rcmacchipilot Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Hi, I was hoping someone could help me out here. I am reasonably certain that the S and D used the standard 20T brake van as made by airfix, but could some one please confirm that? I am thinking of getting some of the kits and building them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
71H Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 (edited) Take a look at this.............. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7v0kg_bailey-gate_tech?from_related=related.page.int.meta2-only.38cdb9ed3bf32b6149b95d06d85b7691138937211 Edited August 23, 2014 by 71H 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 What was originally a LNER design, then, with a few alterations became the standard BR 20T brake van, and was seen near enough everywhere - even on the exGWR. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcmacchipilot Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 Cool thanks. Now to get approval from the minister of transport and finance. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold phil_sutters Posted January 28, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 28, 2015 Hi, I was hoping someone could help me out here. I am reasonably certain that the S and D used the standard 20T brake van as made by airfix, but could some one please confirm that? I am thinking of getting some of the kits and building them. I appreciate that you have already had confirmation that they were used on the S&D, but thought you might like to see a close-up of one in action - http://www.ipernity.com/doc/philsutters/26460211 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 May I be a little pedantic in the hope of avoiding any confusion by future readers of this topic? Neither the Somerset and Dorset nor the Joint company ever used anything like this as the companies no longer existed when BR introduced them. Forty odd S&DJR vans lasted to the LMS takeover in 1930 and were quite quickly replaced by LMS vehicles. LMS Stanier vans were still to be seen on the former S&D lines for some years after nationalisation when they were replaced by the BR standard type discussed here. Nick 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 May I be a little pedantic in the hope of avoiding any confusion by future readers of this topic? Neither the Somerset and Dorset nor the Joint company ever used anything like this as the companies no longer existed when BR introduced them. Forty odd S&DJR vans lasted to the LMS takeover in 1930 and were quite quickly replaced by LMS vehicles. LMS Stanier vans were still to be seen on the former S&D lines for some years after nationalisation when they were replaced by the BR standard type discussed here. Nick LMS vans were not replaced by BR ones they just worked alongside each other till their demise during the late 80's/early 90's! Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combe Martin Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 The ex Southern Railway brake van as now made by Bachmann was also used on the S&D in BR days. However beware, Bachmann's grey model has left hand guards duckets, whereas all the photos I've found show the grey brake vans were right hand ducket versions. Bachmann's right hand ducket bauxite brake van is also correct for the S&D, though I have only found one photo of them in use there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 LMS vans were not replaced by BR ones they just worked alongside each other till their demise during the late 80's/early 90's! Mark Saunders Paul, we are discussing brake vans on the former Somerset and Dorset. There was precious little of anything to be seen there in late 80's/early 90's! It's my impression from photos that BR vans were rare up to 1958. Indeed, some (or more) of those vans seen in the distance at the end of long trains may well be the Southern type as noted above by Combe Barton. During this period LMS types predominate. Thereafter, and presumably as a result of the transfer to the Western Region, the number of LMS vans decreases quite rapidly so that by 1961/2 very few are seen and the majority, if not all, are BR vans. The only exceptions that I can recall are the couple of ex-GWR toads that appeared with the BR vans during track lifting in 1969. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Warrior Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 At the danger of being accused of going off topic can I wind the clock back to post grouping and particularly pre 1930, when the S&DJR was finally absorbed? Would LSWR Road vans (as about to be produced by Kernow) and Midland Brake vans as produced by Bachmann have been used on the S&DJR? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 The Bachmann van in the form withougt duckets would be suitable. I believe it is LMS diag 1659, the final Midland type and was continued by the LMS. As it happens, the S&DJR aquired three of these (Nos 23-5) from the LMS in 1925. I don't know about LSWR road vans, though I doubt it and haven't seen any photographic evidence. I would expect them to be kept for their own local use on LSWR/SR lines. The S&DJR had their own vehicles labelled as "road vans", but they were outside framed covered goods vans and, apparently, travelled much further afield than their own lines. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I think 'rcmacchipilot' should be a little clearer with what period/era he is talking about/ modelling to save all this conjecture. But given the varied types working their way from Westerleigh yard thro' to Templecombe, it was luck of the draw, but exSR 'pill-boxes' weren't that common. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzler Fan Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) +I believe into the 1930's there were also 10T Brake Vans being replaced by the 20T vans.Somewhere there is a restored 20T in MR livery with duckets I think.. Edited February 1, 2015 by Dazzler Fan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I believe into the 1930's there were also 10T Brake Vans being replaced by the 20T vans... The figures given in Bixley et al. An Illustrated History of Southern Wagons show 43 S&D brake vans were passed to the LMS, plus perhaps a few more on the duplicate list. Of these, about 26 were of the 6-wheel 20T type (as seen for many years in use as a mail van). Three were the 20T vans acquired from the LMS in 1925. The remainder were the four-wheel 10T S&D types. Nick 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) I appreciate that you have already had confirmation that they were used on the S&D, but thought you might like to see a close-up of one in action - http://www.ipernity.com/doc/philsutters/26460211 Of course the van in the photo was a LNER one, though it might have been built by BR. Edited January 31, 2015 by billbedford 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzler Fan Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 +Particularly interested in this thread, to populate my Writhlington layout c 1930.Seems I was wrong, with my purchase of the LMS with duckets! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold phil_sutters Posted February 1, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 1, 2015 Of course the van in the photo was a LNER one, though it might have been built by BR. Well that widens the options doesn't it! BR, SR, LMS/MR and now LNER. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bécasse Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Brake vans not marked "NOT IN COMMON USE" nor "RU" were common user in the BR era. The short-distance nature (yard-to-yard or out-and-back trip) of the majority of goods train workings meant that vans tended not to migrate too far from their "home" ground but, of course, odd ones did escape and, if to a design popular with guards, might well find a permanent "home" elsewhere. The ex-GWR toads were universally hated by guards from other regions because they were considered unsafe - if you have ever ridden in one you would understand why. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combe Martin Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 That's one type of brake van I've never seen evidence of on the S&D. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 No !! Or, to expand slightly, the LMS continued to build the MR design without duckets for a few years, thereafter they built them with duckets. I'm not sure when the duckets first appeared, though. Was it arount 1927? Nick 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 I appreciate that you have already had confirmation that they were used on the S&D, but thought you might like to see a close-up of one in action - http://www.ipernity.com/doc/philsutters/26460211 I am pretty confident that is an LNER one, the high torpedo vent is not something I have noticed on any BR built ones (shown to advantage here http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lnerbrake/e2cccf219 ) Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzler Fan Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 That's one type of brake van I've never seen evidence of on the S&D. What happened with the Writhlington "Return to GWR Radstock" - what Brake's would they have had for delivery to the pit? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JZ Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Just because certain types weren't seen in photo's, it doesn't mean to say that they never appeared. I've been looking through my books to model freight consists that actually ran, I found that photographs are predominantly of passenger trains and many of freights miss out the van completely. Therefore I use a mix of LMS, SR and BR types. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcmacchipilot Posted July 29, 2017 Author Share Posted July 29, 2017 This is probably the slowest reply to a thread ever.... however thanks for all the replies. Thanks for all the photos as well, they are really usefull. Dazzler, at the moment modelling the area around 1956 to 1962ish. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 03060 Posted February 9, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 9, 2019 I realise that this is an old thread but does anyone know of any photos of the dia1659 brake vans that the S&DJR bought in 1925 or what their livery would have been around this time, please ? Regards, Ian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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