Tornado at The Bluebell Railway, 29 July 2014

[Express Blue]

During their Summer Festival 60163 was booked to run everyday between 28 July and 3rd. August.

 

Seen here on 29th. July.

 

Some advice; when visiting the Bluebell take your own food and drink as theirs is very expensive, poor quality and service is unacceptably slow.

 

Sheffield park has been developed in such a way as to loose its atmosphere and the station staff at Horsted Keynes seem to go out of their way to be unpleasant, rude to and shout at passengers (especially family groups).

[MickRalph]

During their Summer Festival 60163 was booked to run everyday between 28 July and 3rd. August.

 

Seen here on 29th. July.

 

Some advice; when visiting the Bluebell take your own food and drink as theirs is very expensive, poor quality and service is unacceptably slow.

 

Sheffield park has been developed in such a way as to loose its atmosphere and the station staff at Horsted Keynes seem to go out of their way to be unpleasant, rude to and shout at passengers (especially family groups).

As a volunteer porter at Horsted Keynes (but not on duty on 29th July), I was very disappointed to read the comment about the staff at HK.  We all very much enjoy meeting the visitors to the railway, and particularly the younger children, and try very hard to give all visitors a great experience, so that they will want to visit the railway again.  I do hope that others are not put off visiting the Bluebell by these comments, which must reflect a particularly bad experience for Express Blue and are not representative of the true position.

 

Mick Ralph

[Express Blue]

As a volunteer porter at Horsted Keynes (but not on duty on 29th July), I was very disappointed to read the comment about the staff at HK.  We all very much enjoy meeting the visitors to the railway, and particularly the younger children, and try very hard to give all visitors a great experience, so that they will want to visit the railway again.  I do hope that others are not put off visiting the Bluebell by these comments, which must reflect a particularly bad experience for Express Blue and are not representative of the true position.

 

Mick Ralph

 

 

I had to witness one porter verbally abusing a family group and humiliating them. Frankly the level of abuse could, if the family involved had gone to the police, lead to the individual being prosecuted. That was the true position  on the day of my visit, sorry if Mick Ralph wishes to sweep it under the carpet but the fact remains there is a rotten apple at HK who needs rooting out.

[2mm Andy]

I had to witness one porter verbally abusing a family group and humiliating them. Frankly the level of abuse could, if the family involved had gone to the police, lead to the individual being prosecuted. That was the true position  on the day of my visit, sorry if Mick Ralph wishes to sweep it under the carpet but the fact remains there is a rotten apple at HK who needs rooting out.

 

I presume you have brought the incident to the attention of the railway directly if it was as serious as you suggest?

 

Andy

[phil-b259]

I'm sure there's a reason for his telling off of this people, one could assume they've done something they shouldn't It's amazing how many nutters think they can do just about anything they like 'cause they're on a steam train

 

Quite - I admit that on many occasions when I have seen people wandering off where they shouldn't be I have been over aggressive with people  - its very easy to do (examples include a family group crossing the track at the north end of Sheffield Park where they walked straight past the signs requesting them to use the bridge and where the boarded crossing doesn't go all the way across, opening carriage doors on the move, kids sitting dangling their legs over the platform, individuals wandering off the station in the direction of the carriage shed or the loco yard).

 

That said once the initial shock at some peoples lack of common sense subsides then I apologise for any rudeness but to be honest given how some passengers have openly admitted to my colleagues and I that  "well its only a theme park" the initial hairdrier treatment is required to emphasise the seriousness of their actions and get their proper attention - after which a discussion can be had in which any deemed offence can be dealt with.

 

However that is not to say we haven't had staff who have been too aggressive when the need wasn't there - but I would make the observation it can happen in pretty much all 'customer service' style operations be they a Heritage railway, Tescos or your car insurances claims department. The common thread is that whoever the employer may be (and yes volunteers come under the role of employees for insurance and H&S purposes) said employer actually needs to be aware there is a problem in the first place. OK you could argue it shouldn't take customer concerns to bring it to their attention, but the 'boss' (i.e. the station master) can't be everywhere at all times and in any case sometimes a fresh pair of eyes is necessary to highlight problems - much as there is nothing like giving a document to someone else to proof read due to our tendency to see what we want to see and not what is actually written on the page.

 

Thus I suggest the best course of action would have been to ask to speak to Station Master or Station Foreman in charge of Horsted Keynes on the day (and yes I have had that happen to me before at SP)  - there is no obligation to state why, the phrase 'a confidential / private matter' would suffice. They could then discuss what you saw, whether he was aware of the incident, how it affected your views of the railway, etc. The station master could then have approached the individual concerned to provide further guidance and highlight the issue - as I said above the porter in question might not have realised they overreacted. Alternatively if you had time pressures you can allways send the Bluebell railway an e-mail info@bluebell-railway.co.uk with details of the incident. The relevant station master can be contacted to ascertain whether he recalls the incident and whether it was handled correctly and perhaps use the opportunity to remind staff of how a well meaning but ill-advised approach to dealing with incidents can appear to outsiders.

 

Ultimately the worst thing you can do is say nothing to the organisation concerned but bad mouth them elsewhere, including this forum. Every organisation and person deserves the courtesy of the right of reply and that can only happen if the organisation / person is aware of the incident in the first place.

 

Finally rather than making rather sweeping generalisations about the railway on here (and I do acknowledge that there is room for improvement in many aspects of the operation*) how about filling out our online survey here? http://survey.constantcontact.com/survey/a07e9k4hhwghxhrjwc1/a021pfhydb4hfj/questions .That way the railway will have an opportunity to be made aware of your views and areas in which they fall short in your eyes and ultimately look to make changes.

 

* Catering prices have been a regular topic to debate within the society with some members sympathising with your views. However according to the relevant directors (unpaid I hasten to add), the prices charged are comparable to other tourist attractions in Sussex (no point in comparing them to Didcot, Minehead, Loughborough, etc because other factors like staff overheads vary widely even if the food itself doesn't), and in any case even if they are a little on the high side all that extra profit is invested back into the railway and not siphoned off elsewhere.

[G-BOAF]

Just to balance the thread (and with the disclaimer of being a bluebell member in one form or another for the best part of 3 decades), I have just had a wonderful day at the Bluebell, including many miles behind Tornado; I reckon about 30 – and cheaper per mile than the mainline!

 

Found the staff to be friendly and helpful, and receptive to my comment concerning a rather alarming bit of lineside graffiti on an S&T box caused by local vandals (which did put a downer on my day, but will in no way taint it in the long term). Regarding catering - ice creams were nice! Sandwiches and full meals agree expensive and not necessarily top quality. I did have a packed lunch with me, and balked at the price of what looked like somewhat dreary bread offerings at EG. This said, with pulses in demand (a train load of people every 1.5hrs) it cannot be an easy operation to manage, and I know is an area highlighted for improvement. Happy to pay a little over the odds knowing the money is supporting the railway. Similarly buying models from the Bluebell shop rather than a box-shifter.

 

Regarding the atmosphere at Sheffield Park, hence the recent establishment of a ‘Friends of Sheffield Park’ to improve the station’s heritage attributes. Sheffield Park suffers from being a country station morphed into the headquarters of a multi-million pound tourism and engineering outfit. Efforts have been made to be sympathetic, esepcially with the most recent developments; the platform-facing buildings of the new SP carriage shed have mitigated its visual impact. What is the alternative, continue to allow WOODEN BODIED rolling stock to deteriorate outside? Preservation is a balance and in order to preserve stock, and generate revenue to fund the whole thing, certain attributes need to be sacrificed. Name me one major heritage railway where this has not happened to a greater or lesser extent.

 

While I don’t want to be making ‘excuses’, no organisation is perfect, and the Bluebell has achieved significant things recently, including the largest civil engineering project of any heritage railway. It offers a near unparalleled collection of rolling stock from every Big 4 company (counting LMS sleepers, a Toad and Dukedog, and the GNR saloon!) and most Southern constituents, to say nothing of its loco fleet. Today in the space of a few hours, I rode in stock dating from 1922, 1933, 1949 and 1962, with (today only!) working locomotives dating from 1898 to 2008! Also unlike last year, much of the journey was at 25mph, with most (all?) TSRs now removed thanks to significant track relaying over the past year.

 

OK, there are always some difficult individuals and situations in any large organisation, and clearly areas for improvement in service delivery, but if that should not, on balance, ruin a day (I hope). I think it is safe to say the pressure of the extension has taken a fair amount out of the railway, and the organisation appears to be taking stock and catching up on weaker areas.

.

[roythebus]

Remember too the BB has also had to recover from the serious loco shortages of last year due to the firebox stay problem, a problem not of their own making but I understand of their suppliers using the wrong quality material.

[Express Blue]

I was not going to make further comments, however as I seem to have incensed the pro. Bluebell faction here goes with some further facts relating to my visit.

 

1) Catering; I do not totally accept what the catering Director says re prices but for the price charged the quality of food leaves much to be desired. The context here is value, not price alone.

 

2) Sheffield park; It is neither the loco shed buildings or the new carriage sheds that, for e at least, ruin the character of this station. It is the way the shop and pub dominate the station in the positions chose combined with the other developments make the place more theme park than heritage railway. I have visited most ( if not all) of the main preserved lines in the U.K. and I cannot think of any other which have achieved this effect. I would suggest the Bluebell management need to visit the SVR, NYMR WSR, Swanage Railway etc. to see how be should  done. 

 

3) The incident. For those who know the Bluebell you can see that I was taking my photos. from the bridge immediately north of Horsted Keynes Station.  The mere fact that I could hear with ease the porters comments from that distance (with an Easterly breeze) shows just how loud he was!  I did ring the railway, I took three attempts to obtain an answer (perhaps another point the railway need to improve as a tourist attraction) and when someone answered her reply to my comment was "well we know that there are a couple of staff at Horsted Keynes who do shout as passengers but as they are volunteers we cannot do much about it"

 

I would also suggest that if there was a stationmaster on duty he must have heard this commotion so why did h not investigate?

 

I must state that I found the Station Staff at Sheffield Park and East Grinstead unfailingly pleasant and courteous.

 

So to sum up, Nice line with pleasant scenery, locomotives  rolling stock  and staff at SP and EG however bring your own food and drink and avoid the staff at HK.

[phil-b259]

I was not going to make further comments, however as I seem to have incensed the pro. Bluebell faction......

 

You would have saved yourself an awful lot of grief if your initial post was like this rather than the. 'emotional rant' your initial comments seamed like.

 

Nobody is suggesting the Bluebell is perfect least of all me and as I said the food angle is one that does crop up from time to time within the membership. Also all frontline volunteers will have tales of when the office staff have been less than ideal in their handling of things. Equally managing volunteers is not easy and sometimes there is a difficult trade off between someone's 'public persona' if you will and their competence as regards safety critical duties. (You carn't safely run a heritage railway without enough of the latter). Having said that even if you carn't change things saying "they allways shout" isn't a very good way of dealing with things.

 

As regards Sheffield park, while the shop / catering block 'forecourt' if you like could do with improvement, there wasn't much of an alternative when it came to the placing of the buildings due to the ground conditions.

[G-BOAF]

Express Blue, as above, your most recent post does explain things better. Thank you. However, one question:

 

You say in post 3 that "I had to witness one porter verbally abusing a family group and humiliating them". This post implies you were standing nearby and visually and aurally witnessed the incident.

 

Then in post 9 you note that "I was taking my photos. from the bridge immediately north of Horsted Keynes Station.  The mere fact that I could hear with ease the porters comments from that distance (with an Easterly breeze) shows just how loud he was!"

 

My question is, while I accept you heard the porter, given your distance, could you clearly hear the other side of the exchange, and were you able to see and hear the circumstances leading up to said exchange? I know if I had been at that distance, while raised voices might have caught my attention, I wouldn't necessarily have been keeping my eyes on a particular group of people for a long period of time, long enough to observe dangerous or silly behaviour that might have precipitated a reaction by staff.

 

Sorry if the 'pro bluebell' faction is incensed. Speaking for myself, I observe there seems to be a lot of anger and relentless criticism from various online sources (albeit maybe only a few vocal individuals) directed at the Railway, in a way that no other railway is consistently so treated.

[Express Blue]

Express Blue, as above, your most recent post does explain things better. Thank you. However, one question:

 

You say in post 3 that "I had to witness one porter verbally abusing a family group and humiliating them". This post implies you were standing nearby and visually and aurally witnessed the incident.

 

Then in post 9 you note that "I was taking my photos. from the bridge immediately north of Horsted Keynes Station.  The mere fact that I could hear with ease the porters comments from that distance (with an Easterly breeze) shows just how loud he was!"

 

My question is, while I accept you heard the porter, given your distance, could you clearly hear the other side of the exchange, and were you able to see and hear the circumstances leading up to said exchange? I know if I had been at that distance, while raised voices might have caught my attention, I wouldn't necessarily have been keeping my eyes on a particular group of people for a long period of time, long enough to observe dangerous or silly behaviour that might have precipitated a reaction by staff.

 

Sorry if the 'pro bluebell' faction is incensed. Speaking for myself, I observe there seems to be a lot of anger and relentless criticism from various online sources (albeit maybe only a few vocal individuals) directed at the Railway, in a way that no other railway is consistently so treated.

 

 

Perhaps it is the behaviour of those at the railway that is responsible for the criticism the line receives. Overall having to witness and hear this incident did actually spoil my enjoyment of my day.

 

I was going to vintage weekend, however will pass on this now. I note that there has not been one word of contrition from the railways staff or members on here, rather all they can do is attack me because they do not like the message. One person even admits he is "Overly aggressive with visitors"!

 

I doubt it will make any difference  to them or the railway  but it will be a long time before I visit the railway and spend money with them again. I find the Mid. Hants  (which is equi distant from my home) a much friendlier railway, with far better atmosphere and with much better quality in the catering and shop areas.I csn take my money where I am made to feel welcome and wanted, not just to have the maximum amount of money extracted for the least effort by staff who expect me to  subsidise their hobby.

 

I understand that many ex Bluebell volunteers can now be found at the Mid Hants. for similar reasons.

[The Stationmaster]

I have no connection at all with the Bluebell Railway and haven't visited it for many years so I can't comment on this incident from direct knowledge of the facts but I do visit various Railways and i have seen visitors behaving like idiots (or worse) and I have seen them duly receive an appropriate 'rocket' from the Railway's personnel.  Obviously there are ways and means of telling off someone but sometimes, speaking from both 'big railway' and preservation experience, you have to be both terse and, bluntly, almost brutal in order to deal with someone who is blithely strolling into danger.

 

None of us, it seems, really know the circumstances of this incident other than that a member of staff (it is believed) shouted or spoke very loudly to some visitors and it could be heard at a distance suggests to me something serious where quick action was needed.  But I can no more be sure of that than anyone else - however the very distance over which the voice carried of itself tells a story.  So perhaps until we know the real facts that part of it is best ignored.

 

The standard of leisure sector railway catering seems to vary widely but that is true of many other leisure attractions in Britain.  I don't know the answer to that except to say it is in the hands of the attraction itself - and make no bones about it we are talking about leisure attractions and basically the railways are not competing with other leisure sector railways but with other (non-railway) attractions in their vicinity, and it against those that they should be judged.

[MikeTrice]

I visited Horsted Keynes yesterday and all the staff were very friendly/helpful. I suppose it all depends who is on duty and what sort of day they have had.

[MickRalph]

Hello Mike,

 

Thanks for the comments - I was on duty at Horsted yesterday (and also on Saturday) and everyone I spoke to was really enjoying their visit, despite the failure of one loco during the afternoon.  I would have loved to have spoken to you (or perhaps I did unknowingly) as I have been so impressed with your work on the Silhouette Cutter.  I am currently building a station, a loco shed, and 5 vans from the Tramways of the Correze, with the parts being cut out on the Portrait cutter.  Next up will be a bogie coach, following the guidance on cutting sides and bogies in your posts.

 

Mick Ralph