Northern Electrification Task Force Report

[jjb1970]

We live in the world we live in. That means rising populations, increasing demand for raw resources, an ever more stringent approach to reducing environmental impact and the necessity to compete globally with economies with much lower cost bases than our own. Some of that may not be particularly likeable and some of it is down to much more profound social dilemas about birth rates and mortality but basically if people want the UK to retain some degree of competitiveness and economic viability then modernisation is not an option. We are already suffering as other countries press on with major infrastructure upgrades and modernisation. If people don't see that as important then I can appreciate personal choices but people also have the right to consider maintaining the countries economic viability to take precedence over personal preferences for non-electriffied railways.

[Reorte]

We live in the world we create.

 

Well rising population is also one of my pet hates. If all those considerations result in us getting a less pleasant world to live in then we've lost the plot anyway. Fair enough if you think that they don't (although obviously I'd disagree) but "need to keep up with the Joneses and keep running just to stay still" is something that should scare the hell out of people, not just be shrugged at and accepted. Anyway, at best that would amount to "damn, we're in this position where this is the least bad choice", not something to be celebrated and cheered - that's the part I just cannot understand at all.

 

The future used to excite me. These days it depresses and disgusts me.

[jjb1970]

keeping up with the jones' is what will maintain the economic competitiveness needed to fund healthcare, pensions, education etc etc. Whether we like it or not money doesn't appear out of the ether and it costs a lot of money to maintain the sort of society which we value. The world does not owe us a living and if we don't pay our way then we'll end up in the same sort of mess as Greece with society under strain and savage austerity. If people think the UK is going through an era of austerity it is a walk in the park compared to the sort of austerity measures being imposed in other countries. Population is interesting as it is a combination of birth rate and mortality, we need a healthy birthrate to sustain our economy and unless we mandate how many children people are allowed to have like China and withdraw healthcare at an arbitrary age (neither option of which I'd consider acceptable) I'm not sure what to do about it.

[Fenman]

... I find the travelling experience worse, with the posts flicking past the windows if it's moving at speed, to the point of finding turning off an electrified line rather a relief ...

 

You would really have hated the steam age, then, with all those telegraph poles flicking past the windows!

 

Paul

[Reorte]

You would really have hated the steam age, then, with all those telegraph poles flicking past the windows!

Only out of one side though, and yes, the technological developments that lead to them being removed are ones that I regard as beneficial. Continuous welded rail is another (despite liking a bit of nostalgia for jointed track), as are coaches that don't get smashed to matchwood and catch fire when they derail and have better riding qualities. I don't oversimplify to "everything old good, everything new bad." I view technological development as being something that gives us more choice, not as something that should be automatically rejected or embraced.

[Talltim]

Few things not mentioned so far (unless I missed them)

• BR's original plan was to move from steam to electric. That's why so many new steam locos were built, some were expected to to be still running into the 80s on the last outposts of unwired track. However post (or possibly even pre) WCML  the concept of mass electrification pretty much ground to a halt and for various political reasons BR ended up buying lots of diesels instead. So, had things gone as planned, electrification wouldn't have been the way of the future, it would be old hat.
• Electric trains can be far more powerful for their size and weight than diesel. This can impact load lugging ability, acceleration and top speed. In the UK, load lugging does not tend to be that much of an issue, with a few exceptions (thinking low speed freight up long inclines blocking paths) but acceleration and top speed do make a big difference on our congested passenger orientated network.
• Electric trains tend to last longer than diesel.