Derby Lightweight Railcar - Westdale?

[Ray H]

I primarily model in 4mm but have made a few 7mm purchases recently so that I have something to run on our club 7mm layout.

 

The latest purchase is a Derby Lightweight railcar with one piece aluminium roof and body sides. It has cast white metal ends and had been assembled using what looks like a 9mm thick piece of MDF as the floor.

 

The model, probably of some vintage, had been assembled using contact adhesive and what appeared to be numerous coats of paint.

 

The bogies had seen better days. The brass framework is damaged on the unpowered bogie. The motor is hanging loose on the powered bogie, the casting assembly was not square and at least one casting appears to be missing. I'm not a rivet counter but presume there should be some evidence of brake gear which there isn't.

 

I'm reasonably certain that I need to replace the bogies - Easy Build? I'm tempted to replace the cast buffers with spring ones.

 

A few of the underfloor castings appear to damaged.

 

I've stripped the whole thing down and am about to try to rebuild it.

 

It has been suggested that this may be a Westdale model but I can't find their website.

 

Another post on RMweb implies that it may be possible to enhance the model using parts from other suppliers.

 

Can anyone confirm the most likely source of the kit and loan or supply a copy of the build instructions?

 

Without going too mad, what options do I have to improve the kit?

 

I'm not technically minded so almost certainly will not recognise the correct terminology for the parts the kit may need but we can give it a try.

 

Any help/guidance/assistance will be gratefully received.

 

Thanks

[pwr]

Sounds very Westdale. I have one to build too.

 

Westdale can still supply bits for this to repair and enhance and as you say Shaun at Easybuild will doubtless supply a motor bogie kit.

 

Paul R

[Ray H]

Sounds very Westdale. I have one to build too.

 

Westdale can still supply bits for this to repair and enhance and as you say Shaun at Easybuild will doubtless supply a motor bogie kit.

 

Paul R

Thanks

 

Do you know if Westdale have an email address?

Edited October 12, 2014 by Ray H

[pwr]

Not sure. I would need to check the advert in the Gauge O Guild Gazette. I am out presently but perhaps another member can help meantime

 

Paul R

[eldavo]

Try this link to UK model shops...

 

http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/suppliers/309-Westdale_Coaches_and_Models

 

Cheers

Dave

[Ray H]

Many thanks Paul, that would be appreciated.

 

Dave, thanks for that. It's the one link I found.

 

Unfortunately unimpeded access to a telephone will be a little difficult during business hours for several days and I don't want to call out of hours in case it is a private house.

[daifly]

Ray

 

I have sent you a PM with the current Westdale catalogue attached. Dick Taylor, the proprietor, doesn't do email/internet.

 

Cheers

 

Dave

[pwr]

Ray

 

No there is no e-mail address. You need to phone

 

regards

 

Paul

[HeavyDuty]

Or by post, which is how I had to contact him only to be told he wouldn't sell to Colonials.

[Ray H]

I've spoken to Dick Taylor and he kindly sent me copies of the somewhat brief instructions for the kit.

 

The paperwork included a photocopy of the underframe parts. My model appears to have several bits missing or broken from what I can make out from the paperwork.

 

Is there anywhere else that either does a complete set of parts or can supply the relevant parts individually as Dick implied that he doesn't supply the parts separately?

 

My early thought were to replace the bogies as there were obviously bits missing from them as well. I took a rain check on that idea once I had Dick's contact details but I don't think that I've got any option but to replace them having now studied them in far more detail since speaking to Dick.

[Simond]

Maybe Wayoh? http://www.invertrain.com

 

Usual disclaimer

Simon

[pwr]

You might get DMU bogies from Shaun at Easybuild

 

Paul R

[Ray H]

Cheers chaps. I'm growing more and more inclined to opt for a set of replacement bogies from Shaun. That is a shade annoying as it will push the total cost of the model well over the cost of a new one but we learn from our mistakes.

 

I went to Duffield today and managed to turn up just as they failed the railcar so I missed out on a ride. However, it did mean that I was able to spend more time than otherwise taking pictures of the underside so that I can now assess what parts I still need in order to complete the model.

 

I'm still open to suggestions with regard to a likely source of any missing underframe parts if anyone can help. Sorry if that seems a strange request but I've no previous experience of kit (re-)building or of 7mm supply sources.

[lancer1027]

Again you might be able to get some detail underframe parts off Shawn at Easybuild. If you explain your situation he usually tries to help. Not sure of cost though.

 

I am in the process of building and Easybuild Class 121 Bubblecar so i have enclosed a pic to help you see if there is anything on there of use to your project.

 

 

 

 

I know these pics aren't very good so appologise for that i thought i had some better one.

 

Hope this helps

 

Rob

[Ray H]

Thanks Rob.

 

I can see a certain similarity with some of the items that I have recovered from the model. Unfortunately they wouldn't let me turn the railcar on its side to get some pictures like yours when I was there yesterday!

 

The chap I went to Duffield with has already had excellent service from Shaun - one of the several recent spellings for his name that I've seen so hopefully one must be right!

 

I keep looking at the bogies that came with the model - the trailer bogie is now in pieces having had the paint stripped. There are two bearing missing on that and the nickel silver frame is all twisted, out of alignment and badly soldered. The power bogie is still as (originally?) assembled but the metal work for that is all twisted and at least one small casting is missing.

 

The more I look the more I'm convinced that they're beyond redemption.

[pwr]

Thanks Rob.I can see a certain similarity with some of the items that I have recovered from the model. Unfortunately they wouldn't let me turn the railcar on its side to get some pictures like yours when I was there yesterday!The chap I went to Duffield with has already had excellent service from Shaun - one of the several recent spellings for his name that I've seen so hopefully one must be right!I keep looking at the bogies that came with the model - the trailer bogie is now in pieces having had the paint stripped. There are two bearing missing on that and the nickel silver frame is all twisted, out of alignment and badly soldered. The power bogie is still as (originally?) assembled but the metal work for that is all twisted and at least one small casting is missing.The more I look the more I'm convinced that they're beyond redemption.

Can you post a photo. You never know somebody - even me! - might offer some advice

 

Paul R

[Ray H]

Funny you should say that because I thought I should do just that so he we go.

 

Here's a couple of pictures of the model prior to my purchase.

 

 

 

Here's the dismantled unpowered bogie frame

 

 

and finally here's the re-assembled body as it was just a few seconds ago.

 

 

It will hopefully be getting a light covering of primer today or tomorrow to see whether it needs any further work before it is attacked with micro drill bits to make holes for such things as door hinges, handles and grab rails - the latter two not being added until after the top coat has been added.

 

I'll try and lay out the underframe components that I do have and post a picture of them later today.

[lancer1027]

Hi Ray,

 

From the pictures i would be inclined to replace the bogies with Easybuild. I know its more expense but at least you have control over the performance when you have built the bogies.

 

I look forward to seeing some more progress on the body soon.

 

Rob

[pwr]

The basic body looks quite sound now you've stripped it back. I see what you mean about the bogies. I would be inclined to agree with Rob. You won't regret it long term.

 

Paul R

[pwr]

I have an old Westdale 122 kit which I got for £20 some years ago including bogies. I bought a Bristol models motor bogie which seems to be ok although I still have to finish it.

 

I also recall that Westdale did their own motor bogies. At least I have a set for a Derby Leightweight twin set which is in the pile of things to build. Knowing my luck Easybuild will come out with a plastic one before I get around to it!

 

Paul R

[Ray H]

 

The world and its wife seemed to have combined today to thwart any idea that I had of putting some primer on the body to highlight defects that still need attention so here's a closer view of the end of the vehicle as it is before painting. You'll note that the cabling on the offside(?) has been removed.

 

I fear my next chance to do anything with the spray can may be Tuesday.

 

The model will eventually be fitted with a DCC decoder so I'm contemplating drilling out the three "lights" and fitting LED based alternatives. The (actual) railcar currently sports a centre light below the windscreen, as does the 4mm model that I have. This appears to be missing from the casting and will need to be added (before I paint it!) as I've just noticed from a picture of the railcar on the Banbury branch that the centre light seems to have always been there.

 

 

 

In the meantime these are the underframe parts that I recovered when the model was stripped down. All these parts are (white?) metal. There's also two things of a material that I don't recognise that could possibly be air (or vacuum) cylinders. They have a honeycomb like internal structure and I only know this because they were damaged slightly when removed and have been repaired with milliput and are somewhere else (which is why they got overlooked in the picture).

 

The model had a lot of simulated piping on the roof. I have no pictures of this on either the model or the (real) railcar. However, I do have the two car OO gauge model which has piping in the roof so I presume that I can copy that.

[Guest Isambarduk]

I've just come across this thread so I hope my contribution is still relevant/useful.  I recently posted this information on the G0G Forum but, as friends have pointed out, I have failed to explain in detail exactly what I did!  Although I have returned this bogie to its owner now so I cannot take more photos, another friend had exactly the same problem with his bogie so he has given it to me to take more pictures and to give a more thorough explanation, which will follow in due course.  For the time being, here you go:
 

 
Recently, a friend asked me if I would help him out with the motor bogie for his Class 121/2 ‘Bubblecar’ that he was building from a kit by Westdale Coaches.

Looking at the components I could see that they were potentially a useful kit of parts but I could also see why my friend had got into difficulties: the instructions give only an outline idea of how to go about assembly and the etches had some errors: the holes in the motor mounting plates and bearing holes in the inner frame required quite some ‘drifting over’, and the lap joints to make up the inner frame were not quite in the correct place on the etches so they needed adjusting to achieve a square frame.

As it may be some help to others, here is how I went about it.
 

 

Above are all the subassemblies (except the brake rigging) that are assembled by springing together, for the most part. In the middle right, is the Mashima ‘double-ended’ motor and twin gearbox assembly, complete with the two worms on the ends of motor shaft. The inner frame (in the front of the image) is clipped to this by springing it over the bearing bushes that project from the gearboxes. The lower bolster (inverted U-shaped bracket with projecting brass pins) is sprung into position between the motor and the inner frames.
 

 

The phosphor bronze wiper pick-ups on the ‘insulated’ side are soldered to a piece of copper-clad with an insulation break so that it could also be soldered to the inner frame. A 12BA screw, two solder tags (one for the wire to the motor, the other for a wire to the unpowered bogie) and a nut complete the pick-up assembly.

Next the axles, worm wheels and wheels were assembled (below), ensuring that both of the insulated wheels were screwed onto the axles on the same side as the insulated pick-up assembly. To retain the axles and the worm wheels centrally, I made up two pairs of spacers to go between the worm wheels and the inner frames. The pickups on the non-insulated side are soldered to a piece of nickel silver that is also soldered to the inner frame.
 

 

The instructions suggest using 0.7mm diameter brass wire to locate the brake hangers on the inner frame but it would not be possible for the wire to cross the frame, as is a common practice, as the motor/gearboxes would be in the way of the inner two wires. I turned up eight brass posts with spigots on each end; one spigot locates the post whilst it is soldered into the inner frame and the other is for the top of the brake hanger to clip over. The brake rigging was made up in situ as two assemblies using the eight etches of brake hanger/blocks, brass wire as cross-rods and brass strip to join each pair of cross-rods so that each assembly is rigid and may be clipped over the posts.
 

 

To complete the bogie (above) the outer frame is sprung into position over the inner frame and retained by a pair of short pins in each end stretcher of the outer frame. The kit includes 8BA screws, washers and nut to unite the two frames but the springing into position seemed a less obtrusive but easy solution to me. The upper bolster, which is to be attached to the floor of the coach, is retained with a 6BA half-nut on a shouldered pin in the lower bolster. The second set of pick-ups for the unpowered bogie lie in the front of the completed bogie.

Working on a modern diesel was quite a deviation for me (if not deviant) and I thought it best not to think about where the bogie was due to go: under a DMU … and a blue one at that! However, it was vaguely reminiscent of scratch-building the ‘bogie’ (below) for my GER class G15 Wisbech & Upwell Tramway 0-4-0 tram loco (later LNER class Y6) about forty years ago (See: www.davidlosmith.co.uk/UT_Tram_engine.htm )
 

David

Edited December 11, 2014 by Isambarduk

[Ray H]

David

 

Thanks for your informative post. Unfortunately the person who built the kit that I bought must have found the problems you described but tackled them in a completely different way. As a result whilst those cast parts of the bogie assembly that remain could be re-used, the etched parts are more than beyond redemption and a replacement set is on order from a different source.

 

Edited to correct typo

Edited December 12, 2014 by Ray H

[Guest Isambarduk]

"... the etched parts are more than beyond redemption ..."
 
I believe that I can understand that!  The owner of the bogie that I worked on had made a start and got into difficulty and I would say that what he sent me fell close to being in that category.  Fortunately, he also sent me all the etches, castings and wheels for the unpowered bogie so I was able to start again with the powered bogie using news parts and leaving him to rework his started effort into the unpowered bogie, which I reckoned was an easier proposition.
 
The biggest problem that I think modellers will have is, as I mentioned above "... the lap joints to make up the inner frame were not quite in the correct place on the etches so they needed adjusting to achieve a square frame."  The friend who has exactly this problem says that he knows of others who have come unstuck and we suspect this is also their undoing. 
 
To illustrate the problem, here is a bird's eye view of a frame that has been assembled according to the instructions but without making any modification to the etches at the lap joints.
 
 

 
As you can see, with the axles are set square to the frame, the end stretchers and the wires to support the brake hangers are 'miles' out of square, and there is no option in my view but to unsolder the lot, correct the etches and to start again. 
 
If there is any interest, I will post more pictures here when I work on this one (yes, I know now - I should have taken more photos when I built up the first one!)
 
David

[puddlejumper]

"... the etched parts are more than beyond redemption ..."

 

I believe that I can understand that!  The owner of the bogie that I worked on had made a start and got into difficulty and I would say that what he sent me fell close to being in that category.  Fortunately, he also sent me all the etches, castings and wheels for the unpowered bogie so I was able to start again with the powered bogie using news parts and leaving him to rework his started effort into the unpowered bogie, which I reckoned was an easier proposition.

 

The biggest problem that I think modellers will have is, as I mentioned above "... the lap joints to make up the inner frame were not quite in the correct place on the etches so they needed adjusting to achieve a square frame."  The friend who has exactly this problem says that he knows of others who have come unstuck and we suspect this is also their undoing. 

 

To illustrate the problem, here is a bird's eye view of a frame that has been assembled according to the instructions but without making any modification to the etches at the lap joints.

 

 

 

121BogieOutOfSquare.JPG

 

As you can see, with the axles are set square to the frame, the end stretchers and the wires to support the brake hangers are 'miles' out of square, and there is no option in my view but to unsolder the lot, correct the etches and to start again. 

 If there is any interest, I will post more pictures here when I work on this one (yes, I know now - I should have taken more photos when I built up the first one!)

 

David

David

Yes please if for no other reason I always find your descrtions of problems and solutions very helpful and informative

Doug