Hornby king

[NicShilton]

Also is not suspicious that the main picture on their facebook is distinctly GWR themed...

[rovex]

might be a bit much to hope that their next CAD teaser isd a cab side with a numberplate reading "6000"

[Ozexpatriate]

Did we take down http://www.6023.co.uk/

 

It keeps timing out.

[JSpencer]

Didn't the kings use the same tenders as the castles?

[Coach bogie]

Didn't the kings use the same tenders as the castles?

 Eventually. The double filler tender type were constructed for the first batch of Kings.

 

Interesting how Hornby have used the double filler type with their Stars. Why go to the expense of producing this tender that is not really appropriate for a Star?

 

MW

[JSpencer]

Eventually. The double filler tender type were constructed for the first batch of Kings.

 

Interesting how Hornby have used the double filler type with their Stars. Why go to the expense of producing this tender that is not really appropriate for a Star?

 

MW

Viola - so Hornby only need to tool up a new front half (or rather 2/3rds), the bit that follows behind already exists.

 

CAD drawings + tender already tooled up. It would seem that Hornby is well advanced in their version of the King (assuming it's that), I cannot see them backing off now. Too much invested.

[7013]

Is it just possible that Hornby are just showing this to stir up a bit of mischief?

[The Stationmaster]

Hornby have added a second photo on their Facebook page about 20 minutes ago. 

Very much like an original condition 'King', apart from it looking a bit more like the BR renewal of the front frames - but it won't be a final BR condition one by the look of things (if it does turn out to be a 'King') - unless they are going to do the same as they did on the 'Castle'

Edited September 3, 2014 by The Stationmaster

[The Stationmaster]

 Eventually. The double filler tender type were constructed for the first batch of Kings.

 

Interesting how Hornby have used the double filler type with their Stars. Why go to the expense of producing this tender that is not really appropriate for a Star?

 

MW

Apart from the fact that two 'Stars' ran with such a tender at sometime in their lives (neither of them yet modelled by Hornby I believe so your point stands of course).  The interesting question is whether or not the two fillers were converted to single filler pattern (and when) or whether they stayed that way until withdrawn.

[JSpencer]

Is it just possible that Hornby are just showing this to stir up a bit of mischief?

 

If it is a King. It could be a warning to the other party saying "watch out, we are already well advanced in our own version".

In retrospec that would actually be rather kind of them as it would allow the other party to review their's before they spent money on development costs.

 

Of course, it could be a taster for later this month at Swindon, Hornby's equivalent to Bachmann's NRM C1 announcement???

Edited September 4, 2014 by JSpencer

[G-BOAF]

Pics on FB of the front frame sections of a King.

 

The worse-case scenario is that Hornby produce a Star-eque-quality king (moulded details, square axles with no bearings...) and Hattons cancel theirs. We will then be stuck with a moderately good looking a mechanically suspect model when we could have had a first class model from DJM (even if a longer lead time).

Similar to 71000; Hornby's 'between railroad and main range' offering has effectively prevented a better model being produced.

 

On the other hand, if it is castle quality (and assembled properly, unlike their castles with odd-shaped footplates and boiler mould seems) they could be on to a winner. The problem with Hornby at present is that we just don't know, quite often until prototype models are released, which design philosophy has been used; OK P2 and DoG were announced as railroad models, but GWR 2-8-0s and Stars were announced as main range models, but were very much mechanically railroad. This makes it very difficult to get excited about Hornby doing anything steam-related at present. Why not post CADs of the mechanical aspects and seperate detail? Maybe because your 'average' customer does not care about such things. As such there will be enough over-excited folk on the internet going on about etched-effect rivets[1] and separately-fitted moulded detail wrapped in ice-block tissue paper that the cat dragged in, that the models will sell in the champaign bucketload….

 

An un-excited G-BOAF.

 

[1] why on earth do people go on about rivet detail when the items are just as often bolts. The only major area of rivets on a steam loco are on the tender platework... I digress.

Edited September 4, 2014 by G-BOAF

[jwd]

Such a waste if both Hornby and DJM do a king, i thought with all the problems and quality control (not to mention the moulded handrails!!) of the Star why Steam chose Hornby again.

 

Hornby should bring out the Dean Goods for Steam maybe as their body is still good so just have to do a new chassis also Steam have the last surviving one, albeit static display.

 

For me if Hornby do a King they won't be getting my money, just don't trust them with GW stuff (Star, 2-8-2T, 2-8-0T etc.) , DJM will be getting it, for two of them.

[Ian Hargrave]

Such a waste if both Hornby and DJM do a king, i thought with all the problems and quality control (not to mention the moulded handrails!!) of the Star why Steam chose Hornby again.

 

Hornby should bring out the Dean Goods for Steam maybe as their body is still good so just have to do a new chassis also Steam have the last surviving one, albeit static display.

 

For me if Hornby do a King they won't be getting my money, just don't trust them with GW stuff (Star, 2-8-2T, 2-8-0T etc.) , DJM will be getting it, for two of them.

I think the simple answer to the question why is that Steam asked Hornby a while back to produce this as a special commission and are obliged to 'run with it' now.

I realise that there are many who are disenchanted with the Star and 42/52/72 tanks with genuine reason.That is obviously due to Hornby having its 'mid life crisis' as it were.

However,to dismiss them out of hand is to forget that they also have produced a Grange and a damned good Castle...for all it's QC failings.

It out-performs most things on my tracks and still brings me a glow of nostalgia.

One dreadful year must not obscure a decade of 'such things as dreams are made of'. Remember the Triang/Rovex years?

Alas,we have short memories.Please let's put things in perspective,

[bigherb]

Such a waste if both Hornby and DJM do a king, i thought with all the problems and quality control (not to mention the moulded handrails!!) of the Star why Steam chose Hornby again.

 

Hornby should bring out the Dean Goods for Steam maybe as their body is still good so just have to do a new chassis also Steam have the last surviving one, albeit static display.

 

For me if Hornby do a King they won't be getting my money, just don't trust them with GW stuff (Star, 2-8-2T, 2-8-0T etc.) , DJM will be getting it, for two of them.

Your forgetting DJM's model is a commision by Hattons unless there is some other agreement only available from Hattons. If Hornby are going to do one I expect it will be available nationwide for shops to sell to the average punter who may have never heard of Hattons.

[Miss Prism]

I suspect the majority of average punters will be aware of a place called Hattons.

[Dunsignalling]

All the angst expressed about other recent Hornby GWR locos will discourage many people from pre-ordering a new Hornby 'King'. 

 

Dave Jones has a good track record from before he went solo and,so long as Hatton's get sufficient interest, I don't see them cancelling theirs.

 

IF Hornby produce a bang-up job AND get it into the shops PDQ, some will decide it's good enough and buy it (and some only buy red boxed models anyway).

 

However, Hatton's are offering more versions from the get-go (though I amagine that delivery will be staggered, as with the Garratts) than Hornby are likely to do over several years.

 

Also, l think a lot of modellers will want to avoid the possibility of being stuck with a devalued Hornby model if the Hatton's/DJM one turns out to be significantly better a few months later. All in all, it suggests that Hornby may have had to go public because they are already too far down the road to change course.

 

John

Edited September 4, 2014 by Dunsignalling

[40F]

At least a main stream manufacturer is doing one and it should be released

[The Stationmaster]

The simple question is really 'what will Hornby do with a new 'King' outside any arrangement they might (or might not) have with Steam?'

 

Many people will undoubtedly have heard of Hattons as Miss P says but equally Hornby has a much wider market across (to use the appalling term) a much broader socio-economic group than is the case with Hattons, i.e. not everyone who has a train set/model railway, or their grandparents buying Christmas presents etc and so on, has necessarily ever heard of Hattons (and Hattons is just part of Hornby's market in any case).

 

So we are thus far guessing in the wind - first we are guessing that it's a 'King' (not much doubt of that I suspect, but ....), second we are guessing (albeit from a well informed starting point) that there's a tie-in with Steam, and third we haven't got a clue if that assumed tie-in involves an 'exclusive' or if there will be a different version of the engine offered in a red box through Hornby retailers.  We might confirm, one way or the other, a Steam tie-in on Saturday/Sunday week; we might not know about any wider Hornby marketing until December.  

 

I think it is perfectly reasonable to assume that Hornby have started the 'teasers' because of the Hattons announcement but equally the timing of it suggests that it was pre-planned (did they really get those teaser pics set-up overnight - amazing if they did) although it might possibly have been brought forward a week because of the Hattons announcement.  Simple answer is we'll probably never know!

 

But one thing I think we can be fairly sure of is that if there's a Steam tie-in an awful lot of regular Steam customers/collectors and Swindonians with past railway association will go for the Steam model because of its association with and support for the museum - just as they have in the past and because they've already got a 'Castle' and a 'Star'.

[Horsetan]

...IF Hornby produce ....AND get it into the shops PDQ, ...

 

The recent track record suggests the "PDQ" bit may be an Internet-driven vain hope.

 

There really isn't anything new about two manufacturers going almost head-to-head with the same class of engine - after all, Hornby and Bachmann both came out with an "08" and a 4MT 4-6-0 plus, arguably, part of a Robinson "04" 2-8-0, i.e. the chassis which was reused in the Thompson "O1".

 

"You pays your money; you takes your choice".

 

Still prefer the Mitchell "King", though.

[gwrrob]

 

 

But one thing I think we can be fairly sure of is that if there's a Steam tie-in an awful lot of regular Steam customers/collectors and Swindonians with past railway association will go for the Steam model because of its association with and support for the museum - just as they have in the past and because they've already got a 'Castle' and a 'Star'.

 

That's fine for collectors but I'd prefer a better detailed [non design clever] version from DJ Models going on the spec advised for use on a layout.KGV would be nice from Steam/Hornby but a post war liveried 6018 from DJM is better from my standing point.

[69843]

I'll take the first one to do 6000 in preserved form, circa Bulmers era 

 

As to the two manufacturers, one model point, apart from the ones rightly pointed out by Ivan above there is also the GWR 1361, now being the subject of two manufacturers focus. As long as both of these manufacturers play to their strengths in creating their Kings, I can see them both being successful models in their own right.

[Coach bogie]

That's fine for collectors but I'd prefer a better detailed [non design clever] version from DJ Models going on the spec advised for use on a layout.KGV would be nice from Steam/Hornby but a post war liveried 6018 from DJM is better from my standing point.

I appreciate what you are saying but no one knows what the spec is yet from Hornby, IF they do one at all. 

 

I did not really need Steam Stars as I have Mitchell, Proscale, Wills on the layout already but modelling thirties Westbury you can never have too many Stars and, apart from minor problems with one, they all run fine. In terms of detail, like many on here, they were never going to be run out of the box, and I would predict the same for the King, whoever produces it. Brass plates, crew, genuine coal (I have two lumps, one from KGV in 1971 and the other from City of Truro in 1985), lamps just to start with. I bought the Swindon ones as I wanted to support their initiative in producing 4003.

 

Despite all this neither company has announced the King on my list so I have the ultimate in additions. Having 5005 running already, she is quite lonely needing 6014 to keep her company. I had the plates made - just need the engine to put them on!

 

MW

Edited September 4, 2014 by Coach bogie

[Gerald Henriksen]

The simple question is really 'what will Hornby do with a new 'King' outside any arrangement they might (or might not) have with Steam?'

 

Many people will undoubtedly have heard of Hattons as Miss P says but equally Hornby has a much wider market across (to use the appalling term) a much broader socio-economic group than is the case with Hattons, i.e. not everyone who has a train set/model railway, or their grandparents buying Christmas presents etc and so on, has necessarily ever heard of Hattons (and Hattons is just part of Hornby's market in any case).

 

 

But how much of those markets who haven't heard of Hattons are really in the market for a high quality model that based on Hornby's current record will be at a higher price point?

 

I am not saying that Hornby are doomed with this model (if true), but rather with the hits their reputation has taken in the last several years (lack of stock on shelves, models with poor design choices, etc.) how much of the market that this model is actually aimed at will choose Hornby over Hattons/DJM?

[Paul.Uni]

In case you need a really big hint, Hornby have updated their facebook cover picture to a picture of Elvis Presley.

[jwd]

 

 

But one thing I think we can be fairly sure of is that if there's a Steam tie-in an awful lot of regular Steam customers/collectors and Swindonians with past railway association will go for the Steam model because of its association with and support for the museum - just as they have in the past and because they've already got a 'Castle' and a 'Star'.

 

Have to disagree strongly on this point, I go to Steam regularly and am an avid supporter, as soon as the Star was announced I pre-ordered one no matter what the cost as i knew some of the money would have gone to them.

 

I naively expected this 'Museum Piece' to be top notch spec especially for the money being asked at the time for the Steam version..

 

To say i was sorely disappointed with the moulded handrails and quality control is an understatement, yet they have gone with Hornby again, I won't be making the same mistake no matter how much 'learning' Hornby have done over the last year.

 

If Steam had gone with Bachmann or another manufacturer then I would consider a Steam version as they would get some of the money in any sale.

 

In this case DJM has my money.