RMweb Gold Ryde-on-time Posted March 27, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 27, 2015 The Oxford 7 plank wagons were only announced late January and they are due for release in the next couple of months. The ICI wagons have guaranteed pre-order prices which suggests they will be available within a reasonable time Not sure what Heljan 'vapourware' has to do with this Oxford Rail / Hattons thread? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) Not sure what Heljan 'vapourware' has to do with this Oxford Rail / Hattons thread? I think it's a reflection of the fact that over the last 24 months or so we've seen the rate of new product announcements greatly exceed the rate of manufactured products arriving on shelves accompanied by a dramatically increasing lead time between announcement and delivery. Partly that is due to new entrants like Oxford Rail and DJModels appearing in the market. Partly it is due to a variety of production issues in China which has slowed product development and manufacturing. Heljan, granted that they are different company than Oxford Rail, is an illustration by example. In announcement / delivery for smaller suppliers over the last 24 months (or so): Oxford Rail (all) is 3 / 0 DJModels (00 steam only) is 9 / 1 Heljan (00 steam only) is 5 / 0 (Not counting the Garratt which was delivered about two years ago now, but we can make it 6/1.) At some point the rate of announcements and the rate of deliveries needs to equalize or the enthusiast community will start to feel like the manufacturers are just blowing smoke at us. I remain optimistic that it will all level out, but it is going to take a while yet. Edited March 27, 2015 by Ozexpatriate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 65179 Posted March 27, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) ....do you have or know of any images of them being worked singly in mixed trains RAR? Block trains detaching defective hoppers at e.g. Northwich Lostock or Oakleigh would normally collect repaired hoppers on a later journey....I've not seen any pictures of them in mixed consists yet. Dave There's a 1946 view of a J10 hauling a freight through Cheadle with 2 hoppers and a van at its head in Gregory Fox's Foxline book on Stockport Tiviot Dale. The remainder of the train is made up of opens/minerals. So a full rake is not necessary in earlier years at least. A 25 or 31 with a cripple must be justifiable later surely? Simon Edited March 27, 2015 by 65179 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
runs as required Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Am I missing something here? Is there an ICI hopper or two in that train? Can't see them myself. Yes you are right! Very sorry. Oh dear, I'm sure I remember stragglers getting returned via the 'western' . Funny thing is those hoppers were part of the wallpaper of growing up in the Goyt Valley, biking along the canal bank to and from school. Later my wife's stepfather was a Peak Forest signalman - where my kids and I enjoyed spending happy hours. dh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m.tomlinson Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 If you only have space or budget for one, Derby Research might be an excuse - see my photo in this thread of one at Sileby near Loughborough on test from Derby. Anyone know where they were overhauled? Hi, they were overhauled at ICI's Avenue engineering workshops, remember seeing lines of them outside in all forms of repainting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 There's a 1946 view of a J10 hauling a freight through Cheadle with 2 hoppers and a van at its head in Gregory Fox's Foxline book on Stockport Tiviot Dale. The remainder of the train is made up of opens/minerals. So a full rake is not necessary in earlier years at least. A 25 or 31 with a cripple must be justifiable later surely? Simon ....it is your train set Simon....you would just be recreating a very rare occurrance. Dave 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Hi, they were overhauled at ICI's Avenue engineering workshops, remember seeing lines of them outside in all forms of repainting.Avenue in Chesterfield? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
juggy0_1 Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 no, the ICI avenue works at winnington, northwich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Typical, just as my castings arrive! Ah well, look forward to the RTR Model. Wild Boar Fell Maybe just maybe you were the catalyst for this, in which case there are a lot of people who will be grateful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pharrc20 Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 A quick look in my book on these wagons shows two photos one from October 1950 with 48089 with three hoppers at the front of a mixed train at Chapel-en-le-Frith and another at Chinley North Junction around 1960 with 48677 with just two hoppers and a brake van both trains heading towards Peak Forest. The only other times I know of where short rakes of hoppers were seen were following the derailment at New Mills South Junction in 1980 where the class 25 train engine and lead hopper continued to Northwich and another time in the early 1990s where I saw myself a pair of 37s pass through Hazel Grove hauling a single wagon back to Tunstead alas no photos. Having helped Matthew at WBM with his kit for these wagons it is just typical this happens! As much as a surprise to me this announcement when a friend rang me up yesterday ironically whilst I was out at Peak Forest the hoppers old stamping ground! Cheers Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 I used to like going to Peak Forest in the late 80's and watching these trains, and others. Brush 4's, Double headed 20's, 37's and once or twice a Peak class 44/45. Like this you mean? Chinley North, 1984 (I think) 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roy h Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 these have always been on my want list. used to always see these passing through Cheadle heath or hazel grove always with a double header of two 37's. always could tell what was coming along as the sound would be with you well before the train. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted March 28, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 28, 2015 Perfect for N gauge too--how about it Hatton's? It's been mentioned on the n gauge forum that Hattons won't do N gauge commissions. Link to that thread here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium gc4946 Posted March 28, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 28, 2015 I knew one day a model of this type of wagon would eventually appear as RTR. However, reading this topic, I didn't know there were differences between the John Summers and the ICI versions. Having lived in the Wirral at one time, if they had announced they were producing the John Summers versions I would have put my name down for a few and invested in a 9F as well! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 (edited) Maybe just maybe you were the catalyst for this, in which case there are a lot of people who will be grateful. ....the fat lady is still in bed...let alone singing....the RTR example may turn out as vapourware, encounter considerable delay or else prove a poor comparison with the other....there are plenty of current precedents. If I was producing the kit then I would press ahead, finish it to the highest sensible spec and be selling it soonest possible. Dave Edited March 29, 2015 by Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinT Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 (edited) Actually it was Black 5 (4)5000. 5000 & others were stabled at 8E in the days leading up to the Rocket 150 celebrations at Rainhill, so the chance for BR to hold an Open Day was too good to miss! I don't think there was any announcement of what was to happen but 5000 mysteriously disappeared towards Lostock during the afternoon. Shortly afterwards a rumour spread that it was to be put on the front of a limestone train & sure enough it reappeared in front of a Class 25 & a train of ICI hoppers, which rumbled non-stop through Northwich station at a fair pace. Whether it stayed on the train all the way to the ICI exchange sidings or whether discretion prevailed & it came off earlier I know not. I guess the whole event was down to local initiative & I doubt if higher divisional management was disturbed at the weekend with a request for approval! I seem to remember that the sight of a steam loco at the head of a BR revenue-earning goods train after a gap of 12 years was really quite emotional - even though the circumstances were somewhat contrived. I have a transparency somewhere in the loft to prove the unlikely event but I'm afraid that the rushed circumstances & limited choice of viewpoints meant that I wasn't able to give the occasion proper justice. It was all a very long time ago. Martin Oops! Somehow I failed to clip & quote the message I replied to! It was #12 from Mr woodenhead. Sorry about that. Edited March 28, 2015 by martinT 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pharrc20 Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 And I am told that the local management at Northwich got a severe bollocking the day after 5000 had done the deed that afternoon! Cheers Paul 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium drjcontroller Posted March 29, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 29, 2015 Very pleased to see this announcement, always fancied a train of these hoppers. Would I be right in thinking that for the immediate pre-TOPS period (early 70's), it's the IC0003 variant I'd need in terms of livery, battleship grey bodies, frame & bogies? Thanks in advance Douglas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinT Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Thanks Paul, I rather feared that might have happened - I hope no lasting damage was done! Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pharrc20 Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Hi Martin, Yes I only know this from a conversation with a chap who told me some years ago. I never saw the actual event nor attended the open day (I was 5 then!) and only heard about it years later and managed to find a photo posted online of the deed but I haven't come across anymore as yet. Cheers Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted March 29, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 29, 2015 Not my pic but just found this on flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/38136824@N08/8342535123/ 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinT Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Thanks for the link Jim, A good pic & better than mine. I was on the platform so had a more or less a head-on view. It was sunnier than I remembered! Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 The release of these will no doubt produce a rash of new layouts rather like the Hornby Sentinel! Both of these are the type of items the magazine pundits have said will not sell and have set their stall on Locomotives only! I hope that this release will make manufacturers realise that Locomotives are only part of he story and something to pull around a layout is essential! Mark Saunders 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gridwatcher Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 You have just made my week/month/year etc etc....I will be IN for these in numbers. My signature train from boyhood. Deserve to sell very well indeed. What an inspired choice!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
runs as required Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 (edited) Its just occured to me that I never did ever ask anyone from the old Buxton ICI Mond Division what they actually did with all that Peak Forest limestone in Northwich? I've found this Wiki page with some notes under 'operations' (note that they sold off Brunner Mond to the Tata empire) But why did the manufacture of Soda Ash and Polythene need such vast quantities of carboniferous limestone? I don't recall large waste heaps around Winnington - did they stuff it away underground in Northwich's salt mines? Along the Tyne from us between Wylam and Prudhoe there are still huge long heaps of waste limestone from the former chemical works on the site of the present Andrex loo rolls paper mill. dh Edited March 29, 2015 by runs as required Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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