hayfield Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 So as thoughts now turn to trackbed - how wide is a question that springs to mind. It obviously has to be greater than the track and to allow for ballast and a little more for attaching/blending landscape. But should there be an allowance for a cess or edge to the ballast? Is 75mm enough? Looking at photos of the prototype it appears that sometimes ballast just spills into the long grass at the edge in others there is a clear cess of varying width. Going by that loading gauge diagram it works out as a minimum of 46mm for ballast and +4mm for the cess either side. Kenton Looking good, re track bed go to Templot, do a piece of plain track and add the trackbed function which also has a cess pit either automatically or just one additional click Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted August 3, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 3, 2014 So as thoughts now turn to trackbed - how wide is a question that springs to mind ...... by that loading gauge diagram it works out as a minimum of 46mm for ballast and +4mm for the cess either side. Hi Kenton, Those dimensions are a bit tight. A typical formation width below the ballast for single track is 15ft, or 60mm in 4mm/ft scale. The cess width is very variable, but a typical width would be about 2ft-6in, or 10mm each side in 4mm/ft scale. That makes a total of 80mm. As John says Templot can draw the track with these lines each side, as above. Click the geometry > trackbed edges > menu items. The 1:20 slope in the diagram refers to the formation top, for drainage. The slope on the ballast shoulders would be typically about 1:1.6, i.e. 1.6 horizontal, 1 vertical. So for a ballast depth of say 15" the shoulder width would be about 2ft (8mm). That makes the top ballast width at sleeper level about 11ft, or 44mm. You may wish to reduce these dimensions by 6" (2mm) to correspond with the shorter 8ft sleepers in 00 (instead of 8ft-6in). edit p.s. The above dimensions are typical for bullhead and jointed flat-bottom single track. Modern CWR (long-welded) track uses much deeper ballasting, and a correspondingly wider formation to accommodate the ballast shoulders. regards, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted August 3, 2014 Author Share Posted August 3, 2014 Martin thanks for that - Should I assume those dimensions are for 4mm (as in P4) rather than (4mm as in OO) Peco Track My dimensions were based on the loading gauge image posted in the "standards topic" and have to admit most of it has now been cut and is well on its way to fitting. But the discussion is of benefit to others not so far advanced. I'm still debating the use of cork underlay and a defined cess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 I'm still debating the use of cork underlay and a defined cess. In the absence of guidelines, I've decided not to bother Unless it's freshly laid track most of it has probably sunk and has weeds growing through it anyway... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted August 3, 2014 Author Share Posted August 3, 2014 In the absence of guidelines, I've decided not to bother Unless it's freshly laid track most of it has probably sunk and has weeds growing through it anyway...It is just that I don't want to hear from the command station: "what's that rumbling sound?" "Oh, that'll be the 4:15 vibrating round Kenton's Curve." No cess means more ballast width. Anyway for most of its length it is embankment, so a cess might not be appropriate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 If baseboard noise from my modules offends anyone I will gladly provide some cotton wool for their delicate ears. Besides, if I crank up my DCC sound stock then nobody will hear any baseboard noise anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 It is just that I don't want to hear from the command station: "what's that rumbling sound?" "Oh, that'll be the 4:15 vibrating round Kenton's Curve." No cess means more ballast width. Anyway for most of its length it is embankment, so a cess might not be appropriate. Kenton You are more likely to stop more sound by filling the empty void under the baseboard, however using a stiff foam underlay with latex glue will benefit the former. By the way, a great idea doing a circular layout, often fancied doing the same. The baseboard looks very ingenious as well, an A star for effort Keep away from PVA glue, as this locks everything solid and increases the sound. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted August 3, 2014 Author Share Posted August 3, 2014 Step 2: Track Bed and Track Not having a conventional flat earth baseboard does involve laying some form of flat surface for the track to sit on. Not being straight track requires some shortish segments of board to be cut and joined. Starting from the RH end plate -I have cut out a profile as the landscape will drop away quite quickly from here with the track on an embankment. The track bed is 9mm plywood (well I had plenty of it) The first board one is only a slight curve (transitioning) and takes it out to the first frame spar where a 9mm ply riser acts as support. A lot of small screws and glue hold everything in place with the track only temporarily held in place with double-sided sticky tape. Wooden plates are used to provide support across track bed joins. and also help to keep the trackbed level. This one spans the river feature. I have Wills Victorian Bridge (SS26) which I am thinking of using (zero cost outlay - it has been in the Train Box for decades so should have depreciated to zero by now). Just another two to finish off the track bed/boards. Not a pretty sight matching the angles but nothing a little flexible filler will not fix. Another planned structure, a Wills Cattle Creep (SS), has also appeared on the scene. One other structure, a line side hut has a location to be decided on, along with one (or probably more correctly two) distant signals. Next Track ... as before, I will return and edit this post as it progresses rather than pepper the topic with too many progress posts ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted August 5, 2014 Author Share Posted August 5, 2014 I have just acquired some banana plugs ... and the good news is that they plug straight in to the phono plug sockets that I use elsewhere. So no problems. Unfortunately the phono plugs on the ends of my leads do not plug into a banana socket ... so much for universal connectivity. Still at least my DCC system will work on my modules and a lead with a banana plug on the end will connect to my modules so standards have been met. It may seem unimportant but the phono sockets are near flush whereas the banana sockets (at least the ones I could find) are of a pillar type and when mounted on the fascia are likely to break. (modules are bound to be stored/transported/leant on their sides) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I haven't tried to fit mine yet but the ones I got have a plastic body and a nut that attaches them to "something". I've got some small corner angle pieces (that are used for putting shelves in a cabinet) which I intend to drill out one of the holes to the right size to take the body of the socket and then hopefully I can screw the brackets on the inside of the framing rather than on the fascia. I'll try and have a go this evening and see if I can get it to work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter220950 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 It may seem unimportant but the phono sockets are near flush whereas the banana sockets (at least the ones I could find) are of a pillar type and when mounted on the fascia are likely to break. (modules are bound to be stored/transported/leant on their sides) If you mount them out of the way, under the baseboard they are protected from damage and will only need a bit of a 'bent back' twice, to plug in and break down the layout. Presumably the bridging leads will be of sufficient length, there being no standard or recommendation, or details of who is expected to supply them, everyone's probably too busy deciding which control system to use to worry about minor details like that. - They won't want mine because they are made from bell wire as the wire quality isn't specified Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted August 5, 2014 Author Share Posted August 5, 2014 Presumably the bridging leads will be of sufficient length, there being no standard or recommendation, or details of who is expected to supply them, everyone's probably too busy deciding which control system to use to worry about minor details like that. - They won't want mine because they are made from bell wire as the wire quality isn't specified I think the agreement/conclusion was for the same 10A (possible over spec) wire as used in the DCC bus - it seems logical to have the interconnecting leads at least as capable as the bus. It is my intention to supply n+1 pairs of leads terminating in 4mm banana plugs (where n is the number of modules supplied. I guess the more the better in terms of numbers then at least there are spares if it turns out there is a dry solder joint or damaged lead. As for length mine will be long enough to reach across the module width - I intend only to have sockets on one side so orientation will require me to reach potentially across the width. As you can gather I do not favour connections under the layout and will continue to use the sockets I am used to. As said many a time the important thing is to conform at the join so the banana plug test was important. However, I agree that there probably should be some "recommended" minimum length for the leads. Perhaps it should be raised on the "standards topic" rather than here where few are looking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Reichert Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Someone might want to jump in and arrange a first venue booking ASAP, so there is place to take these almost finished modules to in less than a year's time . Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayfield2 Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Kenton Any more progress yet? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 Kenton Any more progress yet? Progress is a rather odd word, the wife moved it out of the way while I was "missing" and I dug it out from under the boxes this morning. No damage, nothing to damage. Lots of dust, but back on the bench ready for a restart. However, it is mighty cold out there but look forward to making it operational on my return in Feb. ATM a holiday seems so much more important than railway modelling. Sorry folks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Someone might want to jump in and arrange a first venue booking ASAP, so there is place to take these almost finished modules to in less than a year's time Here in the SECAG area we are in the early stages of planning a meet in Surrey (near the M25/M23 junction) during the middle of the year but we are still looking at setting the best date to make sure as many of our group that want to come along can. Practically, I think 20 people is the most we could handle at the venue I have in mind, so I'll be opening it up to "further afield but happy to travel" in a couple of weeks. The day won't run smoothly. It'll be all kinds of chaos and we'll probably do most things wrong based on other people's experiences of continental Modular modelling. But we'll have a damn good fun day doing so Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGC Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Progress is a rather odd word, the wife moved it out of the way while I was "missing" and I dug it out from under the boxes this morning. No damage, nothing to damage. Lots of dust, but back on the bench ready for a restart. However, it is mighty cold out there but look forward to making it operational on my return in Feb. ATM a holiday seems so much more important than railway modelling. Sorry folks. Yay, Kenton's back. Hooray!!!!!!! :-) Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Kenton's finished the return loop Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 But we'll have a damn good fun day doing so Perfection should be a goal, the journey getting there should be testing, challenging and full of learning by experience. Life would be boring it everything worked without some effort to make it feel like some achievement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 Kenton's finished the return loop Are you offering to build one - that could be a very useful module - though maybe a bit big. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Are you offering to build one - that could be a very useful module - though maybe a bit big. I'm working on one Tim Horn has a job in the queue to cut 8 boards to make an octagon, then with a bit of modification on one board the intention is to have a single line going round the return loop, double track interface at the "standard" end, and a bit of trackwork making a sort of extended scissors crossover of both tracks leading into their own single line, giving the ability to run either direction around the loop, and back into the right direction, with a reverse loop module sorting out the polarity issues. Yes it's going to be a big module - about 8ft diameter I think from memory - but as you say, "very useful". It may even require its own signalman being a junction. The intention is to fit it with the Minx Microdrive motors and use my plug-in signal frame using Cobalt switches. But that may not be ready in time for our first meetup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGC Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Perfection should be a goal, the journey getting there should be testing, challenging and full of learning by experience. Life would be boring it everything worked without some effort to make it feel like some achievement. Kenton Could you please write something that I can disagree with. That way, I will feel that RMWeb has returned to its happy state of equilibrium! :-) Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 Yes it's going to be a big module - about 8ft diameter I think from memory - but as you say, "very useful". It may even require its own signalman being a junction. The intention is to fit it with the Minx Microdrive motors and use my plug-in signal frame using Cobalt switches. Do you have access to a white van? With all the modules you are doing and organising as well you deserve some sort of medal. Actually I was thinking more along the lines of several folk joining up modules to make a loop rather than a single contributor. Connect 3 off 90deg curves - or 3 60deg curves and a suitable designed junction. I am still a little anti the off-the-shelf-board idea. They have their place, (I know some folk have as much problems with woodwork as I have with scenery) but I would never wish to see them as a standard (no matter how well built they claim to be, or how fast they were delivered) it just reeks of commercialisation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Dread Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Re the use of banana connectors. May I make a suggestion which may save you time and money. Same basic idea but using audio plugs and sockets which are for a two wire circuit. Therefore you only need one cable between baseboards. You install your piece of ally angle (with only one hole drilled in it!) at a set distance from the baseboard end and bridge to the next baseboard with a slightly over long length of mains twin flex with plugs on both ends. Where you need to have a feed in, at a place where you want a controller, you use a slightly longer piece of ally angle with two sockets on it. That would be the one on the right. It does mean that the ally angle is "alive" but that doesn't matter. It would be wise to also make a couple of connecting cables slightly longer than "standard" just in case someone gets their measurements wrong. I have used this system on several layouts now and if anyone is at the St. Alban's show this weekend, ask the team on "Hospital Gates" if you can look at the electrics under it. As always I hope this helps Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 As I said from day 1, all of my modules are designed to fit together to form a standalone exhibitable layout, in its full state (and yes I'll probably need a van for all of them) but I don't envisage taking it all to every meet or necessarily the whole thing to any show depending on the space that may be available and of course fit into an odd cornered space. I've got a couple of 45 degree modules I'm working on that can stand alone with other boards between them or together to form a 90 degree curve. I do need a junction of some sort as well but that can come later. I can understand the reluctance of 'commercialisation' in modular, after all a 4ft board won't suit every scenario a module builder may want to create, although it's fairly convenient and efficient as far as board cutting goes at a timber yard. I can't remember which one but I know one of the existing modular standards has 'set profiles for end boards' that are sold by one manufacturer alone. The reason I enlisted Tim Horn was that to accurately cut 16 edges at 22.5 degrees with my woodworking skills would make the whole exercise a waste of time. He's laser cutting the top trapezoid bits for me and the rest I'll get done at B&Q. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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