Manning Wardle L class drawings?

[hartleymartin]

Does anyone know where I may obtain some drawings of a Manning Wardle L class with the later style cab like this? I'd like to have a go at scratchbuilding one in O scale.

 

 

[sir douglas]

PM about where you could get plans

[Dava]

Alan Wright's North Sunderland Railway (Oakwood press) has a good 4mm scale drawing & many other gems, you'd like the book,1988 edit best but check Abe.com there is one in NSW!

 

Jim Read built one of these. Wrist injury prevent s me scanning drawing.

 

A Wright I discovered last night also 'invented' the shunting puzzle layout & built Inglenook Sidings based on Kilham Sidings in Northumberland so we have much to thank him for.

 

Dava

[hartleymartin]

I know that this is an L class picture. A rather handsome locomotive too!

 

[AMJ]

There are a few photos and line drawings in the Fred W Harman books listing the locos.

 

I'd be careful as there are more cab's than enough. 

 

Looking on this page (from one of my sites)

http://leedsengine.info/leeds/imodels.asp

 

Might be an idea to build the Slaters K

https://slatersplastikard.com/linePage.php?code=7L016

These are a couple of slight differences.

The cylinders are a different size, not noticable with an inside cylindered loco!

K wheelbase is 5'5" + 5'4" L is 5'9" + 5'6"

Wheel diameter on some K's is 1.5" more than L's.

 

If you can hire a total station used to scan buildings etc see a previous employers site as these are used by the manufacturers to get 3D scans of locos to create modern compter drawings.  https://www.zenithsurvey.co.uk/

 

Nice to see Matthew Murray on Balm Road branch at the top of this page used from my Leeds Engine site.  I have probably taken over 100 photos of this loco.

[hartleymartin]

Well, I have tracked down some M class drawings which state that the wheelbase was 5'10" + 5'8" - I'm now wondering if I can adapt an Ixion Hudswell Clarke Chassis for the job, as this is 5'9" + 5'9". Like all industrial locomotives, there were a number of variations. The M class came with 3'0" or 3'6" wheels. The former does not require splashers in the footplate, which was  one of my main criteria. 

I've also found that S&D Models supply a number of castings for various components such as the Chimney, safety-valve bonnet, etc for quite a reasonable price which would make the build much simpler. I specified the later style cab because it is fairly simple in design and so that I could put figurines in the doorways and not bother modelling the back-head.

Conveniently, the external dimension of the boiler barrel of 3'8" is 25.7mm - close enough to 1" plastic pipe that it doesn't matter.

Edited March 5, 2015 by hartleymartin

[sir douglas]

ive got a copy of this to scale on a pdf file

[hartleymartin]

I'm looking at the L class photos I can find and as far as I can tell, the cab completely encloses the firebox and the 3'0" diameter wheels do not require splashers, but it is essentially the same as the M class. Once built up, I doubt that anyone would be able to tell the difference anyway. I have a spare 40:1 ratio gearset and I'm waiting on an order of frame spacers from Eileens Emporium and will order all the relevant detailing parts from S&D models. I might not get around to properly building it until the end of the year, but it will make a nice summer project. My plan is to build a simple chassis and footplate from brass, and the body will be largely plastic-card. I've learned from experience that plastic will tend to warp over time unless it is well-braced internally. The challenge will be to ensure that an adequate motor can be fitted, but with the enclosed cab, I might be able to manage an 1833 with flywheel, disguise it by painting it black and obscure them with crew figurines in the doorways and/or cab side-sheets.

Anyway, it is time to get busy super-imposing the new cab onto the M class drawings!

[hartleymartin]

Well, I've guesstimated the dimensions of the later style cab from photos and pencilled them in onto the M class drawing. The other major differences I've been able to find is the shape of the frames. The later style frames are also straight-cut and much simpler in design compared to earlier ones. As far as I can tell, the box saddle-tank is virtually the same size.

The major correction to be made to the M class drawings is just the bufferbeams. The buffers are at 6'5" spacing for some unknown reason, when they should be 5'8" to 5'9". The buffers also need to be raised slightly as they are at about 3'3" high when they should be 3'5" to 3'6".

 

I've looked into my supply of odds and ends and found that I have a suitable set of locomotive brake shoes and arms as well as some castings for springs. In another Manning Wardle photo I have found, it was quite common for there to be toolboxes, large oil cans and various items on the footplate, and I can simplify a few things by omitting the springs that would otherwise be hidden by these items anyway.

Some of the very useful items from S&D Models:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[hartleymartin]

If my model isn't accurate for any particular class of Manning Wardle, I can always say that it was involved in an accident and sent back to Manning Wardle for repairs and a few improvements before re-entering service.

I'm not 100% certain that this in an L class, but I'm generally aiming to build a model to represent this Manning Wardle:

Edited March 6, 2015 by hartleymartin

[avonside1563]

Plenty of industrial locos were modified during their working lives, some quite drastically! So no issues if it isn't quite accurate.

[hartleymartin]

I've drawn the later style cab over the published drawing. I cannot guarantee that it is inch-for-inch perfect, as the dimensions are scaled from photos and not from drawings, but it seems pretty darn close enough if you ask me! I have not drawn the arc of the roof or the new location of the cab windows on the front elevation - these are easily enough guesstimated by the modeller. The original drawing had the buffers out at 6'5" for some reason. I've moved them to 5'9". The front elevation only shows the approximate outline of the cab. I will be building this with 3'0" wheels so I don't have to model any splashers!

 

 

The line at the bottom is a rough outline of the frames on the MW L class. A few adjustments need to be made to the drawing still, as the locomotive I am portraying had steel buffer plates instead of timber bufferbeams. Oh, and of course, the centre "chopper couplings" are not a typical standard gauge feature!

Edited March 7, 2015 by hartleymartin

[hartleymartin]

I've just laid some components over a the drawing. It looks like I can fit a Mashima 1824 on a markits 54:1 gearbox driving the rear axle mounted vertically inside the cab and have most of it hidden by the backhead. Unfortunately, the flywheel will show through the top, but painted black and with plenty of other things obscuring the line-of-sight it should be okay.

Edited March 7, 2015 by hartleymartin

[hartleymartin]

Taking another look at the motor/gearbox situation, I think a Mashima 1620 would be more appropriate. Coupled with a 50:1 gearset this would give a top speed of about 30 scale miles per hour - about right for a little contractor's locomotive!

[AMJ]

The green loco is a Manning Wardle special build engine called Winston Churchill as used at Cadbury's in Bourneville, a photo of it since it has been lined and name put back on can be found on my Leeds Engine site.

[MarcD]

S&D models do a M/W I class loco not built any of their kits so I can't comment on what they are like but I was thinking of getting one for my LSWR layout

 

Marc

[hartleymartin]

I have a spare Ixion Hudswell Clarke mechanism which I intended to use on this build, but after moving house 12 months ago, I cannot find the bloomin' thing!

 

I planned to get some components from S&D models and build the rest in a combination of plastic and brass, but until I find that mechanism, I won't be doing anything.

[Down_Under]

How did you go with the build?

 

So, what are the differences between a L and M Clas MW?

[hartleymartin]

Never got around to the build. I put all my modelling aside to focus on finishing my Diploma.

 

At the moment I am working on a conversion of an LBSCR A1 to an NSWGR N67. When that is closer to completion, I'll get started on the Manning Wardle L class. Depending on how things pan out, I'll be using some components from S&D models and then scratch-building the rest. I'm considering an attempt at a brass body for this project, though I normally use plastic.

[Down_Under]

Thanks for the update - good luck with the Diploma - look forward to hearing more about the build when it happens.

 

Differences between the L & M Classes - where they internal i.e. cylinder dimensions, but externally the same, or did they vary externally as well? I.e. Saddle tank height, width, boiler diameter or length etc etc?

 

Thanks in adavance

[hartleymartin]

Honestly, I have no idea. I found that the leading dimensions of the Hudswell Clarke chassis were close-enough for the Manning Wardle, so I resolved to built a MW body on top. I've looked at lots of photographs and found that there were lots of designs. In reality, it was a family of designs rather than a single type - many of which were rebuilt or modified over the years. On various MWs I found that the cab and the saddle tank might butt up against each other, or there may be a gap - several different ones! 

The number of variations in the design mean that I can fudge certain things as long as it looks enough like a Manning Wardle.

[Poor Old Bruce]

My listing tells me there is a drawing of an L Class in Oakwood's book on the RAF Cranwell Railway (which may mean I have a copy somewhere safe) if that's of any help.

[Edwardian]

Well, I have tracked down some M class drawings which state that the wheelbase was 5'10" + 5'8" - I'm now wondering if I can adapt an Ixion Hudswell Clarke Chassis for the job, as this is 5'9" + 5'9". Like all industrial locomotives, there were a number of variations. The M class came with 3'0" or 3'6" wheels. The former does not require splashers in the footplate, which was  one of my main criteria. 

 

I've also found that S&D Models supply a number of castings for various components such as the Chimney, safety-valve bonnet, etc for quite a reasonable price which would make the build much simpler. I specified the later style cab because it is fairly simple in design and so that I could put figurines in the doorways and not bother modelling the back-head.

 

Conveniently, the external dimension of the boiler barrel of 3'8" is 25.7mm - close enough to 1" plastic pipe that it doesn't matter.

 

 

Can I please ask what edition of RM this is in, so that I can try to track down a copy?

[EddieB]

The green loco is a Manning Wardle special build engine called Winston Churchill as used at Cadbury's in Bourneville, a photo of it since it has been lined and name put back on can be found on my Leeds Engine site.

Now displayed outside the Black Country Museum, Dudley; previously on the Pensnett Trading Estate, Shut End (where it has been replaced by a Ruston diesel).

[AMJ]

Can I please ask what edition of RM this is in, so that I can try to track down a copy?

If you want a specific magazine many of these are readily available from the vintage carriage trust at Ingrow West on the Worth Valley.

 

Beware of the wheels as MW are different from those used over Jack Lane at HC!