RMweb Premium macgeordie Posted November 19, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 19, 2014 I've been working on this project for quite a while now, but other things kept getting in the way and it has taken a lot longer than I expected to get this far. I came across one of these wagons on a preserved line in Derbyshire a couple of years ago and thought it would make a nice subject for a model. Here is a photo of the one I saw but there are loads more photos of these wagons on Paul Bartletts website. A later version of this wagon was also built to diagram 2/904 and these were all used by the engineering departments. There appears to have been 32 of these wagons built to diagram 512 between 1950 and 1956 in six lots shared between Derby and Lancing works. Numbers went between 900000 and 900041 but I've no idea where the other 10 numbers in the series were used. Most were unfitted when built but some had a through pipe fitted later. The diagram 904 wagons which were made for the Engineering departments appear to have been built in Lancing during 1959 and were identical to the diagram 512 except for the axle boxes and the fact they were fitted with a through pipe from new. The diagram 512 wagons were fitted with different types of 10” x 5” journals but most seem to have been fitted with the standard MR/LMS design. The diagram 904 had Timkin roller bearings, in 9” x 5” journals. The floor was a mixture of wood and metal sections although photographic evidence shows that some of the wagons appear to have had the floors plated over later in their lives including the one I photographed myself. Here are a few photos from a couple of the test builds. I had intended to use the 51L casting of the LMS axlebox at first, and the second test build was fitted with these boxes, but once fitted, they looked too big to my eye. I had a rummage through my 'bits' box and found some 51L Midland boxes which are a bit smaller and measured out to the correct size for the 10 x 5 Journals. The difference between the two is obvious on the photographs and I think the latter is much better in appearance. I'm still not 100% happy with the etches yet, so I've made a few little tweaks to the drawing and I'll send that off for another test etch in a few days. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicktoix Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Nice work Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted November 20, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 20, 2014 Carefully waves hand. Looking good. Will these etches be available to commoners? Can't have too many wagon kits. Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGC Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Hi Ian Do you have an idea if and when you will be releasing these as a kit? If so, I'd want one, so could you put me on a list as a potential customer? Thanks Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 In case you've forgotten whereabouts in Derbyshire it was. it was Wirksworth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iak Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Well I do declare! More naughtiness to drool over. I think you ken the rest Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium macgeordie Posted November 20, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 20, 2014 Hi Gents Thanks for the kind comments. I will make this kit available to those who want one when I have done the next test build and I'm 100% happy with it. I have started a list with the names of those (above) who have expressed an interest but if anybody else wants one, please p.m. me for details. I'm not sure what the cost will be at this stage but it won't be as much as the Trestrols as there are fewer 'bought out' components in it. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethashenden Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Far too modern for me, but they look quite nice! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icknieldrobin Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Ian If it's anywhere as good as the Trestrol then it will be top notch. Can you put me down for 1 please I hope you don't mind but I've put a link in to the Vintage Carriage and Wagon web site www.vintagecarriagetrust.org where there are a good few pics of the 15 or so preserved examples dotted around the country of which a good proportion seem to be in Scotland for some reason. On the wagon page look for specific wagon type and then scroll down to Flatrol MVV Cheers Doug Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium macgeordie Posted November 22, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 22, 2014 Hi Doug I'll put you on the list, and good to hear you enjoyed building the Trestrol. There seems to be a problem with your link, it just takes me to a 'page not found' for some reason or other. Cheers Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted November 22, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 22, 2014 Hi Ian The model looks wonderful. Hopefully there will be enough modellers who wish to have one so you can recoup the cost of getting your own ones etched. Sorry I don't think I will be a customer, only because I cannot see a need for one on my layouts. Well done. I do have one little complaint, how dare you have an active "modelling" thread when the rest of us are getting excited about all the wonderful annoucements of RTR duplication that is going to happen :mosking: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium macgeordie Posted November 23, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 23, 2014 As these wagons were fitted with wooden baulks to support the load when they were new I decided to add the appropriate bits to the drawing which I have just sent to the etchers. I have had a go at making the relevant wooden parts ready to fit when I get to that stage, but tried just sitting them in place on one of the ones I have already built and they look O.K. It would seem that the large baulks which were to support a load didn't last very long in service, but the support pieces mounted on each well end did. There are a couple of photos on Paul Bartletts website which show them still in place, but rather dilapidated. These are the individual parts I just used some wood I had in my bits and pieces box, I think it is Mahogany, but almost anything would do. This wood is well seasoned, and unlikely to warp, it's been in the bits box since about 1980 !!! I knew it would come in useful one day Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyddrail Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Ian, Wagon is looking very good. I could use a few of these loaded with diggers for the early 1990s. Flatrols have been hard to model for a long time. Well done. Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium macgeordie Posted November 28, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 28, 2014 Ian, Wagon is looking very good. I could use a few of these loaded with diggers for the early 1990s. Flatrols have been hard to model for a long time. Well done. Cheers. Hi Lyddrail Thanks for the compliment, if you want to run these with diggers as loads, the wagons would probably be the engineers ones which were diagram 914. This version can be built using the 51L version of the roller bearing box and I'll supply these with the kit if you want them, you just need to make sure the digger you fit as the load is within gauge. Once I get the new test etch back (probably next week) I'll get that built then make the kit available to those who want them. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium macgeordie Posted November 29, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 29, 2014 The new test etch has arrived and looks O.K. I'm away for a couple of days though, so I can't start on it till the middle of next week. When these wagons were delivered, they were supplied with two sets of chains complete with screw couplings to tighten them and hooks to attach to the shackles on the wagon floor, so I've added replicas of the couplings and hooks to the etch in some of the spare spaces. I've also put a couple of Instanter couplings on there too for those who don't want to use the NEM box and intend to fit chain links. There is also a template on the fret to make it easier to get the correct shape for the well ends when they are rolled over a suitable former such as a piece of dowel or a pen shank. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 I've been working on this project for quite a while now, but other things kept getting in the way and it has taken a lot longer than I expected to get this far. I came across one of these wagons on a preserved line in Derbyshire a couple of years ago and thought it would make a nice subject for a model...... There appears to have been 32 of these wagons built to diagram 512 between 1950 and 1956 in six lots shared between Derby and Lancing works. Numbers went between 900000 and 900041 but I've no idea where the other 10 numbers in the series were used. Most were unfitted when built but some had a through pipe fitted later. The diagram 904 wagons which were made for the Engineering departments appear to have been built in Lancing during 1959 and were identical to the diagram 512 except for the axle boxes and the fact they were fitted with a through pipe from new. The diagram 512 wagons were fitted with different types of 10” x 5” journals but most seem to have been fitted with the standard MR/LMS design. The diagram 904 had Timkin roller bearings, in 9” x 5” journals. The floor was a mixture of wood and metal sections although photographic evidence shows that some of the wagons appear to have had the floors plated over later in their lives including the one I photographed myself........... Ian Ian, At the request of a fellow member and one of your potential customers I have prepared the sheet of transfers illustrated (low res.) below; it covers all the variants of your kit, and also of the Cambrian Models LORIOT kit. Regards, John Isherwood, Cambridge Custom Transfers. www.cctrans.org.uk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubbles2 Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Ian, At the request of a fellow member and one of your potential customers I have prepared the sheet of transfers illustrated (low res.) below; it covers all the variants of your kit, and also of the Cambrian Models LORIOT kit. 4BL0140_.JPG Regards, John Isherwood, Cambridge Custom Transfers. www.cctrans.org.uk Hi John. Are these only avaliable in yellow, a mix of white and yellow would be good to cover a wide range of liveries and eras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Hi John. Are these only avaliable in yellow, a mix of white and yellow would be good to cover a wide range of liveries and eras. The sheet is printed - correctly - in white for 2/512 (unfitted grey) and straw yellow for the rest (departmental black). These are the as-built liveries for the 1940s / 50s / 60s. White lettering for departmental stock would be in a different letterface, for the 'boxed' / TOPS eras; (which latter I don't, as a matter of policy, cover in my range). Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubbles2 Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 The sheet is printed - correctly - in white for 2/512 (unfitted grey) and straw yellow for the rest (departmental black). These are the as-built liveries for the 1940s / 50s / 60s. White lettering for departmental stock would be in a different letterface, for the 'boxed' / TOPS eras; (which latter I don't, as a matter of policy, cover in my range). Regards, John Isherwood. Thankyou John, would the departmental wagons have been painted in gulf red or olive green before the TOPS era? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyddrail Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Ian, I didn't check axle boxes. My pics show both types in the early 1990s, those with old boxes being 900006/24/36. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Thankyou John, would the departmental wagons have been painted in gulf red or olive green before the TOPS era? Almost certainly, only if painted that colour from new. Gulf Red was not common, and the build dates of these wagons would mean that their initial livery would have been black with straw yellow lettering. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stadman Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Hmm may have to get one to keep my Trestrols company in their box Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike hughes Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Took these photos at the East Somerset a few years back of a 2/904 hopefully link works!! https://flickr.com/photos/99908177@N03/sets/72157637517522433 And done etched brass 2/512, 2/904 in 7mm, examples below https://www.flickr.com/photos/milesperhour1974/9563185461/in/set-72157635177969582/lightbox/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/milesperhour1974/9566259312/in/set-72157635177969582 Has anyone seen a photo of these when first built? Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium macgeordie Posted December 9, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted December 9, 2014 Took these photos at the East Somerset a few years back of a 2/904 hopefully link works!! https://flickr.com/photos/99908177@N03/sets/72157637517522433 And done etched brass 2/512, 2/904 in 7mm, examples below https://www.flickr.com/photos/milesperhour1974/9563185461/in/set-72157635177969582/lightbox/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/milesperhour1974/9566259312/in/set-72157635177969582 Has anyone seen a photo of these when first built? Mike Nice work Mike and thanks for the link to the additional photos. If you have them I would appreciate copies of the originals if you are prepared to let me have them. My own test build is progressing slowly, I'll try to post some pics tomorrow, but time is the enemy at the moment, I just never seem to have enough. How I ever had time to work is beyond me, I'm busier now I'm retired than I ever was when I was working. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium macgeordie Posted December 10, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted December 10, 2014 A bit of progress with the test build. This is actually a replacement etch from PPD, the first one they sent was little under etched so the slots and tabs didn't fit. To give them their due though, I got the replacement in just a couple of days after I asked for it. I've decided to fit just four shackles to this wagon as I have seen (and ordered) a nice cast kit for a fairground diesel generator set in RM which will make a very nice load for this wagon. Here are a couple of pics of the actual shackles on the real wagon along with the ones I have fitted to mine. As you can see, the shackle is barely visible when it hasn't been lifted out for use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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