RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted November 11, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 11, 2018 Quite. Imagine having to build your own drive mechanism for your washing machine, because the Hotpoint one wouldn't run properly! or Hotpoint telling you it'll run-in nicely with a bit of lubrication. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted November 11, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 11, 2018 Definitely the unmistakable sound of worm and cog losing mesh. I've heard it somewhere before. P That should come with a trigger warning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 Remember how pleased I was with my 58XX that I tasted the other day. Today I began detailing it, removing some of the inaccuracies on the model, moving the sandboxes back etc. Tested it briefly, all seemed fine ready to post photos on here.....and then this.... I do not know what to say.... feel so disappointed. I'd finally got a good one. It sounds like a gearing issue.......probably going to give up with it and just get the etched chassis built for it. Manufactures warranty is now out the window.....this loco was tested and run in Sounds silly to say I'm devastated, but I am really. These locos mechanisms are utter crap. Remind me never to buy anything in connection to the DJM brand ever again. Manufacturers warranty may not be out of the window if all you did was add detailing parts. I'd check with Hattons first. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom F Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 (edited) Manufacturers warranty may not be out of the window if all you did was add detailing parts. I'd check with Hattons first.Not in this case I don’t think. I’ve not just fitted Hattons detailing parts. I have fitted masokits etched screwlinks. New smokebox lamp irons as Hattons had placed it in the wrong place. Removed one of battery boxes as the non auto 58xx should only have one, not two. Finally I have moved the tool boxes back as correct for 5810. I should add I only went ahead and did all these things when I was sure it was run in (a good few hours) and when I was sure it was a good un! Some news however. Late last night I had another go at running and after a suggestion from a friend to try giving it a good run in reverse, it’s now running as well as it did earlier. Unsure why it happened (gear out of sync?). Ran it again this morning and all was fine. The plan is to keep running it everyday until after the weekend. If everything is fine then I’ll hope it doesn’t happen again for whatever reason and go ahead and weather. If however it does this again in that time prior to weathering, then I’ll have to go down the etched chassis route. It will be sometime before I can relax while running her. Edited November 12, 2018 by 9793 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir TophamHatt Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 I hate playing the blame game but I wonder who is at fault here. Is it Hattons for accepting the stock? DJM for the design - maybe limited by Hattons' requirements? Or just a bad factory? It's a puzzle but makes me worry about mine, which seems to be a good runner out fo the box but I'm almost afraid to run it now! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Garry D100 Posted November 12, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 12, 2018 Ive ended up cancelling mine that i ordered last night. I know there are some good ones out there, but it would feel like im buying a ticking time bomb. And that just spoils your enjoyment of a model always wondering if and when it might fail. Ive gone for a Bachmann Coal Tank instead 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lofty1966 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 I finally got around to testing the two that I purchased when they first came to market. Pleased to say they ran up and down the test track very smoothly indeed. Big sigh of relief after all the misgivings aired on here. Now back in their boxes for the foreseeable future though now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted November 12, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 12, 2018 (edited) Quite. Imagine having to build your own drive mechanism for your washing machine, because the Hotpoint one wouldn't run properly! Now its funny you say that, a few years back, my neff went naff and i called out the repair guy. His response was to pull out the motor separating the magnet,remove the armature & clean the contacts and replace the brushes. Then add back all the components and reconnect the belt to the motor pinion. All looked, and sounded very familiar, just a bit bigger in juice and size, indeed watching him i picked up a subtle trick i use on my loco repairs.. mark a pencil x on the magnet side / motor frame side / brush contact so when removed you know which way to put them back and maintain polarity. Anyways back to topic. Edited November 12, 2018 by adb968008 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted November 13, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 13, 2018 (edited) If these locos were domestic appliances, they would have been recalled by now under trading standards rules! Sympathies Tom: I feel your pain. Nick. Quite. Imagine having to build your own drive mechanism for your washing machine, because the Hotpoint one wouldn't run properly! What like these domestic appliances you mean...... https://www.which.co.uk/news/2018/04/retailers-advice-exposes-millions-to-tumble-dryer-fire-danger/ https://conversation.which.co.uk/home-energy/whirlpool-dangerous-tumble-driers/ https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44136939 https://www.which.co.uk/news/2018/02/revealed-the-brands-linked-to-the-most-appliance-fires/ https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43056887 https://www.london-fire.gov.uk/news/2018-news/total-recalls-how-to-check-if-your-tumble-dryer-is-a-safety-risk/ Or how about these cars.... https://www.which.co.uk/news/2018/08/vw-and-seat-continue-to-sell-thousands-of-cars-with-potentially-lethal-fault/ Claiming that somehow model railways are the poor relation when it comes to trading standards is b*****ks of the highest order - at least your model locomotive is not going to set your house on fire and potentially kill you and your neighbours! Edited November 13, 2018 by phil-b259 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted November 13, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 13, 2018 I hate playing the blame game but I wonder who is at fault here. Is it Hattons for accepting the stock? DJM for the design - maybe limited by Hattons' requirements? Or just a bad factory? It's a puzzle but makes me worry about mine, which seems to be a good runner out fo the box but I'm almost afraid to run it now! The only one that matters to the consumer is the first one, Hattons. Unless you bought it from another seller such as the DJM stall. Looking beyond that it is probably a combination of DJM and the factory, I'm guessing the factory do the real design work and control the manufacturing processes, but if DJM was the client of Hattons then he will be responsible to Hattons and was probably paid to assure that what the factory made was acceptable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denbridge Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 In the USA and on mainland Europe, manufacturers have in the past, been sued for selling below standard models. Perhaps it is high time this happened in the UK. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted November 13, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 13, 2018 In the USA and on mainland Europe, manufacturers have in the past, been sued for selling below standard models. Perhaps it is high time this happened in the UK. In the words of the great John MacEnroe,you cannot be serious ? OK who's going to bankroll your ( expensive ) lawsuit,remembering that only the lawyers profit ? You already have sufficient legal redress under the Sale of Goods legislation in any case. A sense of proportion might be the wiser avenue to explore 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 In the USA and on mainland Europe, manufacturers have in the past, been sued for selling below standard models. Perhaps it is high time this happened in the UK. Should be the quickest way to end the hobby. I don't think we should have the right to sue a manufacturer for selling a model not up to expectations (which is highly subjective) but we do have in place all sorts of consumer laws for return/refund within a certain time frame. And I do feel "most" shops and manufacturers go way above that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted November 14, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 14, 2018 The market has its own way of addressing manufacturers and shops which don't deliver the goods to an acceptable standard, that system works pretty well. We are protected by pretty robust consumer protection law and can return faulty goods. I think that's enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold D9020 Nimbus Posted November 14, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 14, 2018 Given the number of inherently faulty products ("split gears", anyone?) on the market, I don't believe the current system is working. Model railway manufacturers seem to be regarded differently from other suppliers of consumer goods—whilst things have moved on from the days when The Trade (as RM referred to it) was never challenged, there seems to be a general opinion that manufacturers are doing us a favour making models. I can't think of any other area where such an attitude prevails. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denbridge Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 Should be the quickest way to end the hobby. I don't think we should have the right to sue a manufacturer for selling a model not up to expectations (which is highly subjective) but we do have in place all sorts of consumer laws for return/refund within a certain time frame. And I do feel "most" shops and manufacturers go way above that.Not up to expectations is very different to not fit for purpose. Bachmann have been sued in the USA, both ROCO and fleischmann in Europe. They are still going. Manufacturers know that the UK market is a soft touch so there is little incentive for them to up their game. Better quality control is one area that has been extremely poor. All the time people put up with sub standard products this will continue. I repeat, they don't put up with it abroad. Why should we? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 What like these domestic appliances you mean...... https://www.which.co.uk/news/2018/04/retailers-advice-exposes-millions-to-tumble-dryer-fire-danger/ https://conversation.which.co.uk/home-energy/whirlpool-dangerous-tumble-driers/ https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44136939 https://www.which.co.uk/news/2018/02/revealed-the-brands-linked-to-the-most-appliance-fires/ https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43056887 https://www.london-fire.gov.uk/news/2018-news/total-recalls-how-to-check-if-your-tumble-dryer-is-a-safety-risk/ Or how about these cars.... https://www.which.co.uk/news/2018/08/vw-and-seat-continue-to-sell-thousands-of-cars-with-potentially-lethal-fault/ Claiming that somehow model railways are the poor relation when it comes to trading standards is b*****ks of the highest order - at least your model locomotive is not going to set your house on fire and potentially kill you and your neighbours! Thanks for the Which links, particularly the ones on car recalls. Some manufacturers seem to think they can get away with anything. I haven't subscribed to Which for a while, but the library has (used to at least) copies for more in-depth info. But that web link looks like it's worth keeping an eye on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted November 14, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 14, 2018 We have several members on here saying they'll be voting with their feet and avoiding this particular manufacturer. I avoid certain shops as even if their wares are cheap I'd rather pay more to do business with a shop I have confidence in. If people aren't vexed enough to alter buying habits then I would argue that they're not really that worried about these issues. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 To be fair to Dave J - my O2s and Well Tanks are nice old runners - none of us know who specified what when it came to the 14xx - but it's list price was £99 well down on the Kernow DJM models - could the price point have had a bearing on the quality of the innards and the resultant problems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesndbs Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 Hi Like I suspect many I just acquired a DJ 14xx in the Hattons sale. Wish now I'd looked here first. I won't say it runs dreadful, just that after its running in period and more it does not run as expected, not smooth and also has trouble with point work that all other models are fine with. Initial assessment suggests the gear train is not properly lubricated at it's bearings, while some oil may make its way onto them who can tell. The coreless motor (why?) seems to be working hard behind a low reduction gear set?? The loco is off balance, it will happily balance on rear pony and inner drivers but can't balance on the drivers only (using rolling road) My initial thought is to shove some weight into the smoke box but it seems stuffed with a hard wired dcc thing. Over all disappointing for an otherwise nice looking model. Was it worth £74? Undecided yet. Has anyone made a guide for getting access to the motor and gears? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom F Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 (edited) Has anyone made a guide for getting access to the motor and gears?Hi Mike Have a look at this post in my thread by Tim Captain Kernow. It refers how to remove the chassis to replace with an etched chassis, but I suspect some of the info may be of use. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/136923-cwm-prysor-capel-celyn-bala-blaenau-ffestiniog-branch/page-26&do=findComment&comment=3362903 Edited November 14, 2018 by 9793 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PMP Posted November 14, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 14, 2018 Re breaking and entering https://albionyard.wordpress.com/2017/03/20/14xx-frustration/ https://albionyard.wordpress.com/2017/03/01/hattons-djm-14xx-review-h1410/ I’ve now got mine running acceptably well, Capt Kernow will verify from running it on the OO test track at S4um. Mine has the coupling rods replaced and part of the original gear train removed, due to excessive cogging whilst descending gradients. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesndbs Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 Thanks guys. Our new, highly detailed model will be designed and produced in partnership with DJ Models and will set new standards for a ready-to-run small locomotive with levels of detail only previously seen on high quality brass locomotives.’ I find that a sad statement, if this is setting the standards, oh dear oh dear. Well I don't know what to do really. Think I'll see if I can slip some weight in the smoke box, try it then and if not, sadly it will be puffing back to Liverpool. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PMP Posted November 14, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 14, 2018 There’s little opportunity to add weight, the smokebox holds the chip/circuit board. You can add a bit in the bunker, but that means no sound DCc. The detail of the model and appearance are very good in fairness, the chassis’s though appear to be a bit of a lottery Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Garry D100 Posted November 14, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 14, 2018 Our new, highly detailed model will be designed and produced in partnership with DJ Models and will set new standards for a ready-to-run small locomotive with levels of detail only previously seen on high quality brass locomotives.’ I find that a sad statement, if this is setting the standards, oh dear oh dear. Although they say they will set “new standards” to be fair they dont say high standards !! ;-) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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