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20 T brake vans on the SDJR


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  • 5 months later...
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Hi,

 

I was hoping someone could help me out here. I am reasonably certain that the S and D used the standard 20T brake van as made by airfix, but could some one please confirm that? I am thinking of getting some of the kits and building them.

I appreciate that you have already had confirmation that they were used on the S&D, but thought you might like to see a close-up of one in action - http://www.ipernity.com/doc/philsutters/26460211

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May I be a little pedantic in the hope of avoiding any confusion by future readers of this topic? Neither the Somerset and Dorset nor the Joint company ever used anything like this as the companies no longer existed when BR introduced them. Forty odd S&DJR vans lasted to the LMS takeover in 1930 and were quite quickly replaced by LMS vehicles. LMS Stanier vans were still to be seen on the former S&D lines for some years after nationalisation when they were replaced by the BR standard type discussed here.

 

Nick

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May I be a little pedantic in the hope of avoiding any confusion by future readers of this topic? Neither the Somerset and Dorset nor the Joint company ever used anything like this as the companies no longer existed when BR introduced them. Forty odd S&DJR vans lasted to the LMS takeover in 1930 and were quite quickly replaced by LMS vehicles. LMS Stanier vans were still to be seen on the former S&D lines for some years after nationalisation when they were replaced by the BR standard type discussed here.

 

Nick

LMS vans were not replaced by BR ones they just worked alongside each other till their demise during the late 80's/early 90's!

 

Mark Saunders

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The ex Southern Railway brake van as now made by Bachmann was also used on the S&D in BR days. However beware, Bachmann's grey model has left hand guards duckets, whereas all the photos I've found show the grey brake vans were right hand ducket versions. Bachmann's right hand ducket bauxite brake van is also correct for the S&D, though I have only found one photo of them in use there.

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LMS vans were not replaced by BR ones they just worked alongside each other till their demise during the late 80's/early 90's!

 

Mark Saunders

 

Paul, we are discussing brake vans on the former Somerset and Dorset. There was precious little of anything to be seen there in late 80's/early 90's!

 

It's my impression from photos that BR vans were rare up to 1958. Indeed, some (or more) of those vans seen in the distance at the end of long trains may well be the Southern type as noted above by Combe Barton. During this period LMS types predominate. Thereafter, and presumably as a result of the transfer to the Western Region, the number of LMS vans decreases quite rapidly so that by 1961/2 very few are seen and the majority, if not all, are BR vans. The only exceptions that I can recall are the couple of ex-GWR toads that appeared with the BR vans during track lifting in 1969.

 

Nick

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At the danger of being accused of going off topic can I wind the clock back to post grouping and particularly pre 1930, when the S&DJR was finally absorbed? Would LSWR Road vans (as about to be produced by Kernow) and Midland Brake vans as produced by Bachmann have been used on the S&DJR?

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The Bachmann van in the form withougt duckets would be suitable. I believe it is LMS diag 1659, the final Midland type and was continued by the LMS. As it happens, the S&DJR aquired three of these (Nos 23-5) from the LMS in 1925.

 

I don't know about LSWR road vans, though I doubt it and haven't seen any photographic evidence. I would expect them to be kept for their own local use on LSWR/SR lines. The S&DJR had their own vehicles labelled as "road vans", but they were outside framed covered goods vans and, apparently, travelled much further afield than their own lines.

 

Nick

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I think 'rcmacchipilot' should be a little clearer with what period/era he is talking about/ modelling to save all this conjecture. But given the varied types working their way from Westerleigh yard thro' to Templecombe, it was luck of the draw, but exSR 'pill-boxes' weren't that common.

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I believe into the 1930's there were also 10T Brake Vans

being replaced by the 20T vans...

The figures given in Bixley et al. An Illustrated History of Southern Wagons show 43 S&D brake vans were passed to the LMS, plus perhaps a few more on the duplicate list. Of these, about 26 were of the 6-wheel 20T type (as seen for many years in use as a mail van). Three were the 20T vans acquired from the LMS in 1925. The remainder were the four-wheel 10T S&D types.

 

Nick

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Brake vans not marked "NOT IN COMMON USE" nor "RU" were common user in the BR era. The short-distance nature (yard-to-yard or out-and-back trip) of the majority of goods train workings meant that vans tended not to migrate too far from their "home" ground but, of course, odd ones did escape and, if to a design popular with guards, might well find a permanent "home" elsewhere.

 

The ex-GWR toads were universally hated by guards from other regions because they were considered unsafe - if you have ever ridden in one you would understand why.

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I appreciate that you have already had confirmation that they were used on the S&D, but thought you might like to see a close-up of one in action - http://www.ipernity.com/doc/philsutters/26460211

I am pretty confident that is an LNER one, the high torpedo vent is not something I have noticed on any BR built ones (shown to advantage here http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lnerbrake/e2cccf219 )

 

Paul

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  • 10 months later...

Just because certain types weren't seen in photo's, it doesn't mean to say that they never appeared. I've been looking through my books to model freight consists that actually ran, I found that photographs are predominantly of passenger trains and many of freights miss out the van completely. Therefore I use a mix of LMS, SR and BR types.

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  • 1 year later...
  • 1 year later...
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I realise that this is an old thread but does anyone know of any photos of the dia1659 brake vans that the S&DJR bought in 1925 or what their livery would have been around this time, please ?

 

Regards,

Ian.

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