Southern Maunsell Coaching Stock discussion

[brushman47544]

Another slight variation on the position of brake coaches in Maunsell sets was found with the 4 car Restriction 1 sets used on the Reading - Redhill service up until the mid 1960s.

 

In the early 1960s a decision was made to split each of these BSK+CK+CK+BSK sets into two completely separate 2 car sets, each now formed BSK+CK. Half of the old set retained it's original set number whilst the other half was allocated a brand new set number. However the revised sets still usually ran together in pairs as 4 coach trains but with the BSKs now coupled together, brake end to brake end  in the middle of the formation i.e. CK+BSK+BSK+CK. 

 

The reason was apparently to ensure that all the guard's/luggage accommodation was situated in the middle of the train at stations to help the platform staff - but this seems very strange after 30+ years in service on the same route in their original formation

 

I always wondered why they did this, so thanks. But equally if it suddenly became necessary to marshall the guards van(s) in the centre of the train, why didn't they create proper 4-car sets in that formation, rather than risk a set being marshalled incorrectly? And when the Bulleid and Mk1 3-car sets were used on the line alongside the Maunsells, they were in the standard formation BSK+CK+BSK.

Edited February 24, 2015 by brushman47544

[Bodmin Bob]

I always wondered why they did this, so thanks. But equally if it suddenly became necessary to marshall the guards van(s) in the centre of the train, why didn't they create proper 4-car sets in that formation, rather than risk a set being marshalled incorrectly? And when the Bulleid and Mk1 3-car sets were used on the line alongside the Maunsells, they were in the standard formation BSK+CK+BSK.

Interesting question - as you say,  Bulleid or Mk1 3 car sets were not reformed when they were used on the same route. Maybe the distance between the guards vans in the original 4 car sets caused operational difficulties as station staff numbers were reduced

 

In some cases you do see pictures of the revised Maunsell 2 car sets running on their own as just a 2 car train though 

[bécasse]

The Reading-Tonbridge line trains concerned inter-worked with the Brighton-Tonbridge service which passed through tunnels in the Tunbridge Wells area that required Restriction 1 stock. Withdrawals following a BRB edict about vehicles older than 40(?) years left a shortage of suitable Restriction 1 stock and the SR's answer was to split all the sets that were formed BSK-CK-CK-BSK and were thus suitable for splitting. So far as was possible the trains concerned were still formed of four carriages using two of the "new" sets and sometimes these formations had one or even both brake vans toward the centre of the train, for other trains though only one 2-car set was available and some overcrowding became inevitable.

[SR Rich]

I have a question about carriage diagrams in David Gould's book, Maunsell's Steam Carriage Stock, I am modeling some brake third high window carriages,the options are diagrams 2102, 2110 or 2113, what I would like to know is if the circle with a cross in it in, in the guards compartment represents a stove or something else!

[2ManySpams]

Generally it means it's condemned and withdrawn from service. Many of the photos taken in that book were taken in sidings when the big wooden-framed coach cull occurred.

[SR Rich]

What I meant was the line drawings of the interior layout in the back or the book (pages 140-143), what does the circle with the cross in it, in the guard/luggage area of the brake carriages represent.

[2ManySpams]

Guard's brake wheel?

[SR Rich]

Thank you for your help, I was a little curious because some of the drawings have the symbol and some do not, in the guard/luggage area.

[StephenB]

Can anyone point me in the direction of a list of Maunsell BCK and BSK produced by Hornby, please?

Many thanks.

 

Stephen

[Tww2015]

The Reading-Tonbridge line trains concerned inter-worked with the Brighton-Tonbridge service which passed through tunnels in the Tunbridge Wells area that required Restriction 1 stock. Withdrawals following a BRB edict about vehicles older than 40(?) years left a shortage of suitable Restriction 1 stock and the SR's answer was to split all the sets that were formed BSK-CK-CK-BSK and were thus suitable for splitting. So far as was possible the trains concerned were still formed of four carriages using two of the "new" sets and sometimes these formations had one or even both brake vans toward the centre of the train, for other trains though only one 2-car set was available and some overcrowding became inevitable.

Hi,

 

There is a picture in 'Branch lines to Tunbridge Wells' Vic Mitchell & Keith Smith, showing a six coach train from Eridge to Tonbridge which looks like 3 "half" sets 190 leading.Brakes at each end and in the middle so spoilt for choice.

[brushman47544]

Can anyone point me in the direction of a list of Maunsell BCK and BSK produced by Hornby, please?

Many thanks.

 

Stephen

 

I posted a list of Hornby Maunsells in BR Green here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/6283-maunsell-carriage-set-numbers/?p=85001 if it helps. There may have been a couple of others in more recent train packs, but not separate coaches. Other liveries not included and you'll need to identify the brakes from the vehicle numbers.

[Roger K]

Question related to this topic please;

 

What coaches and in what liveries would be hauled by a blue as built Merchant Navy, bearing in mind we are talking about a short period; Feb 1949-May 1951. To early for BR green Mk 1s so presumably Bulleid's or Maunsell's, But what livery?

 

Loco I'm specifically talking about is the new GF East Asiatic Company in N gauge.

 

Any help would be appreciated as I'm getting confused!

 

Thank you

 

 

[Karhedron]

Crimson and cream Bulleids would be one option. Although the SR wasn't keen on this livery, it was standard on the post-nationalisation Bulleids.

 

Mark 1s were only introduced in 1951 so would be right at the end of your period of interest. They were also painted crimson and cream when new and did not receive green livery until around 1957.

 

Maunsell coaches would have been around as well but probably not in the liveries offered by Dapol. The original lined green livery would have been over 20 years old by then and would have been repainted into plain olive, then malachite green and lastly crimson and cream (none of which have yet been produced by Dapol).

 

As with the Mk1s, Bulleids and Maunsells would not have received BR(SR) green until the late 50s by which time your loco in question would have been rebuilt and lost its air-smoothed casing.

 

Crimson and Cream Bulleid coaches are probably your easiest option if you want RTR coaches without repainting.

[Graham_Muz]

Just to add to the post above the Farish Bullied's are based on those built by British Railways post 1949 and feature the deeper 15" window vents rather than the SR 10" deep vents so indeed as stated above correct for your time period 1949 to 1951 but not an earlier one.

Many of the Maunsell coaches would still have been in malachite green during that period too.

[moose4675]

Hi Chaps,

 

I am interested to know if anyone knows whether 'P set' 199 ever carried a crimson & cream livery or was it always Green?

 

I have made attempts to research this but have not as yet been able to find any photos of 199 in C&C.

 

Many thanks

 

Regards

 

Lee

[2ManySpams]

Hi Chaps,

 

I am interested to know if anyone knows whether 'P set' 199 ever carried a crimson & cream livery or was it always Green?

 

I have made attempts to research this but have not as yet been able to find any photos of 199 in C&C.

 

Many thanks

 

Regards

 

Lee

199 spent a fair while down in the North Cornwall area and a few of those sets did carry a C&C livery. I'm away from home at the moment but will have a flick through my N Cornwall and southern coaches books when next back.

[moose4675]

199 spent a fair while down in the North Cornwall area and a few of those sets did carry a C&C livery. I'm away from home at the moment but will have a flick through my N Cornwall and southern coaches books when next back.

Many thanks Chris, that's much appreciated.

[2ManySpams]

So far I've looked through a handful of the books I have and haven't (yet) come across refs or photos of 199 in C&C.

 

I have found set 27 in C&C in May 1957 and a photo of set 25 as a half and half.

[moose4675]

So far I've looked through a handful of the books I have and haven't (yet) come across refs or photos of 199 in C&C.

I have found set 27 in C&C in May 1957 and a photo of set 25 as a half and half.

Thanks Chris,

I am looking to use the Hornby Maunsell p set 199 in a 1954/55ish era. I have made up set 27 in c&c but was looking to see whether set 199 was always in Green to use it realistically alongside my c&c set 27. I'm assuming then that set 199 may have gone straight from malachite to BR Green, or was it a set that was kept in revarnished malachite? I have also not been able to find a photo of set 199 in c&c in my limited book & DVD collection.

Regards

Lee

[2ManySpams]

Thanks Chris,

I am looking to use the Hornby Maunsell p set 199 in a 1954/55ish era. I have made up set 27 in c&c but was looking to see whether set 199 was always in Green to use it realistically alongside my c&c set 27. I'm assuming then that set 199 may have gone straight from malachite to BR Green, or was it a set that was kept in revarnished malachite? I have also not been able to find a photo of set 199 in c&c in my limited book & DVD collection.

Regards

Lee

Sets 22 and 27 seen at Padstow in C&C c1950.

Set 23 was also photographed in C&C in June 1952 and July 1954.

[autocoach]

I have noticed a Hornby R4744 Railroad SR Bulleid livery Brake Coach in the latest Hattons newsletter priced at GBP 18.00. It is numbered 3563. This running number would appear to put it in 1925 Thanet  R1 stock according to Mike King's Illustrated History of Southern coaches.  There is also a footnote that this running number brake coach was destroyed by enemy action or accident.

 

Is this new or something fanciful on Hornby's part.  After all it is in their Railroad range. 

 

This is the Hornby illustration: http://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/railroad-sr-brake-coach.html. and Hattons http://www.ehattons.com/164274/Hornby_R4744_RailRoad_SR_Brake_Coach/StockDetail.aspx

 

Hattons lists them as new in stock. 

 

Does anyone have any further details of differences between the Railroad version and the standard detailed version. The first obvious one is that the door handles are not picked out in brass.

 

I have too many Hornby Maunsell coaches already and am not a "collector" to go chasing after one unless this is truly different and could be used on my North Cornwall and Bodmin lines out of Padstow/Wadebridge.

Edited January 20, 2016 by autocoach

[Oldddudders]

Ken - This is Railroad, so forget it. It is one of the old-style alleged Maunsell coaches. Do not be misled.

[2ManySpams]

Ken, stay well clear of those 'Southern' coaches. They are a complete work of fiction that dates back many years to a time when Hornby sold the same coach in a variety of company liveries. Great for trainsets but IMO should be priced as such. The fact this rubbish is retailing for nearly £20 is poor.

[autocoach]

 

I have too many Hornby Maunsell coaches already and am not a "collector" to go chasing after one unless this is truly different and could be used on my North Cornwall and Bodmin lines out of Padstow/Wadebridge.

Thanks for the responses but as I said above.

 

I had no intention of buying any of these unless they really were truly something new and accurate and fit my locale and time period. I was not aware that Hornby had produced these train set items before. 

[chris newman]

Hi

Thanks for taking on and explaining this subject--as an N Gauge modeller it makes things SR a bit more understandable-- but I would like to ask a question re post 32 "but post nationalisation you could certainly see mixed rakes of blood and custard with BR green."1) would the Blood & Custard Stock had "S" suffix after running numbers??? and 2)How long/late did Blood and Custard last before repaint to SR Green??? MTIA

 

Chris