Strathmore Route: Auldbar Road

[sulzer27jd]

Try this;

http://www.uksteam.info/gwr/hcodes.htm

 

The times with the / are passing times.

 

J

[scottystitch]

Try this;

http://www.uksteam.info/gwr/hcodes.htm

 

The times with the / are passing times.

 

J

Outstanding, thank you sir.

[scottystitch]

Here is the quick track plan I've drawn up, pretty much directly from the 25inch map. All sidings are pretty much correct scale length within the limits of the code 55 pointwork. 

 

 

The fiddle yard is just a quick cobble together for now.

 

From photographs (although not that readily apparent from the map), the track curves after the platforms and under the aquaduct, so the plan will need to be tweeked for that. 

 

Whilst the station and the yard are uncompressed, there will need to be a deep cutting immediately right of the sidings to act as a scenic break, much closer than it is in reality. The plan is presented above in 14ft length, but 3 boards of 5ft length could allow for a bit of relief in this respect.

 

My thoughts are to run it in transition era with the station still open, to allow for stopping services, as well as goods traffic still using the goods yard. This will allow me to use the same stock that I am building up for my garage layout of Perth Station ('62-'64). For exhibitions (something I've never done so far), the idea would be to have express passenger trains running through, local Dundee/Brechin/Arbroath to Forfar/Perth stopping trains calling at the station, through freight (block workings) and stopping pick up freight trains to set down and shunt in the yard.

 

I would also like to run it in privatisation era, supposing that the Strathmore route wasn't closed and was still the main route into Aberdeen from Perth, which would allow for Voyagers, HSTs, 66s, 67s, 37s, 47,s, 170s, 185s etc. Could be interesting, although unless there was some kind of engineers siding, the goods yard sidings would be largely redundant.

 

Thoughts welcome....

[JohnR]

I have attached the 1958 WTT as that will give an indication to the level of traffic and might help you design a suitable fiddleyard. 

 

J

Would there not also have been a freight for the former Arbroath line? Unless I've missed it I cant see anything in the timetable.

[scottystitch]

Would there not also have been a freight for the former Arbroath line? Unless I've missed it I cant see anything in the timetable.

I'm not sure, but I think the Arbroath line was perhaps closed? I'd need to check...

[JohnR]

I'm not sure, but I think the Arbroath line was perhaps closed? I'd need to check...

 

Closed to passengers in 1956, but remained open for freight until 1965. It was severed just north of St. Vigeans Jn, and worked from Guthrie on one engine in steam. 

[scottystitch]

Closed to passengers in 1956, but remained open for freight until 1965. It was severed just north of St. Vigeans Jn, and worked from Guthrie on one engine in steam. 

 Thanks, John.

 

I would imagine at most then, one pick up freight, each way, per day.....Perhaps it would combine with a similar working from Montrose/Brechin(Bridge of Dun) at Guthrie Junction?

[sulzer27jd]

Freight from Arbroath was historically worked only as far as Guthrie. It would then be worked as per the WTT. This arrangement stems back to the opening on the Tay Bridge and was a Caledonian (then LMS) service that maintained joint running over the Dundee & Arbroath.

 

The Arbroath & Forfar Railway book by Niall Ferguson is essential reading if you are to include local services to Arbroath.

 

A personal bug-bear of mine is that the Strathmore route is all but unknown. It is little photographed and there is limited information about it - especially for a once very significant express route. When it is discussed it is usually in connection with the A4's seeing out their last days working out of Aberdeen. As an ex-Caley/LMS route it was very quickly - post nationalisation - brought under the influence of Dundee, with crews working a Dundee, Aberdeen, Perth and Dundee roster using LNER power from both 62B and 61B. The Peppercorn A2's were regular power over the line for many years, in fact, whenever you read comments like "The A2's spent much of their lives as stand-by at Dundee Tay Bridge", what was actually happening was they were being used either over the Strathmore route or working overnight when our visitors from the south were still tucked up in their beds!

 

Re your plan - I would suggest you consider a trailing cross-over on the way into the fiddle yard, that way no matter which line you go into the train can either form another service and do another circuit in the same direction or can be reversed out and access the opposite mainline.

 

John

[JohnR]

I havnt got my copy of Arbroath and Forfar Railway by Niall Ferguson to hand, but I recall that it was worked by a Forfar based locomotive.

[scottystitch]

Freight from Arbroath was historically worked only as far as Guthrie. It would then be worked as per the WTT. This arrangement stems back to the opening on the Tay Bridge and was a Caledonian (then LMS) service that maintained joint running over the Dundee & Arbroath.

 

The Arbroath & Forfar Railway book by Niall Ferguson is essential reading if you are to include local services to Arbroath.

 

A personal bug-bear of mine is that the Strathmore route is all but unknown. It is little photographed and there is limited information about it - especially for a once very significant express route. When it is discussed it is usually in connection with the A4's seeing out their last days working out of Aberdeen. As an ex-Caley/LMS route it was very quickly - post nationalisation - brought under the influence of Dundee, with crews working a Dundee, Aberdeen, Perth and Dundee roster using LNER power from both 62B and 61B. The Peppercorn A2's were regular power over the line for many years, in fact, whenever you read comments like "The A2's spent much of their lives as stand-by at Dundee Tay Bridge", what was actually happening was they were being used either over the Strathmore route or working overnight when our visitors from the south were still tucked up in their beds!

 

Re your plan - I would suggest you consider a trailing cross-over on the way into the fiddle yard, that way no matter which line you go into the train can either form another service and do another circuit in the same direction or can be reversed out and access the opposite mainline.

 

John

I agree wholeheartedly reference the Strathmore Route being overlooked, it is very difficult to find images and information prior to the A4s and the end of steam. Thank you for the information regarding the A2s and the engine rostering over the route.

Rreference the fiddle yard, the centre road is bi-directional for that purpose to allow trains to be reveresed with a different engine (or the engine changed ends). I take it that's what you mean? As I said the fiddle yard is just cobbled together to give a representation just now, and so I can see what sort of capicty there is. I may have the centre three or four roads bi-directional, and also a number of tracks in each direction cassetted.

 

But a set of trailing crossovers may be a simpler way to do it, although it may preclude two trains entering and exiting the yard simultaineously?

Edited December 23, 2014 by scottystitch

[scottystitch]

 

 

Good luck with the model

Graham

 

PS there are a few photos listed in the Norrie Forrest collection - see 037/4 and onwards in the list. Available from the Transport Treasury for a modest fee ... haven't seen these particular shots, but usually they are worthwhile.

Many thanks again for the Forrest Collection heads up. Some excellent images, very clear as well. I bought all 7 images, albeit without being able to see them beforehand, and I wasn't disappointed. I assume I'm not allowed to scan and post the pics, so I'll try and describe what I see in them, for those interested.

 

1 - a view of the southern platform looking east. The rearmost two carriages of a train is stopped The Brake/Guard's vehicle is being loaded by a couple of porters.  I've no idea what the coach is, I don't think it's something I've seen before. The other coach looks like a Gresley BG, it is numbered E70743 E  The platform looks a bit lower than I'm used to, maybe only half way to three quarters of the way up the Gresley Bogie. In addition the porter is standing next to the coach and his knee is about level or below the footboard. The platform slopes from back to front.

 

2 - a view of the southern platform from the northern platform, looking east, showing the platform building, a wooden store shed of some description, and a substantial brick store with a peaked roof. I count at least four luggage barrows parked next to it. There is what looks like a set of scales beside this building. The road bridge is well illustrated as are the steps leading down to the northern platform. There is also a set of steps leading down to the southern platform. The trackwork and ballast is very neat and tidy. a barrow crossing, fabricated from sleepers, crosses the railway between each platform. Through the bridge there is a good view of the southern goods yard sidings. The goods shed is not visible.

 

3 - a view of the southern platform waiting room. Very clear and should make it straight forward to replicate.

 

4 - a view of the northern platform, including a smaller waiting shelter. The very tall signal post which is upper quadrant and on a lattice tower/pole is clearly illustrated. Again the steps down to the platform is shown as is the roof of the main station building. Again the platform looks quite low. The northern siding can be seen through the bridge.  The trailing crossover is between the mainlines is very apparent.A wall behind the northern platform is shown well.

 

5 - a shot of the flower bed with vegetation laid out to spell AULDBAR ROAD. Again the wall is shown well, as is the barrow crossing.

 

6 - A shot of the goods yard from the southern side. The two southern sidings are visible, but the goods shed is gone completely. The northern siding loading dock (as was predicted by an earlier poster) runs along side it, but it doesn't look like it's been used for a while. The Southern siding that did have the shed, has a number planked open wagons and it looks like one van. It also still has a loading guage bracket in place.An Up signal on a high post is visible in the distance. There is a hut or shed near the camera, which looks like it could be an admin office for handling goods?  At the eastern end of the goods sidings there is wood or forest on the southern side of the railway. This is good, because it will help with a scenic break

 

7 - A view from southern side of the railway looking north at the Main Station building and signal box. The buffer stop of the western end of the norther siding is visible. The brickwork of the signal box is well illustrated. A set of stone steps come down from the road towards the signal box level. There is a level marker indicating level ground to the west and 1 in 870(?) to the east.

 

I'm heartened by these images as they definitely give me something to work with, I just hope I can do Auldbar Road reasonable justice.

 

Scotty

Edited December 23, 2014 by scottystitch

[pH]

A personal bug-bear of mine is that the Strathmore route is all but unknown. It is little photographed and there is limited information about it - especially for a once very significant express route. When it is discussed it is usually in connection with the A4's seeing out their last days working out of Aberdeen.

 

Associated with that, and while I happily admit I chased the A4s on that route, it always grated a bit that the "three hour" description was emphasised, as if it was something new. The LMS ran 3 hour trains on that route 25 years earlier, using 'Jubilees' (BR power class six versus the A4's power class eight), admittedly with one less coach.

 

Edit to chnge power classes to words. '8' followed by a ')' translates to a weird smiley.

Edited December 23, 2014 by pH

[scottystitch]

Associated with that, and while I happily admit I chased the A4s on that route, it always grated a bit that the "three hour" description was emphasised, as if it was something new. The LMS ran 3 hour trains on that route 25 years earlier, using 'Jubilees' (BR power class six versus the A4's power class eight), admittedly with one less coach.

 

Edit to chnge power classes to words. '8' followed by a ')' translates to a weird smiley.

And tellingly, with the Strathmore route ripped up, Scotrail can barely achieve 3hours today via the coastal route.

[Mad McCann]

Y'know what? I reckon that with this route restored, electrification throughout between GQS and ABD with Javelin-type units; we could easily achieve 2- hour schedules on the route. If the West Coast oil finds ever bear real fruit it would make great sense. Even without it does! 

[JohnR]

I dont think Javelin's would be able to get up to 140 mph on this stretch. What would be better would be Baby-Pendolinos, plus the lineside balisades to enable the Tilting.

[Mad McCann]

Aye. Open to ideas. Javelin was just in mind as a generic type rather than a specific option.

[scottystitch]

I dont think Javelin's would be able to get up to 140 mph on this stretch. What would be better would be Baby-Pendolinos, plus the lineside balisades to enable the Tilting.

Depending on alignment of any new station at Forfar it would, I believe, be quite possible. It's more or less a straight run between Forfar and Stanley Junction. Assuming no intermediate stops in between......

[sulzer27jd]

Tilting? Outwith the approach to Forfar there is not a curve to speak of for 60 miles.

[scottystitch]

I meant 140mph running......

[Torper]

Did anything come of the proposed Auldbar Road model?

 

DT

[scottystitch]

Did anything come of the proposed Auldbar Road model?

 

DT

Sadly not. Life, illness, divorce, house move, more illness and lack of time and lack of space gets in the way, unfortunately.  I do, however, have tentative plans to have a chat with the Aberdeen MRC, when I find the time, to see if their N-Gauge section would be interested in having a go at it if I were to join. 

[Torper]

"The best laid schemes of mice and men gang aft agley".......   Sorry you've had such a rotten time of it.  It really did sound like a good plan, so I do hope that you get the opportunity to pursue it in the not too distant future.  It would be ideal for Aberdee MRC!

 

DT

[GentlemanJim]

I'm not sure if this is the right place for my question, but this is the only (modelling) reference to Auldbar Road on the web. After years of building up courage and technique books I finally took the plunge and started scratch building buildings. First - Southwold station - basically a box with a roof (and I had plans). Flushed with success and a copy of 'The Arbroath & Forfar Railway' by Niall Ferguson I guessed/estimated the dimensions of the shelter at Auldbar Road station and came away with a perfectly reasonable model in what now looks like c.5.5mm to the foot. Not deterred (or likely to show the shelter to anyone) I thought the station building would be a step up. There would appear to be 3/4 photos of the front and sides - one of which is included here - but none of the rear of the building. My searching doesn't even throw up a similar station building. Can someone point me in the right direction ?

 

[Caley Jim]

There are several photographs here, in the CRA collection, of Auldbar Road, two of which are reproduced in The True Line No.93, accompanying an article on 'The Faskins of Auldbar Road'.  Not sure what access you can get to the SLS collection if not a member of one of the relevant line societies.   Alternatively you may be able to get copies from the CRA archive.

 

Jim