East Kent Bus Colours

[Slohcin]

I have an EFE Leyland PD1 in East Kent colours, but they do not look correct. The 'cream' is more white than I remember, so I am planning to repaint.

My question is which Humbrol colour should be used to replace the White? The Crimson looks about right, so I am planning to leave as is.

Thanks

[Joseph_Pestell]

As I recall, it was not cream but off-white, so model may well be correct. I'm sure there must be lots of photos on internet to confirm.

 

Possible of course that colour changed during the company's history. My recollections are from the 60s.

 

Edit: As I thought, there are lots of photos on Google. Not terribly conclusive in that:

 

1) a lot of the shots are of preserved vehicles which may not be "right";

2) there was clearly some inconsistency with coaches seemingly lighter than buses.

 

But on balance, I still think that the models are probably right (most of the commercially available models are also included).

Edited February 25, 2015 by Joseph_Pestell

[SRman]

I thought the red on the PD1 and PD2 models was a little bright as East Kent tended to use a deeper, more crimson colour. I agree that the 'cream' is a little too white, though.

At one stage the EFE East Kent Leylands were available for very low prices due to printing/finishing errors, so made good starting points for modelling 'hack' jobs and repaints.

[crompton 33]

Look  under cherry paints for the correct colour. http://www.phoenix-paints.co.uk/cherry-paints/cherry-paints.html

[Slohcin]

Well, SRman, it looks as though I may have one of the 'rogue' PD1's (I did buy it second hand). Just need to establish the correct colour for a repaint.

Thanks Crompton33 for the link, although I would prefer to use Humbrol.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Slohcin

[PhilJ W]

IIRC the colour was officially ivory which covers a large variety of shades from off white to pale yellow. As I recall the exact shade used to vary due to aging (the earlier varnishes used to 'yellow') and weathering.

[crompton 33]

I have looked on the model bus forum . They state there is not a match in the Humbrol paint range.

[runs as required]

I agree that EKRCC cream looked yellower than say NWRCC's more ivory.

EKRCC Park Royal Dennis

As kids we used to get the NWRCC Stockport/London 'chara' fairly regularly to/from Victoria and you could compare the EKRCC Harrington vehicles alongside.

dh

[John Tomlinson]

As implied by the web address, Cherry is now part of the Precision Phoenix range, and so of quite acceptable quality, if there are concerns here.

 

The Cherry range includes several of the classic bus liveries such as Ribble, Midland Red and Tilling group, and would be the choice of many serious bus modellers - I merely dabble and wouldn't include myself in that small but focused band!

 

John.

[Joseph_Pestell]

But the "custard" of early BR was also quite a pale colour when first applied. It was only with ageing that the pinkish carmine became rather crimson and the upper part "cream" turned into custard.

 

And what do we mean by custard anyway? Real custard is quite a pale colour but most of us are used to Bird's, Ambrosia, etc which are far more yellow.

[runs as required]

But the "custard" of early BR was also quite a pale colour when first applied. It was only with ageing that the pinkish carmine became rather crimson and the upper part "cream" turned into custard.

And what do we mean by custard anyway? Real custard is quite a pale colour but most of us are used to Bird's, Ambrosia, etc which are far more yellow.

 

I'd say it was the other way round - that the problem was u/v attack of paint hue. So the more exposure to u/v, the 'paler' the paints of the time appeared. The original Carmine would fade to a pink and the Cream to a rather milky white.

Equally the original BR blue A1s Kings. MNs and Coronations I never saw in their original rich hue, just dirty faded pale bluey grey.

 

About bus liveries

There is an article on L&Y railmotors in March 'Backtrack' magazine which says one reason the stop-at-each-road-crossing hourly rail services were taken off was the maturing motor bus competiition. In SW Lancashire it was particularly humiliating for the LMS because the rival Ribble bus livery was LMS Crimson Lake because of the part ownership of BET by the LMS!

dh

[crompton 33]

There are some variations on the east kent models. EFE 15802 Leyland Titan PD1 Was released with upper deck from EFE 16003 Leyland PD2. EFE 16003 Leyland Titan PD2 was released with upper deck from EFE 15802 Leyland Titan PD1.  All the model fault's are listed on a model bus forum. 

[mikeharvey22]

In my view one of the best renditions of East Kent's traditional colours is on the EFE Guy Arab Utility (ref. 26312) and the Leyland TD1s (27307/27316). The recent Renown masquerading as a Regent V also matches these (36902), though I understand few of these remain with retailers. When building kits of East Kent buses I have aimed for consistency by using Rover Targa Red over a red undercoat, and Ford Ivory also over red undercoat. I accept that the ivory is a bit too light as painted and benefits from a gentle weathering.

 

I have used The Cherry/Precision colours occasionally on brushed painted N gauge models where their slight paleness suits the model size.

 

I have tried to convince EFE to rerun the PD1 in a more appropriate red, and I still have hopes for that happening.

[runs as required]

...The British Electric Traction Co. (BET) was not part owned by any railway company.

SOME companies within the BET group had a proportion of their shares owned by the 'local' member of the 'big four' - such companies included Ribble Motor Services Ltd. whereas several BET companies had no railway shareholding at all.

Where this was the case the railway shareholding was always no greater than 49% with the rest being held by the BET (and sometimes a small holding by another institution.......

.....As to the colour of Ribble vehicles - the colour was never at any time that of the LMS.......

Hope the above is of interest - please feel free to ask if I can be of further help.

Regards

At the risk of wandering OT as usual, I found all of your reply on bus liveries interesting - I've extracted the above to set against the actual Backtrack article wording below.

And the victorious rival even had the effrontery to paint vehicles in LMS crimson lake, an outcome of passing rail shareholding in Ribble (40%)

How do you find the context of this (compared to my remembered 'embellished' version); adequate? Or in need of correction?

dh

[Joseph_Pestell]

In my view one of the best renditions of East Kent's traditional colours is on the EFE Guy Arab Utility (ref. 26312) and the Leyland TD1s (27307/27316). The recent Renown masquerading as a Regent V also matches these (36902), though I understand few of these remain with retailers. When building kits of East Kent buses I have aimed for consistency by using Rover Targa Red over a red undercoat, and Ford Ivory also over red undercoat. I accept that the ivory is a bit too light as painted and benefits from a gentle weathering.

 

I have used The Cherry/Precision colours occasionally on brushed painted N gauge models where their slight paleness suits the model size.

 

I have tried to convince EFE to rerun the PD1 in a more appropriate red, and I still have hopes for that happening.

 

Mike, You make a very valid point about perception of colour being altered by the size/scale of the model. And of course most models will be looked at in artificial light.

[whart57]

The recent Renown masquerading as a Regent V also matches these (36902), though I understand few of these remain with retailers.

 

That explains why that model never looked right to me

[coachmann]

I was asked to assist with 'Oldham Red' by one of the model bus companies. I sent off part of a pre-war bus panel, but the company decided to use one of their existing maroons. It was a mile out.  Not unexpected!

[Nearholmer]

EKRCCo. Vehicles were sometimes hired by M&D and used on their journeys on route 122, Gravesend to Brighton, shared with Southdown. My mental picture of them flogging uphill near our house when I was a boy is that they were deep red and cream (distinctly not white) with gold lettering with shading. To me the cream seemed similar to M&D cream.

[whart57]

I rode East Kent buses on a daily basis to get to school and back. Our route from Herne Bay to Canterbury was 99% Regent V with half cabs operating. Occasionally one of the full front "Puffins" appeared and even more occasionally a Guy Arab III. Herne Bay garage had these for the town services so I suppose one got pressed into service if there was a breakdown. Livery was maroon and cream, definitely cream and not white or milk colour. Ceilings inside were an ivory colour, at least downstairs. Upstairs of course they were heavily discoloured as smoking was permitted