Kernow GWR steam rail motor

[57xx]

Yes afaik. Certainly DJ Models/Dave Jones commenced this thread and until recently were the commissioned party for Kernow in relation to their range of models i.e. Tiger bogie hoppers, Gate Stock, D600 Warship, LSWR Road Van and Steam Railmotor. Unless Kernow have altered the arrangements, which hasn't been published. Certainly Kernow have been recently working directly with Chinese manufacturers for the Bulleid diesel and the Turbot bogie engineers wagon, but the earlier commissions were still arranged via DJ Models I understood. Certainly the recent EP of the D600 Warship came via DJ Models

Then you’d be wrong, sorry.

 

About which bit of his post?

Edited December 31, 2017 by 57xx

[ndg910]

I was looking elsewhere and saw DJ Models are less involved with Kernow and it reminded of this discussion. I read Dave’s reply that he was still acting on this one but it’s now 6months and no update here (admittedly RMWeb is not Kernow’s preferred means of communicating), nothing in the newsletter and no FB update after the recent trip. Has anyone heard anything?

[The Stationmaster]

I was looking elsewhere and saw DJ Models are less involved with Kernow and it reminded of this discussion. I read Dave’s reply that he was still acting on this one but it’s now 6months and no update here (admittedly RMWeb is not Kernow’s preferred means of communicating), nothing in the newsletter and no FB update after the recent trip. Has anyone heard anything?

 

The steam railmotor has - to my knowledge - never been with DJM to the extent of them actually carrying out any work on it on behalf of Kernow.  I know it was scanned by someone with no connection whatsoever with DJM because I happened to be at Didcot GWS on the day the scanning took place and I am also aware that production of CADs has never had any connection at all with DJM.   Similarly, and as far as I'm aware,  Kernow have never mentioned in any literature or on their website who they are working with on development and production of the steam railmotor - in just the same way that they have never, for example, disclosed who they are working with on development and production of the Bulleid diesel.

[Horsetan]

....Kernow have never mentioned in any literature or on their website who they are working with on development and production of the steam railmotor...

The only thing that people can be relatively certain of is that it will come out of somewhere in China.

 

It's a bit like Gary Lineker's quote about football: "Football is a simple game. Twenty-two men chase a ball for 90 minutes and, at the end, the Germans always win."

[woodenhead]

The only thing that people can be relatively certain of is that it will come out of somewhere in China.

 

It's a bit like Gary Lineker's quote about football: "Football is a simple game. Twenty-two men chase a ball for 90 minutes and, at the end, the Germans always win."

The Germans used to always win.

 

Like model railways nothing is certain anymore until the model is in your hands.

[Free At Last]

What connection does DJM have with the DJ Models GWR Steam Railmotor then?

 

[Dunsignalling]

What connection does DJM have with the DJ Models GWR Steam Railmotor then?

There's absolutely no reference to a GWR Railmotor on DJM's May 2018 progress report, so presumably it's no longer the "DJ Models GWR Steam Railmotor". 

 

Also no reference to DJM in the Railmotor pages of KMRC's website.

 

John

Edited June 11, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[ndg910]

I really don’t know if DJ Models are involved but Kernow replied to me on FB saying final corrections are being made to the CADs. Am sure news will be posted once there is any.

[adb968008]

I really don’t know if DJ Models are involved but Kernow replied to me on FB saying final corrections are being made to the CADs. Am sure news will be posted once there is any.

Question was asked earlier in the thread, quoted below to save you looking...

 

I don't know much about these but one thing I've noticed with the CAD drawings, compared to the preserved steam carriage at Didcot, is that the CADs seem to show the underframe with two trusses, one each side close to the underframe edges, however the preserved carriage has 4 trusses, two being further in board. This I found when going through the Didcot news archive about the restoration and there is a very good photo of the stripped underframe, with the body removed, at Llangollen,  after shot blasting and the underframe clearly has 4 trusses. I'm sure Dave Jones, who is commissioned to produce this model, reads this thread.

Hi,

Then you’d be wrong, sorry.

Cheers

Dave

[Edwardian]

Perhaps there is something of a trend in retail commissioners dealing directly with the Chinese factory and cutting out the UK 'manufacturer'?

 

We saw Hattons do this with the popular Barclay and the excellent SE&CR P Class, which, latter in particular seems to have turned out rather better than Hattons' previous, manufacturer commissioned, steam loco.

 

The absence of any mention not only of the original manufacturing partner, but also of any manufacturing partners, certainly gives the impression that the GW Railmotor and the LSW Road Van are now being dealt with directly in conjunction with the factory. 

 

Whether this will lead to an improvement in prototype fidelity in Kernow's output remains to be seen, and I think I read that the CADs have had final revisions.  I don't think these have been shown publically, so I can only hope and pray that this time Kernow will go to the trouble to get things right.

 

If done well, this could be a really great model.  A first RTR railmotor and a first Kernow model with a pre-Grouping version (hitherto Kernow have really only produce mid-'30s onward condition models) is significant and very welcome.

 

Given the announced versions, it is also a model of which I will want more than one. 

 

It is a very exciting announcement and I eagerly await developments.

[woodenhead]

With the praise coming out about the Bulleid and indications the Warship has similar mechanisms i am hoping the trend continues with the Railmotor where I am happy for Rule #1 to apply on my mid 30s layout (well I have to, I have two sunshine livery engines!).

 

Still waiting on an EP before I pre-order.

[Oldddudders]

Perhaps there is something of a trend in retail commissioners dealing directly with the Chinese factory and cutting out the UK 'manufacturer'?

It certainly looks that way. Perhaps “learning the ropes” with an intermediary gives confidence that this is a manageable process, and given the complexity of the businesses that Kernow and Hattons etc already manage, they see a direct route to procurement. Prices to the consumer can only reduce as a result.

[Wickham Green]

It certainly looks that way. Perhaps “learning the ropes” with an intermediary gives confidence that this is a manageable process, and given the complexity of the businesses that Kernow and Hattons etc already manage, they see a direct route to procurement. Prices to the consumer can only reduce as a result.

Prices ....... reduce ? ................. c'mon, they might not go up QUITE so fast - but .................................. 

[No Decorum]

Prices ....... reduce ? ................. c'mon, they might not go up QUITE so fast - but .................................. 

 

There are savings but these seem to be put into improving quality rather than reducing prices. I’m happy with that.

[The Stationmaster]

Prices ....... reduce ? ................. c'mon, they might not go up QUITE so fast - but .................................. 

 

So maybe 'reduce' wasn't quite the right word but it was definitely the right meaning in OD's post for the simple reason that a level in the hierarchy of liaison with the factory ceases to be present, and that will save money and help control retail price rises.  So the 'reduction in price' is likely going to come in not facing such large price rises plus potentially getting more banks for the buck in quality terms etc.

[Clearwater]

So maybe 'reduce' wasn't quite the right word but it was definitely the right meaning in OD's post for the simple reason that a level in the hierarchy of liaison with the factory ceases to be present, and that will save money and help control retail price rises. So the 'reduction in price' is likely going to come in not facing such large price rises plus potentially getting more banks for the buck in quality terms etc.

And being able to accommodate the same fixed tooling and design costs against a smaller overall production run.

[Ian Hargrave]

This is an interesting conversation.Thus far two retail concerns have opted for the direct to factory route for a diversity of reasons.As to whether or not this is trend setting remains to be seen.Certainly one large retail concern is NOT going that way,citing complexities of process as the reason.

[woodenhead]

This is an interesting conversation.Thus far two retail concerns have opted for the direct to factory route for a diversity of reasons.As to whether or not this is trend setting remains to be seen.Certainly one large retail concern is NOT going that way,citing complexities of process as the reason.

Not to say they won't go that way later. 

 

All have used the third party route first, both Hattons and Kernow worked with the likes of Bachmann, DJM, Dapol and Heljan to create unique models before going it alone, Rails might be learning the ropes the same way, sensible to me.

[The Stationmaster]

Not to say they won't go that way later. 

 

All have used the third party route first, both Hattons and Kernow worked with the likes of Bachmann, DJM, Dapol and Heljan to create unique models before going it alone, Rails might be learning the ropes the same way, sensible to me.

 

I think it's as much down to relationships with the 'manufacturers' and their ability to deliver what the commissioner wants at the right price and time as it is to anything else.  Quite true I'm sure that working with a 'manufacturer' or what i would call a 'factor' for want of a better term can give an 'in' to both factory contact and the methodology of what's involved but equally once you are fully committed to undertaking research and specification yourself you are some way along the road to being able to deal direct with a factory.  Both Kernow and Hattons have, in their different ways, resources they can access for research and specification etc so they can go direct to factories with that knowledge under their belts and they can use it to check what the factory is designing and presenting as EPs etc.  It might well be that other concerns don't have that resource available to them so use a different route when commissioning or simply that they prefer t work with a 'manufacturer' with whom they have built a good working relationship.

[Ian Hargrave]

Not to say they won't go that way later. 

 

All have used the third party route first, both Hattons and Kernow worked with the likes of Bachmann, DJM, Dapol and Heljan to create unique models before going it alone, Rails might be learning the ropes the same way, sensible to me.

Well so it might appear to you.There is no shortage of experience there and this is a route not taken as a result of a conscious decision not to.

[jwd]

I've given up asking kernow at shows regarding updates to the Railmotor I just get a smile and a "still working on it" response.

 

Maybe in a decade they might reply "we were working on it"

 

Give it to someone else to do, it's taking forever....... or at least do what hattons did with the king and say we are no longer doing it, even Heljan gave the 'occasional' update on the night owl.

[JSpencer]

I've given up asking kernow at shows regarding updates to the Railmotor I just get a smile and a "still working on it" response.

 

Maybe in a decade they might reply "we were working on it"

 

Give it to someone else to do, it's taking forever....... or at least do what hattons did with the king and say we are no longer doing it, even Heljan gave the 'occasional' update on the night owl.

 

Kernow made a conscious decision last year to attack a backlog of items. Taking the big expensive projects, the Bulleids were first. Resources recovered from that will allow the D6xx to go into production (production of a few thousand units is another bigger 6 figure sum to sink in) and then doubtless their full attention will turn to this complex model.

[The Stationmaster]

I've given up asking kernow at shows regarding updates to the Railmotor I just get a smile and a "still working on it" response.

 

Maybe in a decade they might reply "we were working on it"

 

Give it to someone else to do, it's taking forever....... or at least do what hattons did with the king and say we are no longer doing it, even Heljan gave the 'occasional' update on the night owl.

 

Perhaps you could lend Kernow your expertise and money in order to progress the railmotor more rapidly?

[Oldddudders]

As I see it, we can either wait until Kernow is able to deliver the product, or we can go to another manufacturer and ask them nicely to make it for us, or we can each make it ourselves.

 

The choice is everyone’s. But I’ll wait for Kernow.

[Garethp8873]

Whenever the Railmotor comes, it comes. That's it.