 8-car sets, their popularity might be a bit limited.

 

The WoE sets had the earlier diagram 2101 four-compartment brakes, so not even those.

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The only complete sets we can compile from the stock that Dapol are producing are 469/470, in their initial formations, and only 469 after 1933 until 1944.

 

Anyone care to speak with Dapol?

 

 

I would suggest that you should forwarding the info in your post, I would mark it for Joel and Andy's attention. Plus post on Facebook that you have noted this inconsistencies.

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I would suggest that you should forwarding the info in your post, I would mark it for Joel and Andy's attention. Plus post on Facebook that you have noted this inconsistencies.

 

Question asked on Dapol Facebook page...

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Indeed technically only the 8 coach sets 469/470 can be made from the coaches as being initially produced. This is identical to Hornby's first release in 00 and therefore has the same limitations.

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The WoE sets had the earlier diagram 2101 four-compartment brakes, so not even those.

 

Indeed I said somewhere once before that someone should do a 3 car set with low window 4 compartment brakes. These ended up on the S&DJR which I rather expect lots of people like to model.

 

Dapol's choice of 6 compartment low window brake thirds is very odd, although not unique - they also did the very uncommon all-first Gresley when a composite would have been more representative. And some of the Farish Stanier types were as rare as hens teeth.

 

There ware in fact six protoypes in total of the Dapol brake - two brake seconds were built for boat trains that were identical - and I really mean second here, which did appear in boat trains even though the rest of the railway stock had only first and third. This means there is actually is a single four car set you can (almost) represent with the Dapol stock they are making. The formation is BSK+SK+FK+BSK, with numbers 4481+7669+4484+4482, used for the Newhaven boat train. The set had no number, and actually was five cars, with the remaining coach being a Pullman first. (oh, yes please Dapol if you are thinking of making those).

 

Chris

Edited by Chris Higgs
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Indeed technically only the 8 coach sets 469/470 can be made from the coaches as being initially produced. This is identical to Hornby's first release in 00 and therefore has the same limitations.

 

I guess releasing a 4 car set numbered as set 469 would not be too bad. That was reduced to six cars at some point, and so people could buy two extra cars to make up the full complement if they wished.

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Probably wildly optimistic but is the 6-comartment brake close to the brake composite at all? The Hornby brake compo looks like the Dapol CAD for the 6-compartment brake.

 

http://www.Hornby.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/r/4/r4341b.jpg

 

http://grahammuz.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/Dapol-compartment-brake.jpg

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Probably wildly optimistic but is the 6-comartment brake close to the brake composite at all? The Hornby brake compo looks like the Dapol CAD for the 6-compartment brake.

 

http://www.Hornby.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/r/4/r4341b.jpg

 

http://grahammuz.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/Dapol-compartment-brake.jpg

 

IIRC the only significance difference is simply due to the two first class compartments nearest the brake end being slightly larger than the other four third class ones. Thus when looking from the side, the composite version has a slightly smaller van area compared to the straight brake third vehicle.

 

In theory by the careful application of the "cut and shut" technique it might be possible to insert extra bits between the compartments and shorten the van area to suit.

 

Back in the 70s & 80s a model manufacturer could well have got away with using the same bodyshell for both with only the printing being altered - but standards have moved on and these days any attempts to do the same would be a suicidal move by the company concerned.

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Probably wildly optimistic but is the 6-comartment brake close to the brake composite at all? The Hornby brake compo looks like the Dapol CAD for the 6-compartment brake.

 

http://www.Hornby.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/r/4/r4341b.jpg

 

http://grahammuz.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/Dapol-compartment-brake.jpg

 

The two inner compartments on the BCK are 10.75" wider than the other four, resulting in a brake compartment 21.5" shorter. In N scale thats about 1.8mm and 3.6mm - noticeable? I wouldn't wear it...

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IIRC the only significance difference is simply due to the two first class compartments nearest the brake end being slightly larger than the other four third class ones. Thus when looking from the side, the composite version has a slightly smaller van area compared to the straight brake third vehicle.

 

In theory by the careful application of the "cut and shut" technique it might be possible to insert extra bits between the compartments and shorten the van area to suit.

 

Back in the 70s & 80s a model manufacturer could well have got away with using the same bodyshell for both with only the printing being altered - but standards have moved on and these days any attempts to do the same would be a suicidal move by the company concerned.

 

Well both Bachmann (in OO) and Dapol (in N) still turn out a Collett CK which is imaginary.

 

Dapol should have done the Maunsell BCK in the ifrst place. In fact, they should have done any brake other than the one they did...

 

Chris

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Well both Bachmann (in OO) and Dapol (in N) still turn out a Collett CK which is imaginary.

 

Dapol should have done the Maunsell BCK in the ifrst place. In fact, they should have done any brake other than the one they did...

 

Chris

The same comments were made around the time of Hornby's initial release of their Maunsell stock. However given up till that point Southern modellers had been fobbed off with Collett coaches painted in olive, a proper model of a Maunsell coach was welcomed with open arms - even if strictly prototypical sets couldn't be formed from the initial batches. In time Dapol will hopefully expand their range just as Hornby did although to a certain extent that does depend on the perceived popularity of the first release - which as with Hornby will depend on not only the alternative options but also the availability of super detailed SR models in N gauge.

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