davepallant Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 A next step on my layout was to plan the signalling. Since I have a modern image mainline layout I decided to go for 4 aspect colour light signals. There are a few off the shelf N gauge 4 aspect signals available and also a couple of kits but I thought I would try 3D printing which had the possibility of being relatively cheap... if it worked. I can always fall back on ready to run. The software I have used is Sketchup. I drew up a 4 aspect head, a 4 aspect single signal on a pole and some feathers and a shunting signal. The first ones from Shapeways have now arrived. The seperate heads were rejected and need to be reprinted. The single head on a pole looks quite good. I have blown it over with grey primer and it looks a little dotty and I've got a couple of hairs in the paint but not too bad. Another coat of the right colours should help. The signal is pretty accurate with the red at just over 3m from the 'ground' and the top of the signal at 4.5m. The whole is just about 30mm from board surface to the top of the signal head. I have started wiring one of these. It uses 0805 surface mount leds and roadrunner wire which is like fine transformer wire but has a coating which melts at soldering iron temperature. The pole is big enough for 5 wires (4 plus return) down a 0.8mm hole. I had expected to have to wire the leds outside of the head and then slide the lot in hoping that the common was the right length between. I made the first that way and three of the leds worked but not the red. I repeated but first gluing the leds into the head. With a fine tipped iron I could work around the safety bar and solder each wire in individually. I also have to say that I'm using a microscope since my eyesight is not up to focusing at this size! Again the red led does not work. It looks like the red Multicomp 0805 leds I got from CPC have the cathode symbol round the wrong way.... The leds I have used have a front face. I'll see how that looks and if necessary try a drop of liquid glazing in each led hole. Photos with leds on next week. Dave 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted February 20, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2015 Hi Dave, Great concept, and looking forward to seeing how you progress. Thanks for posting I'm also really impressed with the progress you're making on "Coketown" having followed the link to your gallery. Cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multiple identity account Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I never knew an N scale signal could even be printed For that matter I though even HO scale wouldn't print well. Apart from that very very very slight grainy feel it looks good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 20, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2015 That really looks the business - you've caught the subject extremely well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigP Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) -- Edited January 30, 2021 by bigP Deleted Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multiple identity account Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Is it FUD or WSF? I'm thinking FUD? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davepallant Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 It was printed in Frosted Ultra Detail. It was the only material that would get down to 0.3mm thick panels. All of the items based around the signals I have sent off for printing so far have been rejected for some part which has crept under the 0.3mm structural limit. Now I have seen the effect I am happier beefing up certain parts of the models to be thicker but I dont think I'll be able to go to the slightly cheaper Frosted Detail. As it was the feathers order arrived with a lot of bits in a bag. It must have kept them busy finding all the bits that belonged to me. I think I went a little too thin on the links to the sprues. I still dont have my seperate order of 4 aspect heads for gantry use. Again slight thickness problem on the links to the sprues. I'll make another order once I have something else to get to share the postage. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted February 23, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 23, 2015 They look excellent - be great to see the feathers too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davepallant Posted February 25, 2015 Author Share Posted February 25, 2015 I've got the first wired with leds and a coat of paint and is as good as can be expected. I have cleaned this one for rough edges before painting and just brushed on acrylic over the spray undercoat. I think the photos above are quite harsh on the surface - these are better. The acrylic has filled in a lot of the surface and the matt colours help disguise it as well. I havent bothered putting any liquid glass in for lenses. I'd never get it in and it would probably be invisible. I havent bothered putting the small panel on the back of the lamp box since the wiring fills the available space quite nicely. Obligatory scale pic with a one penny (UK). Straight on view All of the leds one at a time. I'm using the diode setting on a multimeter to power the leds one at a time but they are looking about right in terms brightness. The range of leds was chosen to get the green frequency as low as possible. The ones I used from CPC were: Dave 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davepallant Posted February 25, 2015 Author Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) Hmmm. Just been looking at a few source photos now and it looks like the box on the back of the lamps is often grey? Also my Railmatch Rail Grey metalwork is looking a little bright for modern infrastructure grey so any hints on an alternative acrylic colour off the shelf for signals, gantries and catenary posts would be useful! My reference for signal lamp colours came from a Marl document concerning modern led signals. The Marl colours and the led colours I used are: Green Marl 500nm Leds 520nm True Green slightly less blue than the real thing Yellow Marl 593nm Leds 589nm Looks slightly less red than the real thing Red Marl 633nm Leds 625nm Dave Edited February 25, 2015 by davepallant Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted February 25, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 25, 2015 Hi Dave, For the catenary gantries and much of the infrastructure on Horseley Fields I just used Halford's primer grey, which is an acrylic paint (I think) and in my experience is pretty much 100% reliable to give a smooth, matt finish. For some cable boxes etc I sometimes dry brush rail grey onto the primer to give the things a little texture. cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted February 25, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 25, 2015 Great job Dave! Will you be making them available to buy anywhere? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davepallant Posted February 25, 2015 Author Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) Great job Dave! Will you be making them available to buy anywhere? Hi. I've just been wiring a feather and not having a lot of fun what with the FUD melting and surprisingly, the white leds melting! I dont think it would be worthwhile me making runs of these things since I dont own a lot of the equipment I'm using. I would need to get a good soldering iron and a microscope to do enough to make it worthwhile and I dont have a lot of spare time. I can make the bare items available to buy on Shapeways but they will have to come with a warning that you need bionic eyesight and a fine tip iron! Edited February 25, 2015 by davepallant 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davepallant Posted February 25, 2015 Author Share Posted February 25, 2015 A feather. I had problems with one of the leds in the row, thought I had caught it and superglued the lot and then found the tip led is not working. I think the pad has split from the led. Since the FUD is quite translucent then not painting before fitting the white leds is the way to go here. This was painted after fitting the leds and was relatively easy to do. I have done the 'bad thing' and connected all of the leds in parallel. There was no other way really and we have had several signal feathers wired this way on Preston Club's Bee Lane for several years with no problems. Extreme closeup. Yuk. Here is the feather held against a signal. I don't have any individual signals with feathers on my layout - all of the feathers are on gantry heads - so I haven't glued it on. I'm not sure there's room for even one more wire down the post anyway! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davepallant Posted February 25, 2015 Author Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) Hi Dave, For the catenary gantries and much of the infrastructure on Horseley Fields I just used Halford's primer grey, which is an acrylic paint (I think) and in my experience is pretty much 100% reliable to give a smooth, matt finish. For some cable boxes etc I sometimes dry brush rail grey onto the primer to give the things a little texture. cheers Ben A. Thanks Ben, Just had a look at the gallery and Horseley Fields is a very nice layout! Nice atmosphere with lots of weeds and junk! I notice there are signals next to the Pretendolino on your gallery photo. Which manufacturer's signal is that if you don't mind me asking? Thanks Dave edited for bad apostrophocation... Edited February 25, 2015 by davepallant Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multiple identity account Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 I'm very impressed.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted February 26, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 26, 2015 They do indeed look great Dave, I was thinking Shapeways for the prints, so that hamfisted oafs like me can have a go at melting a few and destroying some LEDs, rather than a fully fledged product. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted February 26, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 26, 2015 Hi Dave, I am pretty sure the ones on HF are CR signals, but we need some more for the new section and will also be looking at Ansolute Aspects. I saw them at Warley and was very impressed, though we haven't made a final decision yet. Re your feather, I did wonder whether a "strip" LED is available that could sit in behind the lenses as they are all the same colour. It'd certainly simplify wiring! Cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted February 26, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 26, 2015 I've often wondered if a fibre optic would be any good for a feather. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davepallant Posted March 1, 2015 Author Share Posted March 1, 2015 Bringing a fibre from under the board might be an idea but you would probably need 1mm diameter or so for the fibre. That did give me another idea though which is a single white led at the bottom of the feather and a triangular light pipe which narrows toward the end. That might reflect light into each of the 5 holes from the single led. That is similar to Ben's suggestion of a longer led. Having said that I also have a double feather printed which would require four wires - feather 1, feather 2, common centre led and return... I'm in two minds whether I need that one. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davepallant Posted June 14, 2015 Author Share Posted June 14, 2015 My first signal gantry head in Frosted Ultra Detail seemed to leak light between the leds and I realised that I had given the signals above a coat of Halfords primer BEFORE wiring in the leds. By misting the FUD with primer it stops the light travelling between the leds. This should work with fitting leds into any slightly transparent material where you want to keep the light from seperate leds apart. Now I have built another pair of 4 aspect heads ensuring that I prime the body before fitting the leds and it seems to keep the light from travelling through the body. The leds are a little bright in the photos because I only had a coin cell lying around. I think I will tone the light output right down on the layout to help reduce bleed and to prevent them being distracting. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davepallant Posted June 14, 2015 Author Share Posted June 14, 2015 Next I needed modern signal ganties. Since I have Catenary I need some gantries for individual and double signals as well since the signals have to reach over the catenary in places. I looked at building my own and have purchased some girders and brass plate and brass netting but thought initially I wanted something less experimental to start with. I found the Traintronics N gauge kit and bought with the idea that I could cut them into individual single ended gantries as suggested on their website. In the end the gantry is not long enough for me to get two of the lengths I wanted from it so I have gone for a full gantry over three tracks for two heads. The gantry is advertised as being for four tracks but I really dont think you would be able to do it with Peco track spacing. Inside of the two uprights there is barely 100mm and I allow 26mm or so for a track width so that I dont have to butcher Peco points for crossovers. For comparison N Brass OHLE portals cope with Peco track widths in the 3 way (87mm inside uprights) and 4 way types fine. Since I have three tracks on the mainline I am crossing the Traintronics gantry is nicely relaxed if a little wide. It took about two hours of building. I didnt need to use bars for bending since the brass is nicely perforated. The instructions are a little vague in places. There is no mention of how or when to put the railing along the top of the gantry but I ended up tacking them on at the end. I didnt take any pictures of the gantry going together but here it is complete. This one has signals for the adjacent and third road in the three lines so needed a very long arm hence the use of the full gantry. I have several other places where I need part gantries so I'll be building at least two more of these kits. Traintronics suggest using the gantry as two parts but beware that there is only one ladder to the ground so you need to get some extra bits for a second ladder. Now I've looked at the gantry more I do worry about the engineer climbing the ladder and finding the protection missing half way up. Not sure what I was thinking about using the two parts of the railing with a gap like that! Dave No link to N Brass or Traintronics just a happy customer. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted June 14, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 14, 2015 Hi Dave, Wow - that looks really good. Will you be fitting it with your own 3D printed signal heads? cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davepallant Posted June 15, 2015 Author Share Posted June 15, 2015 Thanks Ben, That will be the next job - fitting the heads in the reply above the gantry onto the gantry. The wire has a solderable insulation so I am a little uncertain as to its strength pulling it around the sharp edges of the brass of the gantry., I'll need to thread the two lots of wiring up into the gantry along and down the leg. I'll probably leave it until fitting it onto the layout. I'm also wary about fitting the heads and then blowing up an led. I think I'll get the DCC decoder drive for the leds working and checked on the leds before fitting as well. I'm going to use a nano Arduino to drive them from DCC. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted June 23, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 23, 2015 Great job Dave, interesting to know that it's not really wide enough for 4-tracks. Your signal heads do look great too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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