Kernow Model Rail Centre to produce GWR 1361 0-6-0 Saddle Tank

[gwrrob]

Kernow have no plans to release this as a spare.

[RayEllis]

Long time lurker of this thread, now a satisfied owner of a 1363.

 

How does it compare to the Heljan model?

My Kernow 1363 arrived last week, however last summer I acquired Heljan's version cheaply in a sale. Or rather, I acquired 2, as the original Heljan expired after a mere 10 minutes running. The short answer: Kernow's model is miles ahead of Heljan's offering. I'll try and upload a photo comparison.

 

In terms of running, Kernow's 1363 initially ran with an audible sound, but following the prescribed running in period has quietened down considerably. As others have reported it is a very smooth running locomotive, capable of slow speeds. My (second) Heljan started out with a loud grating and grinding noise which has not reduced. It did not like slow speed use, constantly needing the 'hand of God' to encourage it to keep moving.

 

Appearance - at first glance, I'd say the KMRC version looks a lot better. Going into details I can only speak for 1363, but (with the exception of the much discussed splashers) I'd say Kernow's looks bang on the money. It's difficult for me to put into words, but seeing them side by side, Kernow's 1363 looks like an accurate replica/model of the specific locomotive, whereas the Heljan 1363 looks very 'generic'. I'd say it's a generic caricature of the entire 1361 class - something about the Heljan one doesn't look quite right.

The liveries are different too. Heljan's has a very olive-drab like colour to it, and the shirtbutton appears undersized. The motion has bizarrely been painted black. KMRC 1363's green looks authentic to the photo in post #1 for this topic, and the shirtbutton looks to be correctly sized. I'll try to upload a side-by-side photo.

 

I'm glad I pre-ordered the KMRC 1363, in my opinion it was well worth the wait. I'm not sure what to do with my Heljan model, although the thought of painting red stripes across the saddle, a large '6' on the bunker sides and a smiley face on the smokebox door does seem oddly appealing...

[Allegheny1600]

I've posted this elsewhere but it came out quite well so I thought I'd share on here as well:

 

 

Tony

This looks remarkable!

 

 

Here's 1365 at St. Philips Marsh in 1961

 

 BSPM 1365.jpg

 

Thanks to Mikkel for reminding me and to Killybegs for the original.

 

Let's be pragmatic about it, neither model is "perfect" * but it does now look to me that the Kernow  Heljan version is the better one. If the Heljan version is not that great a runner, I can cannot live with the small large compromises on the Kernow, they really are not small.

I note too, from the photo above, the wheels on the Kernow are very nice indeed. (they still are!)

I withdraw my apology for expressing my doubts about the Kernow version previously.

Cheers,

John.

 

* No need to cover old ground, I'm sure.

Edited March 22, 2018 by Allegheny1600

[Mikkel]

For my own part I was thinking of a fictional loco.

 

 

Photoshopped 1361 class to see how it would look with a halfcab, replacement fittings and some bits removed. Should be a fun little project.

 

Thanks to Killybegs for allowing use of his excellent original photo.

[RayEllis]

For those wanting a side-by-side, here's my attempt to show them off. My apologies in advance, the closest thing I have to a camera is my iPhone - but you can hopefully see the differences. In the photos, the KMRC is always closest to the camera, Heljan further away.

 

KMRC is distinctly 'greener', with correctly sized livery, as per the photo of 1363 in preservation. It has a satin/semi-matte finish. The Heljan is a much darker olive colour, with undersized shirt button, and (although not terribly obvious in the pictures) very glossy shine.

 

There are numerous detail differences on the saddle tank alone. I'm afraid I have no idea what the various parts are actually called (vents?), with Heljan having details in the incorrect location or in some cases completely omitted. The fire iron brackets on the bunker are similarly less detailed on the Heljan model.

 

I admit my photography won't be winning any awards soon, I do hope it proves useful to any of you who are still 'on the fence'. I stand by my earlier comments, I much prefer the offering from KMRC.

[gwrrob]

I thought the shirtbutton logo looked a tad too large and the bufferbeam numbers too small on the Kernow model myself.

[toboldlygo]

I thought the shirtbutton logo looked a tad too large and the bufferbeam numbers too small on the Kernow model myself.

 

It is and also in the wrong place and the buffer beam numbers are a mm too small in height

[57xx]

the buffer beam numbers are a mm too small in height

 

Did they copy the number plate font too? 

[The Stationmaster]

I thought the shirtbutton logo looked a tad too large and the bufferbeam numbers too small on the Kernow model myself.

 

For some reason there's those differences from the livery sample - bit odd that.  The logo is in fact in the right place but because it's too large it looks a bit odd.  Don't forget that on the Heljan model numbered 1363 the handrails on the saddle tank are at the wrong height (too low)which also makes it look a bit unusual.

 

BTW saw one at work on a layout at Ally Pally yesterday and it was running very quietly and smoothly.  Plus an amusing tale - bloke goes up to the Kernow stand and looks down at the three saddle tank models and loudly pronounces that they're no good and he'd had to send three back because they didn't work properly.  Duly asked what he was on about as Kernow have received no returns due to running problems and it transpires the chap hadn't seen that those on sale were the Kernow models

Edited March 25, 2018 by The Stationmaster

[gwrrob]

I've added a Modelu crew to my 1363 and you will be pleased to hear there's no need to take it apart.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ian Hargrave]

Some artistic camera work there too,Robin.Two excellent shots of top notch quality that would not disgrace the pages of any commercially produced magazine..I can see that the 1361 and the shunter's truck are a perfect pairing.I must see to it methinks.

[gwrrob]

Some artistic camera work there too,Robin.Two excellent shots of top notch quality that would not disgrace the pages of any commercially produced magazine..I can see that the 1361 and the shunter's truck are a perfect pairing.I must see to it methinks.

 

I'm going to do a shoot on my layout thread.

 

[Mallard60022]

1361 was run on a friend's layout today and performed beautifully on slow shunting moves. There may be some photo's to follow.

Phil

[Oldddudders]

I have no need for one of these, and Halwill Junction probably never saw one. After all, the nearest GWR outpost at Launceston is a good 20 or more miles away. So what? They are cute and so I splashed out when in Kernow's shop the other day. Bijou, and tiny, frankly. But I then recalled the other 0-6-0 tank I bought recently. 1:87, rather than 1:76, of course, and metre-gauge, but even so! 

 

[JimC]

There are numerous detail differences on the saddle tank alone. I'm afraid I have no idea what the various parts are actually called (vents?), with Heljan having details in the incorrect location or in some cases completely omitted. 

I think you've got to be fairly brave to say that a given minor fitting is definitively in the wrong place. GWR standardisation was aimed only at interchangeability, and minor parts did vary in position, and even varied in position from overhaul to overhaul on an individual locomotive. I'm seeing at least as many original photos supporting the location of the boiler top fittings in the order the Heljan locomotive has them in as there are for the KMRC one. I'm not sure either is definitively wrong or right unless you are pinning down a specific locomotive on a specific date. Both seem to be configurations that at least some 1361 class locomotives ran with at some time in their lives.

Edited April 14, 2018 by JimC

[Oldddudders]

I think you've got to be fairly brave to say that a given minor fitting is definitively in the wrong place. GWR standardisation was aimed only at interchangeability, and minor parts did vary in position, and even varied in position from overhaul to overhaul on an individual locomotive. I'm seeing at least as many original photos supporting the location of the boiler top fittings in the order the Heljan locomotive has them in as there are for the KMRC one. I'm not sure either is definitively wrong or right unless you are pinning down a specific locomotive on a specific date. Both seem to be configurations that at least some 1361 class locomotives ran with at some time in their lives.

 

I'm not sure I follow you. The Heljan models are less customised than the Kernow versions. My Kernow 1362 in early BR livery even comes with a parts list and diagram specific to that model, not a general one covering the entire production run. Kernow have made each model suit its livery, not simply applied multiple liveries and numbers to a base model. With a class of 5 locos that is feasible. I am not aware that the Heljan models vary as much.

[Oldddudders]

Anyway, following a few mins on the rollers, 1362 has now done about 40 mins on track, with pleasing performance, hauling seven or eight wagons. That's about 8 laps of my circuit, which at sensible 1361 speeds takes about 5 mins per lap. The Bachmann decoder supplied by Kernow at purchase fitted easily, just like the 0298 version. Very pleased.

 

According to my 1961/2 Combined Volume, I seem to have seen 1363 somewhere. I wonder where. Par? Plymouth? 

[The Stationmaster]

Anyway, following a few mins on the rollers, 1362 has now done about 40 mins on track, with pleasing performance, hauling seven or eight wagons. That's about 8 laps of my circuit, which at sensible 1361 speeds takes about 5 mins per lap. The Bachmann decoder supplied by Kernow at purchase fitted easily, just like the 0298 version. Very pleased.

 

According to my 1961/2 Combined Volume, I seem to have seen 1363 somewhere. I wonder where. Par? Plymouth? 

 

It was a Plymouth engine Ian but of course gradually migrated eastwards in preservation days stopping off first for quite a while at Totnes.

[Trev1073]

I have just purchased, or had purchased for me, a 1361. I checked running on DC on a loose piece of track, all fine. Fitted a decoder (Hattons 6 PIN), programmed OK and then set it running on rollers. All works fine both directions, motor was nice and quiet after a while. Must have run it in both directions at least 30 mins. Lubricated where suggested. Still OK on rollers. When placed on layout loco has managed only a very short distance on quite a high throttle 100+ of 128 steps (on rollers it was running on 3/128 steps) and basically runs poorly. Back on rollers fine. I have cleaned the track and other existing stock is fine so I am totally confused by what could be going on. Has anyone had similar issues or is it just down to my trackwork??

 

Trev

[cctransuk]

I have just purchased, or had purchased for me, a 1361. I checked running on DC on a loose piece of track, all fine. Fitted a decoder (Hattons 6 PIN), programmed OK and then set it running on rollers. All works fine both directions, motor was nice and quiet after a while. Must have run it in both directions at least 30 mins. Lubricated where suggested. Still OK on rollers. When placed on layout loco has managed only a very short distance on quite a high throttle 100+ of 128 steps (on rollers it was running on 3/128 steps) and basically runs poorly. Back on rollers fine. I have cleaned the track and other existing stock is fine so I am totally confused by what could be going on. Has anyone had similar issues or is it just down to my trackwork??

 

Trev

 

Could it be a gauge issue?

 

Could your track gauge have tightened up due to ballast adhesive shrinkage?

 

If the wheels are a tad wide to gauge it, could be that it runs fine on loose track and rollers, but is 'pinched' by tight-gauged track.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Trev520]

Could it be a gauge issue?

 

Could your track gauge have tightened up due to ballast adhesive shrinkage?

 

If the wheels are a tad wide to gauge it, could be that it runs fine on loose track and rollers, but is 'pinched' by tight-gauged track.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Something that I had not thought of, I will check the loco b to b in the morning. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

trev

[BenL]

Something that I had not thought of, I will check the loco b to b in the morning. Thanks for your thoughts.

trev

They don't like any oil or dirt on the axles as that's where they pick up power from - worth giving the exposed ends of the axles a wipe to see if that helps. Edited April 29, 2018 by BenL

[The Fatadder]

Before I crack open the tool box, has anyone got inside the model yet? It certainly doesn’t look easy at first glance.

 

I want to gauge how difficult it will be to get access to the splashers...

[Graham456]

Before I crack open the tool box, has anyone got inside the model yet? It certainly doesn’t look easy at first glance.

I want to gauge how difficult it will be to get access to the splashers...

I and I would appreciate any guidance to get in mine as well, not yet getting fussy about splashergate, but I acquired a couple of non working prototypes as staplegrove, and live in hope of a quick lucky poke around like I did with my well tank last year, if not I have a nice cps chassis which was due to go under a K's model might go underneath one of them !

 

Not one of those unboxing videos ! But a unbodying video !

 

In another thread the topic is what have you done with your K's kit...the question is more what am I going to do with my K's 1361 kits......out classed even if it is fourty years on from a teenage build

Edited May 1, 2018 by Graham456

[The Fatadder]

I and I would appreciate any guidance to get in mine as well, not yet getting fussy about splashergate, but I acquired a couple of non working prototypes as staplegrove, and live in hope of a quick lucky poke around like I did with my well tank last year, if not I have a nice cps chassis which was due to go under a K's model might go underneath one of them !

 

 

The lack of a motor is the other reason for needing to get in mine..