BlueRail Trains - Bluetooth Locomotive Control

[Ron Ron Ron]

I have no technical understanding of the Bluetooth technology, but from what little I know, or have read, I thought that audio was treated differently from other data transmissions, even under BT4.

i.e. Not allowing multiple pairings.

[Walker]

Good evening,

 

I am new here, after more than 40 years of "abstinence" I am just going to start again.

 

The first step of course is to gather as much info as necessary about what one intends to to.

 

My favourite gauge is N.

I want to use BlueRail.

 

Since in the other forum it is not allowed to ask questions, I put my first question in here.

 

Regarding the BlueRail chip - does anyboy know if there is being planned to develop a smaller chip that fits N scale as well ?

 

The actual chip is way too big to be used in N scale efficiently.

 

And as far as I understand the principle there is no other way than installing the chip in the locos to get the opportunity to run more than one train simultaneouly on the same track.

 

Using the chip separately outside the loco it is not more than a transmitter for one loco, just like in normal DC systems.

 

Maybe there exist some new findings meanwile...

 

Kind regards,

 

Roland from Germany

 

( I hope my English is sufficient enough to express what i want to know and do...)

[Ron Ron Ron]

Roland, the original BlueRail board (chip) is now out of production.

A new smaller board is going to be produced at a later date. That could be in a few months, or a year away? BlueRail Trains should be making an announcement soon.

 

Regarding N gauge. It has always been their intention to have a small scale board, but it might be a while coming.

[Nile_Griffith]

Good evening,

 

I am new here, after more than 40 years of "abstinence" I am just going to start again.

 

The first step of course is to gather as much info as necessary about what one intends to to.

 

My favourite gauge is N.

I want to use BlueRail.

 

Since in the other forum it is not allowed to ask questions, I put my first question in here.

 

Regarding the BlueRail chip - does anyboy know if there is being planned to develop a smaller chip that fits N scale as well ?

 

The actual chip is way too big to be used in N scale efficiently.

 

And as far as I understand the principle there is no other way than installing the chip in the locos to get the opportunity to run more than one train simultaneouly on the same track.

 

Using the chip separately outside the loco it is not more than a transmitter for one loco, just like in normal DC systems.

 

Maybe there exist some new findings meanwile...

 

Kind regards,

 

Roland from Germany

 

( I hope my English is sufficient enough to express what i want to know and do...)

 

 

To confirm what Ron has said, there is a promised new smaller format board on it's way.

 

However might I suggest you drop BlueRail an email making the same inquiries. Now thats not me promising you that that BlueRail will reply to you with a whole raft of specifications and dimensions, but it does need potential customers like yourself to make BlueRail aware of what interest is out there for their system. A handful of product evangelists like myself and Ron can only shout so loud.

 

Who knows what you might be rewarded with for a few minutes of effort.

 

Regards

 

Nile

[Robin2]

My favourite gauge is N.

I want to use BlueRail.

Is it essential that you use BlueRail or will any type of wireless control be OK?

 

...R

[Walker]

Is it essential that you use BlueRail or will any type of wireless control be OK?

 

...R

 

Well, if any other system offers the same or similar possibilities, and if the rx/sc chips are small enough to be installed in N scale locos - diesel as well as steam - it is not essential.

 

Roland

Edited March 22, 2018 by Walker

[Robin2]

and if the rx/sc chips are small enough to be installed in N scale locos - diesel as well as steam - it is not essential.

The Deltang receivers are used in N-gauge.

 

And I used one of them to convert an N-Gauge large prairie to Battery Powered Radio Control

 

...R

[Chris hndrsn]

I am surprised that MRC's Loco Genie hasn't been mentioned in this thread. It also operates in the 2.4Ghz band, but I am not sure whether it is a Bluetooth device, I will know when MRC answer my email in the next few days.

 

 

Cheers,

Chris

[Ron Ron Ron]

I am surprised that MRC's Loco Genie hasn't been mentioned in this thread.

 

 

There's also a wifi based system WifiTrax.

 

The MRC Loco Genie throttle looks totally naff, by the way.

Watch this guy struggle trying to control locos with it....

 

[Chris hndrsn]

There's also a wifi based system WifiTrax.

 

The MRC Loco Genie throttle looks totally naff, by the way.

Thanks for the heads up about WifiTrax. I must agree about the Loco Genie remote, which is why in my email yesterday to them, I asked whether they will be producing a mobile phone app. But in MRC's defence they do aim at kids and the lower end of the market.

 

I suspect that the Loco Genie is a Bluetooth device, reading through the WifiTrax literature it isn't and requires a router, like the Z-21 system (without the cost!).

 

 

Cheers,

Chris

[Robin2]

If you are prepared to do some soldering and some Arduino programming you could build a wireless "receiver" for a 4mm scale (or bigger) track-powered loco for about £10 (maybe less) and a "transmitter" for something similar. The transmitter could control several locos.

 

It would not be a great deal more complex to make it battery powered.

 

...R

[Ron Ron Ron]

.... I asked whether they will be producing a mobile phone app.....

 

 

MRC recently introduced a direct WiFi module, that allows you to use mobile phone throttle apps (iOS & Android).

 

There's a Gaugemaster rebadged version too ( DCC05 Prodigy WiFi ).

 

http://www.modelrectifier.com/product-p/0001530.htm

 

http://www.gaugemaster.com/news/NEW-DCC05-Prodigy-WiFi

 

 

 

.

[autocoach]

MRC recently introduced a direct WiFi module, that allows you to use mobile phone throttle apps (iOS & Android).

 

There's a Gaugemaster rebadged version too ( DCC05 Prodigy WiFi ).

 

http://www.modelrectifier.com/product-p/0001530.htm

 

http://www.gaugemaster.com/news/NEW-DCC05-Prodigy-WiFi

 

 

 

.

Both of these still rely on commands transmitted to the locomotive decoder through the rails. The weak spot that Blue Rail was attempting to overcome. The MRC solution appears to be Blue Tooth between the throttle and a command station which connects to your DCC command station which connects to the rails and transmits commands to the locomotive.  Too many failure points.

[Ron Ron Ron]

....I asked whether they will be producing a mobile phone app.....

 

MRC recently introduced a direct WiFi module.......

 

Both of these still rely on commands transmitted to the locomotive decoder through the rails. The weak spot that Blue Rail was attempting to overcome....

Apologies for misunderstanding the point about a mobile phone app.

I now read it to mean an app for use with the Loco Genie system.

 

 

....The MRC solution appears to be Blue Tooth between the throttle and a command station which connects to your DCC command station which connects to the rails and transmits commands to the locomotive.  Too many failure points.

Which one are you referring to Ken; Loco Genie or the Prodigy WiFi unit?

 

Loco Genie doesn't connect to any Command Station.

There is no Command Station.

The throttle communicates directly with the Loco Genie decoder via Bluetooth.

These decoders can also be controlled by regular DCC.

Track power can be DC, AC or DCC.

 

The Prodigy WiFi is a DCC accessory which simply plugs into the Prodigy Command Station.

It allows direct WiFi communication between a Smartphone and the Command Station (via the attached Prodigy WiFi module).

No home WiFi network connection is necessary.

It doesn't use Bluetooth and isn't a Loco Genie device.

 

 

 

.

Edited March 26, 2018 by Ron Ron Ron

[Chris hndrsn]

MRC recently introduced a direct WiFi module, that allows you to use mobile phone throttle apps (iOS & Android).

 

There's a Gaugemaster rebadged version too ( DCC05 Prodigy WiFi ).

 

http://www.modelrectifier.com/product-p/0001530.htm

 

http://www.gaugemaster.com/news/NEW-DCC05-Prodigy-WiFi

 

 

 

.

I note that there is no mention of MRC's Loco Genie on the WiFi module page. I don't think that is unusual, as the heart of the Loco Genie module on the locomotive is still a DCC chip and when on a DCC layout, without the Loco Genie remote, it would be getting commands through the rail. The question is whether the Loco Genie modules include a Bluetooth receiver, like the BlueRail/Bachmann EX-App modules, or that MRC Loco Genies are an infra-red device like older TV remotes.

 

The MRC/Gaugemaster Prodigy Wifi module would also seem to put a big dent in the Fleischmann/Roco Z21 market.

 

What ever the case, the MRC Loco Genie seems good for getting kids into remotely controlling their trains and in the transition to DCC and computer control. Both the BlueRail and Loco Genie methods also are great for those who want to be able to quickly do some shunting independent of their DC power pack or DCC system/throttles/computer control.

 

 

Cheers,

Chris

Edited March 27, 2018 by Chris hndrsn

[WIMorrison]

...

 

The MRC/Gaugemaster Prodigy Wifi module would also seem to put a big dent in the Fleischmann/Roco Z21 market.

..,

All this module provides is the functionality that has been available for Lenz systems using the Lenz LAN interface and use of TouchCab, Withrottle or Engine Driver.

 

It will provide a cheaper entry into a glass throttle for existing owners of MRC systems but as it isn’t similar to the Z21 app or functionality of the Z21 command station it will have no impact upon that market.

Edited March 27, 2018 by WIMorrison

[Walker]

A very nice discussion, raised by my question.

But in  my opinion quite useless for what I asked.

I don´t know Arduino.

 

And all the discussion did not show a solution. Is there any working wireless system, and if yes, usable for N scale (1/160 ) ?

Of course I could steer a loco via RC. But only one. And nothing else, such as sounds, lights etc as shown with the BlueRail system.

 

Roland

[Robin2]

I don´t know Arduino.

You could learn. I did. I have no illusions that I am super-intelligent. 

 

...R

Edited April 2, 2018 by Robin2

[Ron Ron Ron]

A very nice discussion, raised by my question.

But in  my opinion quite useless for what I asked.

I don´t know Arduino.

 

And all the discussion did not show a solution. Is there any working wireless system, and if yes, usable for N scale (1/160 ) ?

Of course I could steer a loco via RC. But only one. And nothing else, such as sounds, lights etc as shown with the BlueRail system.

 

Roland

 

 

Roland, your question (post 552) was answered by the very next post (post 553 - by me) and the following one from Nile (post 554).

 

The original BlueRail board (decoder) is now out of production.

A new smaller board for H0 is currently being developed.

Bluerail Trains hope to produce a smaller N scale board in due course, but this may be some way off in the future.

 

Alternative wireless systems, WifiTrax and Ring Engineering's Rail Pro, have also stated their intention to eventually produce N scale decoders, but there is nothing as yet.

 

 

.

[Walker]

Thank you very much Ron. It might have been that someone else knows something that hadn´t been mentioned yet. I did not want to criticize anything - if it appeared so.

 

 

@Robin2

 

Would yo learn Chinese just to understand the instruction on a bag of Chinese instant noodles ?

 

 

Regards,

 

Roland

Edited April 2, 2018 by Walker

[Robin2]

Would yo learn Chinese just to understand the instruction on a bag of Chinese instant noodles ?

I would if I wanted noodles and I could only have them if I learned Chinese.

 

However learning to program an Arduino is not nearly as difficult as learning Chinese.

 

...R

[Phill Dyson (onslaught832)]

Anyone besides me using Monocacy Bluetooth chips? .........just fitted one to a 7mm Class 121 DMU .

[Nile_Griffith]

Anyone besides me using Monocacy Bluetooth chips? .........just fitted one to a 7mm Class 121 DMU .

 

 

 

Interesting? I wasn't aware of this product but looking at the their website (and without prizing a Bluerail board out of one of my loco's) their bluetooth board doesn't look massively dissimilar to BlueRail's BlueHorse board. I know that BlueRail themselves had said that they were going to make their control platform open source and available for any manufacturer or software developer to take advantage of. Could this be an example of that?

 

Dimensionally the board seems to be longer but narrower, something that might make it more useful to OO gauge modellers. Their pricing is (in US dollars at least) nearly half the price of the original BlueRail board! So that definitely gets a thumbs up.

 

As mentioned at the start of my reply. It would be interesting to know if the Monocacy board is using BlueRails source code and is compatible with the BlueRail App and also of course, the reverse. 

[Phill Dyson (onslaught832)]

present ?

Interesting? I wasn't aware of this product but looking at the their website (and without prizing a Bluerail board out of one of my loco's) their bluetooth board doesn't look massively dissimilar to BlueRail's BlueHorse board. I know that BlueRail themselves had said that they were going to make their control platform open source and available for any manufacturer or software developer to take advantage of. Could this be an example of that?

 

Dimensionally the board seems to be longer but narrower, something that might make it more useful to OO gauge modellers. Their pricing is (in US dollars at least) nearly half the price of the original BlueRail board! So that definitely gets a thumbs up.

 

As mentioned at the start of my reply. It would be interesting to know if the Monocacy board is using BlueRails source code and is compatible with the BlueRail App and also of course, the reverse.

 

Hi Nile

They retail at £32 from the UK distributer, which is incredible value!

I don't know if the Blurail App works with them, but I will have a look at downloading it & giving it a go

Are Bluerail chips available at present?

[davetheroad]

present ?

Hi Nile

They retail at £32 from the UK distributer, which is incredible value!

I don't know if the Blurail App works with them, but I will have a look at downloading it & giving it a go

Are Bluerail chips available at present?

 

Apparently BlueRail sold all the first batch of Blue Horse boards, I think they made 800? The new second generation board release date is indicated to be summer 2018.

 

I have 2 Blue horse boards and they work very well, customisation front end is very impressive. They are now sitting in a drawer because I can't get on with the touch screen interface. I am used to tactile feedback on the throttle ( a knob) but have been told you should be able to pair a small hand throttle with your smart device. The Android App never caught up in functionality with the Apple one either.