ICI Hoppers from Hatton's in Partnership with Oxford Rail

[pharrc20]

Clearly a SINGLE 25 just walked away with the train loaded to 15-18 wagons.... superior traction you see.

Ah but it would have been banked all the way from Tunstead Sidings to Peak Forest. Single locos even 47s would have been banked to Peak usually by the pilot loco based at Peak whatever was on duty that day often a 37.

Pairs of 37s did not need a banker and this is how they operated until the end of 1997 when the PGAs took over.

Cheers Paul

[DerekEm8]

Yeah but probably got as far as Dove Holes tunnel and boiled over due to lack of coolant. Leaky Swiss Sulzer tat!!

Tounge firmly in cheek if IPad hasn't added the smilies.

Ah but they did sometimes get further than Dove Holes Tunnel

 

25042 ManPicc 120683  During the Sunday diversions via Manchester

Edited November 3, 2018 by DerekEm8

[gridwatcher]

Ah but it would have been banked all the way from Tunstead Sidings to Peak Forest. Single locos even 47s would have been banked to Peak usually by the pilot loco based at Peak whatever was on duty that day often a 37.

Pairs of 37s did not need a banker and this is how they operated until the end of 1997 when the PGAs took over.

Cheers Paul

 

I knew that Paul but I still find the very idea of sending out a single 25 on a hefty train of bogie stone hoppers amazing to this day and I saw the thing every single day as a kid!

[adb968008]

I knew that Paul but I still find the very idea of sending out a single 25 on a hefty train of bogie stone hoppers amazing to this day and I saw the thing every single day as a kid!

25’s are interesting beasts

An ex-works rat sounds identical to a scrap rat, they always sound knackered.

Looking at them, ive never seen a rat that didnt look like it was about to fall apart.

And two rats climbing out of Manchester Victoria sounds like a cacophony.

Ive never seen a rat that couldnt pull its weight, I had a railtour with 12 on once, between Bolton and Manchester, but it did die when it got to Victoria.

Fantastic machines, beaten with the ugly stick & twice fried but stil a really great ride.

 

https://youtu.be/bGzFIbo4ozo - not my video but i was on this train, they did Lickey incline.

Indeed the only problem with the models, is weathering isnt enough, they need dents, dings, holes and lots of patching and rust to look authentic.

Edited November 5, 2018 by adb968008

[Corbs]

After a couple of e-mails I have received some feedback from Hattons on the latest 'weathered' hoppers. How they decided that they were weathered well enough to send them out I do not know. My opinion is that the very poor satin brown overpainting that Hattons call weathering is appalling and not 'fit for purpose'. However it seems that they will not recall the wagons for a proper weathering job and there seems to be a 'take it or leave it' stalemate. They have offered to take the latest 9 wagons back for a refund or exchange my pre TOPS 50's to 73 wagons for some pristine post TOPS wagons. That seems to be a non offer as I do not model the TOPS period. It would appear to be more work to remove the TOPS code and renumber etc as there are no transfers available. Yes I could print some transfers and yes I could weather them but why should I spend my time when this problem is due in my opinion to a lack of quality control on Hattons part. I did suggest that I would get the wagons professionally re-weathered  and send Hattons the bill. That suggestion was met with a firm response of 'No'. I ordered a full rake of 18 wagons, the other 9 being pristine and lightly weathered. I have weathered up the pristine wagons and I had been very pleased with the overall project until these latest wagons appeared. To send 9 wagons back and leave me with a rake of 9 doesn't seem to be a fair option to me. Im still considering my next steps but perhaps if everyone who is not pleased with their wagons complained directly we may get a change of heart on the part of Hattons. To be honest though I'm not holding my breath. A very poor situation and I think Hattons should be ashamed of their actions.     

 

Steady on. Hatton's have offered to give you your money back for the product you are not happy with, or exchange it for the next closest thing they have available. Why should they be ashamed of that? It sounds like they have been quite reasonable. To say to them that they should be paying for the wagons to be re-weathered for you, I think is unreasonable. You wouldn't tell the Ford dealership they will be paying for your new Mondeo to be repainted because the blue doesn't match the one in the brochure, how is this any different? 

I feel your pain about the wagons not being what you wanted, but I think the options Hatton's have given you have been good ones for any RTR manufacturer/retailer in their position.

[wmwem05]

Steady on. Hatton's have offered to give you your money back for the product you are not happy with, or exchange it for the next closest thing they have available. Why should they be ashamed of that? It sounds like they have been quite reasonable. To say to them that they should be paying for the wagons to be re-weathered for you, I think is unreasonable. You wouldn't tell the Ford dealership they will be paying for your new Mondeo to be repainted because the blue doesn't match the one in the brochure, how is this any different? 

I feel your pain about the wagons not being what you wanted, but I think the options Hatton's have given you have been good ones for any RTR manufacturer/retailer in their position.

 

Hi Corbs, I like the hat by the way! It's an interesting analogy that you have used. I'm not so sure that you would be quite as complacent if you had bought a car that you really wanted in the colour that you really wanted to find that the dealer had allowed the manufacturer to overspray it in a slightly shiny, dirty brown colour obliterating any details, badges etc. My complaint is not about the wagons, I think they are excellent but when it comes to the weathering there has been an obvious communications breakdown between Hattons and Oxford Rail as Hattons didn't receive any production masters of the 'heavily weathered' version. My complaint is that the issue has been passed straight on to the customer. As I said previously these wagons have been long awaited for my own layout and for a club layout based on Peak Forest with fully interlocked signalling etc. I have started to 'improve the wagons' as in my earlier post but just in case you missed it I'll attach another photo of one of my pristine hoppers which I had previously weathered to match in with the Mercig masters plus a reweathered 'lightly weathered' hopper and a reweathered 'heavily weathered' hopper. Yes, perhaps I'm old school, and perhaps I shouldn't have expected much in the way of weathering for £1, but the Mercig masters promised so much. I'm now going to renumber all of my heavily weathered hoppers (9) and then work through renumbering my other 9. Hope this helps to clear up the issue.  

[stovepipe]

My complaint is not about the wagons, I think they are excellent but when it comes to the weathering there has been an obvious communications breakdown between Hattons and Oxford Rail as Hattons didn't receive any production masters of the 'heavily weathered' version. My complaint is that the issue has been passed straight on to the customer.

 

Post 343 from Hattons shows the heavy weathered sample on 7 Feb 2018. On the 12 Feb 2018 the first of the Pristine wagons were received in the shop. In the excitement, did everyone forget to look at the weathered sample? Apart from the three comments that followed, no-one else commented as far as I can see. Perhaps that is why people are referring back to Post 297 where the weathering styles were shown.

[wmwem05]

I was given the information regarding the production samples by Hatton's themselves so I'm certainly standing by my original complaint. But as a keen modeller, rather than argue the point on this forum I'm going to get on with my own weathering to bring these models up to standard.

[AlfaZagato]

Late to the party, I am.    Are these confirmed, or likely to have, run behind the Garratts?   Not just for looks, but making lovely annoying super-trains on my club's layout would be much easier with bogie stock that will round corners without pulling off.

 

With these having been made, will the LMS side-dump hoppers be in the future?

[Barry O]

Late to the party, I am.    Are these confirmed, or likely to have, run behind the Garratts?   Not just for looks, but making lovely annoying super-trains on my club's layout would be much easier with bogie stock that will round corners without pulling off.

 

With these having been made, will the LMS side-dump hoppers be in the future?

not seen any photos of a garratt ( they didn't work up the peak)  on these.. the ICI hoppers were generally 8F hauled

 

as for any further wagons like these..well ask Hattons direct.

Baz

[pharrc20]

Late to the party, I am. Are these confirmed, or likely to have, run behind the Garratts? Not just for looks, but making lovely annoying super-trains on my club's layout would be much easier with bogie stock that will round corners without pulling off.

 

With these having been made, will the LMS side-dump hoppers be in the future?

There exists on paper a proposal between the LMS and I.C.I. to consider the use of Garratts for the Tunstead to Northwich services and I have a copy at home but the plan was not progressed due to the introduction of the 8Fs. I will look for it when I'm next home.

Cheers Paul

[adb968008]

Post 343 from Hattons shows the heavy weathered sample on 7 Feb 2018. On the 12 Feb 2018 the first of the Pristine wagons were received in the shop. In the excitement, did everyone forget to look at the weathered sample? Apart from the three comments that followed, no-one else commented as far as I can see. Perhaps that is why people are referring back to Post 297 where the weathering styles were shown.

Problem with your post is, in post 343 it shows an image of ICI006DW, but none of the others.

And, In fact,in post 441,copied below it states ICI006DW is no longer being produced.

You cannot compare a template against a production that hasnt been made.

This will cover the remaining weathered versions with the exception of ICI006CW and ICI006DW which are no longer being produced. I apologise for any inconvenience caused by this but unfortunately, it was unavoidable in this case.

 

If you have an order that contains one of the above codes then our Helpdesk team will be getting in touch shortly to check if you would like us to amend to one of the other available variations or simply remove it from your order.

 

Cheers,

Dave

Edited November 10, 2018 by adb968008

[stovepipe]

And the problem with yours is you haven't read all of #343. Especially the bit where it says

 

"This will be the same for all of the heavily weathered versions."

[gridwatcher]

Are we still wittering on about the weathering? Look at the price of these wagons and compare them to anything else in larger bogie freight wagon produced recently and being too churlish is rather short sighted, the additional cost of the weathering is also minute compared to some 'weathered' RTR models too. Hattons will swap them for clean ones. 

[wmwem05]

Just a quick correction. Hatton's won't swap for new clean ones as they only have post TOPS wagons. As I say I've given up on the issue and am working to get my fleet into a coherently weathered rake. Apologies but felt I needed to correct this new bit of 'Fake News'!

[Fordbank]

Magnetic Dismountable Limestone Loads for the PHVs.

 

 

 

 

A description of the modelling of these removable loads appears on the RMWeb thread Peak Forest Revived, page 10. 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/105210-reflections-on-peak-forest/page-10

 

 

[Holmesfeldian]

[gridwatcher]

Magnetic Dismountable Limestone Loads for the PHVs.

 

IMG_5747.JPG

 

IMG_5742.JPG

 

IMG_5739.JPG

 

A description of the modelling of these removable loads appears on the RMWeb thread Peak Forest Revived, page 10. 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/105210-reflections-on-peak-forest/page-10

 

Perfect. Thanks for pictures. Excactly what I had in mind king of copying the old Wagon Essentials style loads. 

[rorz101uk]

Apologies if asked before, this going to be another run of these models?

[dogbox321]

Perhaps?  Who knows.  It depends on what agreements exist between Oxford & Hattons.  Maybe Hattons can produce another run, or like with the Hattons Heljan exclusives - Class 28 & Garratt, then after a while Heljan have offered them as standard releases (As a side note, they could also do with offering a chassis exchange for those with "original garretts" - why should modellers suffer by paying £199 for a model, thats prone to breaking down?  If its a manufacturing fault/defect, they have the chance to rectify it).

 

Other issue is of course price - will there be another run of PHV at £24/£25?

 

Regards,

 

C.

[Ian Stewart]

Late Running PHV ICI Hoppers.

 

When the PHVs came out in October 2018, I like others purchased a (short) rake for the later period, but was disappointed that the final two weathered late period ICI006CW/DW were "not produced".

 

I checked with Hattons and discussed it with them at Warley. "Not Produced" and no likelihood of being.

 

I was therefore surprised, not having seen any announcement or heard any whispers, to see on their website last week that the 2 "not produced" had been produced! and ordered 1of each.

 

They arrived today and blend well with the previous later period weathered,

 

I have looked closely at them both, peering through the weathering, and have identified anomalies with the wagon numbers on the boxes & the actual wagons.

 

ICI006CW   box  19078        wagon   19052?  

ICI006DW   box  19087        wagon   any number?

 

I like the weathered wagons, even though it almost obscures the numbers, or no numbers! which requires remedial action.

 

No doubt the debate about their weathering will continue to rage. Perhaps we need a meaningful vote!

 

Ian.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Ian Stewart

[pharrc20]

Hi Ian, I discovered 6CW and 6DW to my suprise on the train home tonight.

 

I was also told at Warley by Hatton's that no more models would be made. Ever full stop. Even Oxford Rail were being tight lipped referring me back to Hatton's... so that looked like that then. I had wondered if following the lapse of a possible agreement this meant that the rights to produce the models reverted to OR as dogbox mentioned in his post above. Or OR would announce them in their range last week. Nope.

 

So I will place an order for some to bolster my fleet.

 

You are right Ian 6CW was originally announced as being ICIM 19052 but was later changed to 19078. 6DW was to be BLI 19110 but changed to 19087 however the original letter outlines was for small letters hopefully now for large ones.

 

Cheers Paul

[Ian Stewart]

Well, here we are again but in the upgraded RMweb world. Hello Paul, hope you are well.

In my last post I only suggested a meaningful vote on the weathering, and they took down this site and threatened to suspend The House of Commons! I didn't realise feelings are running that high.

I e/mailed the ever helpful Hattons and they advised me that the model wagon numbers have indeed been changed to more accurately refect the prototype, but the initially advertised numbers remain on the boxes.   ICI006CW wagon 19052   Box 19078        ICI006DW wagon 19110   box 19087.

But, just to keep us on our toes, the wagon number on 19110 isn't on the PHV panel, it's next to the data panel on the right hand sloping-in side. Yes there are letter outlines.

I managed to peer through the weathering and check all this through a magnifying glass with a light angled across the wagons!

I can of course see all this detail from a normal viewing distance.

I now don't want a meaningful vote on the weathering, or fly to Brussels in a Spitfire. I have lost the will to live. I'm going to listen to England playing cricket.

Ian.

[pharrc20]

Cheers Ian, I am good thanks. I wonder if it says BLI 19087 on the sloping panel? Quite a few received this stencilling though I would have to check my data sheet to be sure of which ones.

Cheers Paul 

[pharrc20]

If anyone missed out on getting 4A, 5A, 5B and 6A models and you have deep pockets full of money then this jot lot of 24 wagons is currently listed on that auction site https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F283363732180.

Interestingly, Hatton's also have some new models listed as well 6BW, 6CW, 6DW versions.

Cheers Paul