Piko SmartControl

[Martingchapman]

Nick,

Thanks for the comprehensive update.

One good thing is that the SmarBox did work initially, so not a quality control problem with PIKO.

 

However that does not help you.

There must be something with your setup that the the eLink can tolerate but the SmarBox can not.

Given the way that the SmartBox failed it does suggest some sort of current overload, but what caused it I cannot guess.

 

I only use the SmartBox to control the locos on my OO layout, I have 12, all are sound equipped and I can have up to 5 running at a time with no problems.

I don't have any other connections to the DCC bus, all my point control is analogue using a separate 16v ac supply, capacitor discharge unit and analogue switches.

So there is nothing in my setup that could even remotely affect the SmartBox.

 

Thanks for taking the time to update this thread, and good luck if you decide to try another DCC Controller.

Martin.

[njee20]

The short circuit protection is certainly very ‘keen’ on the Smart Control. I had mine trip yesterday for no apparent reason, and wouldn’t restart. I ended up leaving it, on powering up today it was still like it, I plugged my old ZTC in as that emits a loud buzz in the region of the short (presumably due to greater output?) for a couple of seconds, which makes fault finding easier. It didn’t find one, I plugged the Smart Control back in and all was well. Bit weird. It seems to only need the tiniest provocation to trip, perhaps you have some peculiar momentary short somewhere which doesn’t affect the eLink? Seems unlikely...

 

I like the controller I must say. Having some issues with the conversion of my points to DCC which is hampering further exploration of what it’ll do!

 

FWIW I bought from Germany for £391 delivered, I sold the sound fitted loco for £130, so I’m already below the cost of the controller itself before the coaches and track have gone.

[Nigelcliffe]

From the JMRI side of things, the developer of EngineDriver (throttle App for Android), says he now has a beta version of EngineDriver which supports the ESU/Piko handset with motorised speed-wheel. 

 

So, an option for owners of the device to use it with other command stations - so long as there is a computer connection and a computer running JMRI (Raspberry PI for £30-ish does the computer bit).

[Martingchapman]

Just noticed PIKO have released updated App for the SmartControl (the handheld unit), dated 20/12/2017 now at V1.1.3.

 

Visit the PIKO website for details and to download here - http://www.piko-shop.de/index.php?vw_type=5&vw_name=detail&vw_id=79

[Martingchapman]

Just noticed PIKO have released updated App for the SmartControl (the handheld unit), dated 17/05/18 now at V1.1.4.

 

Visit the PIKO website for details and to download here - http://www.piko-shop.de/index.php?vw_type=5&vw_name=detail&vw_id=79

[GoingUnderground]

Have Piko also released a new version of the SmartBox firmware? ESU released firmware 4.2.3 for their CabControl ICU on Thursday last, 17th May along with firmware 4.2.3 versions for all models of the ECoS. Ths was the same day as they released their version 1.1.4 of the Mobile Control 2 app for ECoS users of the Mobile Control 2 handset and, of course, for CabControl owners.

[Martingchapman]

Have Piko also released a new version of the SmartBox firmware? ESU released firmware 4.2.3 for their CabControl ICU on Thursday last, 17th May along with firmware 4.2.3 versions for all models of the ECoS. Ths was the same day as they released their version 1.1.4 of the Mobile Control 2 app for ECoS users of the Mobile Control 2 handset and, of course, for CabControl owners.

 

Yes, well spotted - SmartBox firmware dated 17/05/18 now 4.2.3 also available from http://www.piko-shop.de/index.php?vw_type=5&vw_name=detail&vw_id=79

[GoingUnderground]

Apologies for resurrecting  this old topic, but it seemed to be the most appropriate place to let Piko SmartControl 55040 owners know that last week ( Tuesday 21 July ) ESU released an updated version of their CabControl ICU firmware, version 4.2.8, ( the CabControl ICU being the ESU-branded equivalent of the SmartControl SmartBox ) . There is known to have been a version 4.2.5 for CabControl released a while ago, but that was only found pre-installed on new ICUs so the date it went out isn't known as ESU didn't make it available to existing CabControl users.

 

I hope that Piko do make 4.2.8 available for SmartControl owners, if only because it includes support for the current ECoSBoost 50012, and, I'd guess, LokSound 5 and LokPilot 5 decoders as these three products weren't around when 4.2.3 was released in 2018. I don't know if 4.2.8 will also enable the integrated Loconet-T port as ESU only mentioned support for the ECoSBoost in their announcement.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Thanks for the heads up Keith.

My SmartBox is running on 4.2.3.

No mention of 4.2.8 on the Piko support page yet.

 

Would it be OK to download and update from the ESU site?

 

 

 

 

.

[aureol40012]

Hi all, I wonder if anyone can help me work out how to use the smartcontrol handset with a DR5000 base unit?  Would it be a case of using a different app, eg EngineDriver?
 

Ideally I’d like to do this without having to use a computer in the set up as my layout is outside in the garden! However if the best way of using the two devices together is to involve a computer then I’m sure I can work out a way around it. 
 

Thanks in advance.

Edited November 7, 2020 by aureol40012

[Ron Ron Ron]

37 minutes ago, aureol40012 said:

Hi all, I wonder if anyone can help me work out how to use the smartcontrol handset with a DR5000 base unit?  Would it be a case of using a different app, eg EngineDriver?
 

Ideally I’d like to do this without having to use a computer in the set up as my layout is outside in the garden! However if the best way of using the two devices together is to involve a computer then I’m sure I can work out a way around it. 
 

Thanks in advance.

 

a). If you are referring to the original (ESU derived) Piko SmartControl handset, then yes, it can work directly with the DR5000 command station without the need for a computer.

I believe you'll need an interface, such as the Digitrax LNWI, attached to the DR5000 and the Engine Driver throttle app loaded onto the SmartControl.

This works for both the Piko SmartControl and identical ESU MobileControl 2 handsets.

 

b). If you meant the Piko SmartControl Light, which is an entirely different type of handset, then this is a LocNet device and I understand it should work with the DR5000.

Others may be better placed to help with this one.

 

 

 

 

 

.

Edited November 7, 2020 by Ron Ron Ron

[aureol40012]

Yep, I mean the full fat version!

 

it’s a shame that I can’t use the original Piko app as I like it a lot, it’s up there with the Z21 app for me.  What’s your thoughts about the entire Piko smartcontrol system, i.e. handset and base station, as a replacement for the DR5000 and the Z21 app on a smart device?
 

I love the DR5000 but may actually be persuaded to sell it and replace it with the full smart control system just to be able to use the Piko app with the handset.

[aureol40012]

Ps, I take it the Z21 app won’t work fully with the Piko handset, ie making use of the throttle dial.

[Solo]

I bought a Piko Smartcontrol system several years back when it was first introduced.  The interface is lovely, by far the best I tried with its combination of a high quality (and very smooth) control knob and touchscreen access for dcc functions, perfect for actually watching your trains as opposed to having your eyes glued to a speed display/functions.  The smart-box is a very compact command station to boot.

 

But mine is temperamental.  Wasn't so bad the first couple of years but lately the handset in particular is prone to either freezing up or being very slow to respond to button touches....not so handy when you're trying to switch between locos or when an engine is nearing the end of the track!  Often a total re-boot is required and I have kept it pretty well updated with software upgrades etc. (though note - and this is a problem for me - you can't download a software update via a MacBook, had to borrow my Dad's Windows computer).

The shame is I really think the handset is far superior to any other control product on the market so have considered replacing it but they don't seem to be available any more or possibly only in conjunction with a full-scale ECoS command system?

 

But if you do get one and it works it really is a great way to control trains, especially if using DCC sound.

[GoingUnderground]

34 minutes ago, Solo said:

I bought a Piko Smartcontrol system several years back when it was first introduced.  The interface is lovely, by far the best I tried with its combination of a high quality (and very smooth) control knob and touchscreen access for dcc functions, perfect for actually watching your trains as opposed to having your eyes glued to a speed display/functions.  The smart-box is a very compact command station to boot.

 

But mine is temperamental.  Wasn't so bad the first couple of years but lately the handset in particular is prone to either freezing up or being very slow to respond to button touches....not so handy when you're trying to switch between locos or when an engine is nearing the end of the track!  Often a total re-boot is required and I have kept it pretty well updated with software upgrades etc. (though note - and this is a problem for me - you can't download a software update via a MacBook, had to borrow my Dad's Windows computer).

The shame is I really think the handset is far superior to any other control product on the market so have considered replacing it but they don't seem to be available any more or possibly only in conjunction with a full-scale ECoS command system?

 

But if you do get one and it works it really is a great way to control trains, especially if using DCC sound.

You need to remember that the MC2/SmartControl  app isn't a generic app. It is tied to the ECoS/CabControl  because it accesses and interacts with the database in the ECoS/CabControl or, in your case, the Piko SmartBox.

 

The Mobile Control 2 handset, as used in the original Piko SmartControl, works with the ESU ECoS and ESU CabControl. Apart from the logo, there is no difference between the Piko Smart and ESU Cab Control systems, But CabControl is only sold in N. America and Australia. The MC2 is sold on its own, that's how I bought mine. Look at the ESU website http://www.esu.eu/en/products/digital-control/mobile-control-ii/ for more information on the MC2 and also here http://www.esu.eu/en/products/digital-control/cabcontrol/ for information about CabControl.

 

ESU have recently issued an update to the MC2 app to 1.1.7 following the release of an updated MC2 handset which now runs Android 6 and are freely available for sale, subject to stock availability in these troubled times. Your Piko SmartControl, like my MC2, uses Android 4. They have also issued an update this year to the operating system/firmware in the CabControl ICU, which is the equivalent of the Piko SmartBox, to 4.2.8.

 

If you install a Windows emulator like Parallels or Wine on your Mac then you could use your Mac to update the handset if Piko ever get round to making 1.1.7 available to SmartControl owners, as I believe it is currently only available to ESU branded MC2 handsets. Piko seems to have walked away from support for the original SmartControl handset and SmartBox base unit. Ron might know more about that as a SmartControl owner..

[pooldoc58]

On 29/12/2020 at 18:55, Solo said:

I bought a Piko Smartcontrol system several years back when it was first introduced.  The interface is lovely, by far the best I tried with its combination of a high quality (and very smooth) control knob and touchscreen access for dcc functions, perfect for actually watching your trains as opposed to having your eyes glued to a speed display/functions.  The smart-box is a very compact command station to boot.

 

But mine is temperamental.  Wasn't so bad the first couple of years but lately the handset in particular is prone to either freezing up or being very slow to respond to button touches....not so handy when you're trying to switch between locos or when an engine is nearing the end of the track!  Often a total re-boot is required and I have kept it pretty well updated with software upgrades etc. (though note - and this is a problem for me - you can't download a software update via a MacBook, had to borrow my Dad's Windows computer).

The shame is I really think the handset is far superior to any other control product on the market so have considered replacing it but they don't seem to be available any more or possibly only in conjunction with a full-scale ECoS command system?

 

But if you do get one and it works it really is a great way to control trains, especially if using DCC sound.

Had my Piko smart control system for around 8 months and have had similar issues waiting for a Roca Z21 to arrive today hope I have better luck with this

[GoingUnderground]

5 hours ago, pooldoc58 said:

Had my Piko smart control system for around 8 months and have had similar issues waiting for a Roca Z21 to arrive today hope I have better luck with this

I think that you said elsewhere that you have the SmartControl Light. This is made by Uhlenbrock and is based on the Uhlenbrock Daisy 2 (Uhlenbrock 66300/66350). 

 

 

Most of the comments in this topic relate to the original Piko SmartControl, which after the launch of the Piko SmartControl Light was renamed the SmartControl Elemente to distinguish between the two very different versions of SamrtControl. The original SmartControl was made by ESU for Piko and uses a Piko branded version of the ESU Mobile Control 2. Whilst Piko have discontinued the original SmartControl (Elemente), ESU now sell it as an ESU branded product the CabControl. 

 

 

You might find this topic more relevant if you do indeed have the SmartControl Light. https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/130804-low-cost-system-piko-smartcontrol-light/

Edited March 3, 2021 by GoingUnderground

[pooldoc58]

1 hour ago, GoingUnderground said:

I think that you said elsewhere that you have the SmartControl Light. This is made by Uhlenbrock and is based on the Uhlenbrock Daisy 2 (Uhlenbrock 66300/66350). 

 

 

Most of the comments in this topic relate to the original Piko SmartControl, which after the launch of the Piko SmartControl Light was renamed the SmartControl Elemente to distinguish between the two very different versions of SamrtControl. The original SmartControl was made by ESU for Piko and uses a Piko branded version of the ESU Mobile Control 2. Whilst Piko have discontinued the original SmartControl (Elemente), ESU now sell it as an ESU branded product the CabControl. 

 

 

You might find this topic more relevant if you do indeed have the SmartControl Light. https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/130804-low-cost-system-piko-smartcontrol-light/

many thanks I actually have both got 2 starter sets one I got in Berlin that was on sale just had to get it 

[Rigaman]

Does anyone have any advice on what to do if your SmartControl "loses" power?  Having run successfully for a long time, my SmartControl now only outputs around 11 volts which is insufficient for running my OO gauge layout.  I've tried contacting Piko through their Technical Support via email but I'm now nearly two weeks into waiting for an answer.  Having seen the comment about Piko discontinuing SmartControl (and there now being no starter sets using it on their website), am I flogging a dead horse and so should Iook for a new system?  When it worked it was great and I really like the handset which still works making me loathe to throw it away.

[Ron Ron Ron]

On 26/05/2021 at 14:51, Rigaman said:

Does anyone have any advice on what to do if your SmartControl "loses" power?  Having run successfully for a long time, my SmartControl now only outputs around 11 volts which is insufficient for running my OO gauge layout.  ......

 

Sounds like the power supply or the wiring connections somewhere between the wall plug and SmartBox.

 

Have you got the basic 2.25A 16V power supply, or the optional 5A variable voltage supply?

Is the power jack making correct contact in the socket, or have there been any kinks in the thin power cables, that might have caused a partial breakage?

 

If the power supply itself is suspect, then a replacement 5A power supply is available from Piko (55046), but you may have to import it from Germany.

https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/Accessories/Electric+Accessories/Piko-55046/gb/modell_235378.html

 

Alternatively, the ESU 7A variable voltage power supply will work (50119) -  £71.50 from Rails of Sheffield for example.

https://railsofsheffield.com/products/38222/esu-loksound-50119-any-scale-transformer-15-21vdc-7a-150va-input-120-240vac

 

 

Amazon sell a 5A alternative for £15.90

https://www.amazon.co.uk/DSLRKIT-75Watt-Supply-Adapter-100-240V/dp/B01LPKWLNM

 

 

 

.

.

 

Edited May 27, 2021 by Ron Ron Ron

[Rigaman]

Thanks for the reply.  My power supply is the basic 2.25A 16V one.  I've checked the output voltage and its delivering 16v DC so that seems OK.  The output voltage from the Smart Control remains at around 11v AC. 

 

I'll investigate the cables connecting the box to the main track and the programming track, although they haven't been moved for months and certainly not prior to the problem appearing.  I really appreciate the help and the references for new power supplies.  I'll repost when I've investigated the cables some more.

[Rigaman]

I've now tried connecting different wires to the track output but I'm still getting the same result - around 11v.  I now wonder whether the unit is faulty which probably means it's kaput.  I recognise that I didn't always follow the PIko shutdown process as per the manual.  So I wonder whether that has done the damage.

[GoingUnderground]

On 26/05/2021 at 14:51, Rigaman said:

Does anyone have any advice on what to do if your SmartControl "loses" power?  Having run successfully for a long time, my SmartControl now only outputs around 11 volts which is insufficient for running my OO gauge layout.  I've tried contacting Piko through their Technical Support via email but I'm now nearly two weeks into waiting for an answer.  Having seen the comment about Piko discontinuing SmartControl (and there now being no starter sets using it on their website), am I flogging a dead horse and so should Iook for a new system?  When it worked it was great and I really like the handset which still works making me loathe to throw it away.

I hate to say it, buy you probably are flogging a dead horse.

 

Piko didn't release their version of the most recent update to the SmartBox firmware when ESU released 4.2.8 last year for CabControl and ECoS. Previously Piko's 4.2.3 update was released at the same time as ESU's own 4.2.3 update for their Cabcontrol ICU and for the ECoS.

 

The two accessories for the SmartControl that used the ECoSLink bus have been discontinued, namely the 4 port loconet adapter and the booster interface. The original SmartControl set and additional handsets for it are no longer part of their product range. and as you say there are no longer any starter sets with the original Smartcontrol, its place being taken by the Uhlenbrock supplied Smartcontrol Light.

 

I don't think there are any stronger signals than those that Piko are no longer supporting the original SmartControl.

 

You could try contacting ESU in Germany, but they'll probably refer you back to Piko.

 

But what are you using to measure the track voltage? I ask as most multimeters are not designed for reading high frequency alternating polarity source voltages and if yu're using one on its AC setting then the readings you're getting very probably won't be accurate. What made you decide to measure the voltage in the first place?

Edited May 28, 2021 by GoingUnderground

[Rigaman]

Thanks very much for the reply.  I have tried contacting ESU at the end of last week (and asked if they would reply even if it was "we won't help") but have yet to receive any answer.  I'll post if I do.

 

I am using a multimeter to measure the track voltage and the reason for that was the slow running of my engines.  Even without using sound they are really slow which wasn't the case until a couple of months ago.  I'm also experimenting with ABC and at this voltage there is no effect whatsoever regardless of whether I have ABC on or off!  When I tried previously there certainly was an effect - even if I was still coming to grips with which CVs needed adjusting in which directions to achieve the stopping distance I wanted.

 

If no solutions come forward, it'll have to be a new system but I appreciate people's time replying to my problem.

[GoingUnderground]

You need to remember that unless your multimeter is specifically designed to measure DCC voltages, the chances are that it is not giving you a correct readout of the voltage. This is because DCC is very high frequency, up to 10,000 cycles per second and is a square wave meaning the voltage rise and fall is virtually instantaneous, whereas mains AC is only 50 cycles per second and is a sinusoidal wave form where the voltage rises and falls much more slowly.

 

So unless you have a voltage reading using your multimeter from before the slow running began you don't really know whether the track voltage has fallen or not.

 

As far as I know, and I'm working on the basis that SmartControl will share much of the design philosophy of ESU's ECoS, the SmartControl doesn't include any internal voltage regulation, and relies entirely on the input voltage from the PSU for setting the track voltage. So whilst it is possible that there is a fault in the SmartBox, that may not necessarily be where your problem lies. The SmartControl Handset is unlikely to be the cause of the problem as it is the human/machine interface in the system and plays no part in determining the track voltage.

 

Buying a new system will be expensive, so it is worth doing some tests to see if the fault lies outside of the SmartBox before replacing your SmartControl system.

 

If you have a different PSU that you could use it might be worth trying that. Do make sure if you do try a substitute PSU that you get the polarity correct as I don't know if the SmartBox includes any input rectification to protect it against the output from the PSU being connected incorrectly. 

 

As you've been experimenting with ABC braking you will have been making changes to the layout wiring, so it is worth looking for wiring faults around the layout as well. Also look at any changes unconnected to the ABC changes that you may have made around the time that you first noted the locos running slowly.

 

Have you tried removing all locos and carriages with interior lights from the layout and then just putting one loco back on the track and seeing if that still runs slowly? If it runs at its normal speed then that could indicate that you've reached the limit of the SmartControl's capacity to power the layout. If that is the case then you will need to split the layout into two power districts and buy a booster, feeding one district from the SmartBox and the other from the booster. In theory the ESU ECoSBoost should be suitable, but the SmartBox firmware will need to recognise it for it to work and I can't remember whether firmware 4.2.3 was released before or after the latest ECoSBoost. If 4.2.3 predates the latest ECoSBoost (50012) then the ECoSBoost won't work with the SmartBox. But that shouldn't stop you using a stand alone booster from another maker, or the earlier 4 amp ECoSBoost, if you can find one as it was discontinued a few years ago when the 50012 model was released.

 

If the loco still runs slowly when there is nothing else on the layout it would be worth, if you can, setting up a simple circle of track on a tabletop away from the layout, and connecting the SmartControl Box main track out to that and see if the loco still runs slowly. If it runs at its normal pre-problem speed then than that would point to a wiring problem with the layout or a bad connection somewhere in your wiring somewhere between the SmartBox and the layout rails.

 

You also say that you've been adjusting CVs to get ABC braking to work. So it might be worth doing a decoder reset on the loco that you've just tried on your plain circle of track just in case you've inadvertently changed the CVs that limit the top speed of the loco(s).

 

Good luck, I hope that you can find a simple and easy and cheap to fix external fault or issue to save you the cost of a new system.

Edited June 4, 2021 by GoingUnderground
correct typos