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Train set to CSD T 211.0


Neil
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Being in the mood for a bit of butchery and in possession of a drawing and a suitable victim; I aim to turn one of these .....

 

post-6793-0-40460900-1419773842_thumb.jpg

 

.... into one of these. I particularly like the opportunity to add a star to the front. Here's what I've done so far.

 

The rubber band drive Piko chassis has been stripped of its almost functional parts, and a rough assesment made of the body's potential.

 

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Though far too long I think that I'll be able to use the cab and the bonnet sides, but obviously some serious cutting will be involved. Similarly the chassis frame will be for the chop.

 

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Too late to go back now.

 

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Intriguingly the buffers are made of rubber, and have a wonderfully surreal quality to them when twanged. I may reuse them just for the hell of it.

 

It's not all destruction; the reconstructive work has already started on the chassis frames.

 

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How do you intend to power it Neil?

 

steve

 

Well that depends on how much space is left under the bonnet after I put the portly Piko on a diet. I have a spare Limby motor bogie, spot on for wheelbase but if that won't fit then I'll probably cobble something up myself.

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Neil, I mean this in the gentlest and kindest way - do you really think it's worth the trouble?

 

Take a look at these pictures (sorry, haven't time to dig out the colour slide equivalents).  To my eyes the bonnet shape, cab shape, cab roof profile and deep bufferbeams are very distinctive for this prototype - and your model differs in all important respects.  (If you only have a side elevation drawing then these shapes may not be obvious).

 

Given that you have to discard the chassis anyway, why bother trying to reshape the body into something that (without wishing to denigrate your modelling skills) is probably going to look like a poor representation at best?  At least you have a passable American outline shunter, which could have found its way to Europe.  Besides, if you want a T211.0, then the Piko-Gützold model looks the part and has excellent slow-running.

 

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If you insist of converting to something Czech, then perhaps the more recent 704 class may be a better end product - though motorising under its low bonnet may prove chalenging.

 

post-10122-0-26718200-1419812269_thumb.jpg

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Thanks for the concern Eddie. Is this the Piko Gutzold shunter you suggest? If so I think that there would still be some hacking to do. I realise that it may seem to be a lot of work, and that the result will at best be a look alike rather than a millimetre perfect copy, but it's just the sort of challenge I enjoy. Your photos will be a huge help in capturing the shape and proportions of the shunter.

 

Martin; the self destructing, Will E Coyote, mk1 power-plant has been supplanted by a range of ever more reliable units. Though lacking in the comedy value of my first effort, they can generally totter back and forth a few times before requiring attention. The rebuilt mk1 (thanks for the wheels) has required a bit lot of tuning, but now runs well. Despite only driving on one axle it's happy shoving a few of my Belgian wagons up and down my teat length of Peco flexitrack.

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The Piko shunter you link to is one of these below

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_%C4%8Cesk%C3%A9_dr%C3%A1hy_locomotive_classes

 

 

I have one too....

 

http://ngrm-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/10778-what-do-i-have-here-then/?hl=piko&do=findComment&comment=203113

 

A link to a thread I started elsewhere some time ago, with some useful info?

 

I note ,my motor is differnt to yours? Has your Piko chassis been modified in this respect?

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I think that if you take a look at the Piko shunter I linked to and your own example you'll see that although the bonnet is similar to the T221.0 the cab isn't, and for that matter the underframe differs too as the model lacks the rear steps and cab access. The model I linked to has I suspect been remotored which would explain the difference.

 

I've done a spot of swift research and the Piko BN150 model appears to be based on three prototype locos one mechanical and two with hydraulic transmission. There are photos of mechanical here and hydraulic here. 

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To go back a few posts, yes, that is the Piko-Gützold model I have (somewhere - it's a while since it last saw the light of day).

 

Comparing it to the prototypes and understanding the variations of the prototypes themselves is to open up a can of worms!  No doubt some are covered in the relevant volume of "Encyclopedie Zelenice" - but that isn't one I have/have access to.  As I see it the main types and their classifications were:

 

T211.0 (700) - CKD diesel mechanical, introduced 1959*, 127 built.

T211.1 (701) } 

T211.2 (701) } - DM rebuilds of T211.0, introduced 1977, 73 built

TU29.0 (700.95) - narrow gauge version of T211.0, subsequently rebuilt as 701.95 (3) 

T212.0 (702) - ZTS diesel mechanical development of T211.0, introduced 1968, 78 built

T212.1 (703) - rebuild of T212.1 with hydro-mechanical transmission, introduced 1978 (27)

TU29.1 (702.95) narrow gauge version of T212.0, 1 built.

 

*Please don't quote me on dates and numbers built, records differ.

 

In addition, CKD built many other BN150 type locomotives for industry, both within Czechoslovakia and for the DDR (see here: http://www.rangierdiesel.de/index.php?nav=1410214&lang=1), Poland, USSR, Roumania, Bulgaria, Albania, China and Iraq.

 

As far as the T211.1001 prototype is concerned, I'm not sure what became of it and it doesn't appear in "Atlas Lokomotiv 2" (a historical survey of Czech diesels and electrics published in the early 'seventies).

 

To add to the confusion, some 701 and 702 locomotives have been renumbered into the 600 series (i.e. 701.6xx and 702.6xx).  But that's nothing compared to the fairly drastic rebuilds into the 799, 798 and 797 classes in the Czech Republic and 199 in Slovakia.  I probably have more information buried in various books and magazines, but would struggle to put together a full history of the type.

 

Anyway enough waffling, here's some pictures.

 

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702 951-5, a metre-gauge version based at Poprad for the High Tatras network.

 

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703 036-4

 

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797 705-1 appears to be a privately-owned variation on the storage battery theme.

 

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The first experimental reconstruction into the 799 class took place before the break-up of the former Czechosolovakia, but the programme appears to have been extended by CD.

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Unlike the Czech conversions, ZSR 199 401-1 has retained the original T211.0 cab shape.

 

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Hey folks,

I am still amazed to see how popular Czech modeling is becoming outside of CZ, I dunno how elsewhere but here on RM web for sure :)

 

Both prototypes have not lived past 1989, in regards to US/UK > UNRA stuff on Czechoslovak tracks very few, mostly what was left there after war until 1948, when the regime started any import of anything from "non friendly" countries was rather limited.

The old PIKO/Guetzold model was the prototype for the T211 series, this prototype had a larger drivers cab. The model was very good for that time, had one myself, although could not use it when family watched TV as I've taken out the filter coils and it become an effective TV jammer.

 

Model:

T211: http://hekttor.biz/index.php?lng=CZE&m=1&act=kaho&kat=1&kod=87019 12GBP less post!!!

Build pics http://galerie.hekttor.biz/thumbnails.php?album=41&page=1

or: http://www.dk-model.cz/web/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=253&category_id=27&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1&lang=cs

 

Power: http://www.pojezdypg.cz/index.php?id=stavebnice-pojezdu-t2110-h0 otherwise self made or Bullant, there are many motors that would fit into the narrow and low space, the loco won't have much pull either as the real thing, they were originally designed to pull 1 - 3 cars to replace human or animal power on mid to large companies sidings.

 

704: http://www.lepty.cz/petr/eshop/1-1-HO/3-2-Motorove-lokomotivy/5/1987-Motorova-lokomotiva-704-0xx-x-HO-stavebnice 17GBP, unmotorised here: http://www.lepty.cz/petr/eshop/1-1-HO/3-2-Motorove-lokomotivy/5/1994-Motorova-lokomotiva-704-402-7-HO-maketa

 

 

I have somewhere front view drawing. Good luck with your built Neil!

 

T 211.0001 Foto ÚDI, collection: Jaroslav Wagner, source: dopravniliteratura.cz

733661.jpg

 

@ EddieB: nice collection of pics :)

 

BR and PF 2015

Marian

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More plastic action from the workbench. The cab and bonnet are coming together, but the joints really need to harden before I go any further. 

 

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Once set the cab front and rear will need to be sanded flat, and the bonnet nose will require it's rounded corners forming. Then I'll be able to sort out the cab roof, add thin overlays front and rear, pierce the windows and assemble the bonnet. Put it into a couple of sentences and it doesn't sound too intimidating, does it?

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To bring matters up to date here are a few photos I took this morning. You'll notice that the cab now has a roof, the bonnet's basic shape has been formed and that I've started the fill and sand process to refine all the joints and rid the shell of sanding marks.

 

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Thoughts have now turned to livery. I'm looking at a work weary, sold out of service version of this scheme, seen here too with better colour balance.

Edited by Neil
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WOW!

 

Don't forget to bring the chassis to lower edge of the axle boxes, see Eddie's pic:

 

Thank you.

 

I gave some thought to this at the planning stage, and I'm not sure that I will, let me explain. One of the things that currently fascinates me about our hobby is the different ethos that seems to inhabit standard gauge and narrow gauge model making. The narrow gauge world, by and large tolerates freelance models or those which have a look of a particular prototype without being an inch perfect copy. Standard gauge model making seems to play by different rules where the aim of the game is to get as close as possible to the real thing, with the bare minimum of compromise. By accepting the cheapo shunter as my starting point, I'm already accepting compromises (if I wanted a scale model I would start from scratch) so I'm using this build as an experiment to see if a model embodying the narrow gauge ethos can cut it. Time will tell.

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The shunter needs a chassis, the original had HUGE flanges, the wrong wheelbase, a motor way too big to fit in the slimmed down body and rubber band drive of dubious quality. Early on I'd hoped that one of my Limby motor bogies might fit; it wont, too wide, so I've made a start on my own from 30 thou black plasticard.

 

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It's a simple open bottomed box with a hole at each corner, large enough to take a brass bush.

 

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Square section evergreen strip braces the corners while underneath short pieces of plasticard help stop the chassis from flexing.

 

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One of the axles ended up a bit skewed, so I drifted the hole out using a diamond burr like a file, popped the brass bush in, and when properly lined up solvent welded a small puncture patch of plasticard to the rear to stop the bearing wiggling to and fro in the elongated hole.

 

Next up, fix bearings, gear on one axle, set back to back measurements, and work out exact position of the motor/flywheel.

 

 

 

 

 

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More work, brass chassis bush faces filed to wafer thin, wheel insulating bushes cut flush with the rear of the wheels, axles cut and filed to length; all assembled and fitted into chassis.

 

post-6793-0-08796700-1421176439_thumb.jpg

 

From the underside. I had to relieve one of the bracing plates to clear the Tenshodo spud gear.

 

post-6793-0-30503400-1421176651_thumb.jpg

 

The splice plates on the inside of the sideframes were ground away to clear the wheels.

 

post-6793-0-96874000-1421176683_thumb.jpg

 

This allows the wheels to revolve freely.

 

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Finally a check to ensure that the loco will ride at the correct height above the rails.

 

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