Revolution Trains confirms TEA tanker in N

[alibuchan]

Now there is a difficult question greenergy or the ews.

 

Will have to think on that one for a while.

 

Alistair

[Revolution Ben]

Hello all,

 

Courtesy of VTG and DB Schenker, earlier this week we travelled to Kingsbury Oil Terminal to photograph and record details of the TEA tankers we are planning to produce.

 

The terminal is in Warwickshire, east of Birmingham, and receives four loaded trains from the refineries at Lindsey (Total) and Humber (Phillips 66) most days.

 

We could not photograph in the terminal itself, as electrical equipment is not permitted anywhere near the loading procedure, however we were given access to the adjacent exchange sidings.

 

Kingsbury is next to the Birmingham-Derby line.  A rail served scrap yard is alongside while at the northern end the tracks curve away into the unloading sidings and a single line also leads around past the fuel depot to the Birch Coppice intermodal terminal about a mile and a half away.

 

 

The sidings are controlled by their own signal frame; and the crewman sets the points and then helps the driver shunt the trains into the sidings. 

 

 

When we arrived an earlier train was already being unloaded and the locomotive was waiting to retrieve it.

 

 

We were taken into the cabin for a site safety briefing and watched as the operation to marshall the empties begain.  First the locomotive moved past us to the sidings.

 

 

Then, as we watched it returned, shuttling back and forth twice to pick up each cut of wagons.  These were a mix of blue and grey VTG tanks, identifying them as thosed hired to Phillips 66 for use from the Humber refinery. 

 

Trains are all comprised of 32 tanks. Each of the terminal sidings can handle 11 wagons, so the train is split 11-11-10 for unloading.

 

 

Once the entire train was clear of the terminal, the locomotive uncoupled and ran round.

 

 

With the wagons stationery, and a good few minutes to wait for the locomotive to couple at the other end, photographer Tom Smith and I had plenty of time to record the details.

 

 

We moved to the overbridge to watch the train snake across the points as it reversed back onto the mainline, this also enabled us to get numerous shots of the upper walkways and hatches which were not easily visible from the trackside.

 

 

The locomotive has to move far enough "wrong way" to reach the signal and wait for permission to move off.

 

 

Then, after the points were set, it pulled away with the empties, destined for North Lincolnshire.

 

 

It was all very smooth and efficient, and it was not long before the next Class 60 arrived, with a rake of EWS liveried tanks from Lindsey, and the process began again...

 

 

Hope this is of interest to some!

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Ben A

[Glorious NSE]

Gotta love that backup move, it'd be a great feature for a layout...

[Dave Searle]

Hi Ben & Mike,

 

Great news,  I think I've identified the ones that might go past Hinksey on 6E55/6V84 and the Didcot PS flows (EWS, grey VTG & ex-FL green).

 

In typical model railway fashion, we had completed a set of re-liveried EWS Farish tankers a little while ago 

 

A couple of thoughts for the web-site:

• It would be nice to see what I voted for (& allow me to change if needed)
• It would be interesting to see the overall scores for the different liveries

 

Cheers,

Dave

[Revolution Mike]

Hi Dave

 

We will definitely be putting up scores for the different liveries - the priority yesterday was getting a decent survey format up and running.

 

Unfortunately I don't think it is possible to view your own scores.

 

Cheers, Mike

[woodenhead]

Outside my era

 

But a good choice of model nonetheless, I see plenty of these between Birmingham and Bristol on my travels and too am surprised that Bachmann haven't already done them in 4mm let alone 2mm.

[roundhouse]

A couple of photos taken of the Theale to Lindsey working passing through Banbury 2011.

 

I have seen the EWS ones but just cant lay my hands on the photos at the moment.

 

[Revolution Ben]

Hello all,

 

I thought it might be helpful to post a little data about the prototype, with some photos of the particular ones we are proposing.

 

The wagons were built from 2001, but due to variations in detail the ones we are focussing on are those built by Greenbrier from 2006.

 

The first batch are those built for VTG and are numbered VTG 88115-42 and painted Murco red.  The detail points are that the wagons have full length roof walkways and twin discharge pipes with single nozzles.

 

(photo: VTG)

 

The next batch of VTG wagons in the same series were intended for Conoco traffic and painted in their blue colour.  This photo shows the first in the series - VTG 88143.

 

  (photo: Tom Smith)

 

VTG also ordered another 19 wagons for spot hire/speculative use and because they were not intended for a particular refinery or company traffic they were simply painted VTG's own dark grey.

 

  (photo: Martyn Read)

 

EWS (as was) then placed a huge order for a further 145 wagons, however these had a slight detail difference:  the nozzles at each end of the discharge pipes were bifurcated.  As far as I am aware none of these tankers, now owned by DB Schenker, has been repainted or rebranded to reflect the company's new red livery.

 

  (photo: Tom Smith)

 

Subsequently, Freightliner ordered half a dozen and these also had the bifurcated nozzles...

 

(photo: Martyn Read)

 

However, Freightliner appear not to have pursued this traffic and the wagons were bought by VTG, who have now patch painted them to cover the original branding.  Note how, on this wagon at least, elements of the Freightliner log are still visible.   We are planning a rub-down transfer to allow our planned Freighltiner version to be rebranded in a similar way.

 

  (photo: Tom Smith)

 

There was a lull in production for 5 years until 2012, when new supplier Greenergy decided to take advantage of the environmental benefits of rail, partnering with VTG and a further 24 wagons were produced in two complementary liveries - blue and green.

 

  (photo: Martyn Read)

 

  (photo: Martyn Read)

 

The new wagons were built in a ratio of 2:1 and originally ran formed up with pairs of blue vehicles separated by a green vehicle, however nowadays due to shunting manoeuvres and so on the wagons are more mixed.  This publicity shot sent to us by Greenergy shows the original formation:

 

(photo: Greenergy)

 

Following on, and to take advantage of new business opportunities, VTG ordered a further batch.  These were painted in a slightly darker blue to the Conoco versions and carry a variety of environmental messages on the side.  Like the Greenergy wagons these have been given UIC numbers, though they still carry TOPS panels stating their type and tare weight data.

 

(photo: Tom Smith)

 

The wagons we are *not* doing are those operated by Petrochem Carless, Petroplus (now VTG) and the first batch of VTG blues, because they have significant detail variations including, but not always, different bogies, discharge pipe arrangements and walkways.

 

We may be we can offer these types at a later date, however with the liveries we are able to offer at the start the majority of current flows are catered for, and these wagons travel far and wide as the map earlier in the thread shows.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Ben A

[Glorious NSE]

However, Freightliner appear not to have pursued this traffic and the wagons were bought by VTG

 

From memory, Freightliner Heavy Haul originally had one of the contracts from Humberside (Conoco I presume, as it was the blue tanks?) - FLHH arranged the lease of an additional 6 wagons to increase the length of the rakes in use, which accounts for the small batch in FL green. A few years later FLHH lost the contract back to EWS so would have cancelled the lease at that point.

 

 

[roundhouse]

I had to be careful which tank photos I posted as there is quite a mixture in the train passing through Banbury as can be seen by the partially cropped wagon in the foreground!!

Edited March 27, 2015 by roundhouse

[Steadfast]

An extra bit about the green ones. Freightliner ordered 6 to bolster train lengths back when they were running traffic with blue VTG TEAs out of Humber. When DBS regained this traffic the wagons passed to VTG.

Edit - Martyn beat me too it, replying whilst I typed!

 

I believe you're right about all the EWS ones still being in that livery. Besides locos are the refurbished HKAs, very few wagons have gone red! It's surprising how much EWS lingers on, eight years after the DB takeover

 

jo

Edited March 27, 2015 by ewsjo

[Revolution Mike]

Hopefully this works - current state of play on livery choices:

 

TEA_liveries_27-03-15 by ukrail

 

Cheers, Mike

[Glorious NSE]

Is this the point where somebody pops up and says that EWS wagons don't sell? <Ducks!>   
 

I had to be careful which tank photos I posted as there is quite a mixture in the train passing through Banbury as can be seen by the partially cropped wagon in the foeground!!

 

I think one of the nice things with this prototype is that it can give you the basis for anything from an almost "open the box" unit train with the Greenergy ones to being a core fleet wagon that might make it worthwhile to scratchbuild or kitbash the few oddities that stand out in a rake, as with the EWS ones.

(Or a decent amount of help to a full-on project like Jo's 6B33!)

[Dave Searle]

Hopefully this works - current state of play on livery choices:

 

TEA_liveries_27-03-15 by ukrail

 

Cheers, Mike

In the words of small children everywhere - "Are we nearly there yet?" - it's been over 24 hours since we started. 

 

Many thanks Mike. 

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

[Great Western]

Firstly this is an excellent idea and you guys must be applauded for once again putting your money where your mouth is and actually doing it. 

 

However, generally these vehicles run in fixed rakes (subject to shunting needs of cripples etc) of upto 30 vehicles, only the Safin tanks run in reasonable rakes of 8-10 vehicles, but Bachmann already produce the Green TEA tanks.

 

I'm interested in the multi colour tanks the VTG Enviro tanks that run from South Wales with GBRf 66's on the front, but even a modest rake of say 15 is 5 multi packs. You estimate a price of £20-30 which I think is very reasonable compared to the latest Bachmann models. If we take the highest estimate of £30 per model, scale that upto a three model multi so £90, your looking at £450. Okay some of us have splashed out that for the 390, which I personally cant wait for !

 

What Im saying is, will there be a scaled discount for this kind of order, I assume the production run is a one off so there wont be the opportunity to acquire more over a period of time? or will the tools pass to your contract as per the 390? but then as per the latter scheme the price per model will obviously rise.

 

I'm fully behind this project, but I do hope you can come to an arrangement to allow individuals to acquire a reasonable rake at a reasonable price.

 

Also when is the deadline for orders/expressions of interest and how does the decision work? the top 3 models are taken forward etc?

 

Regards

Great Western

[Revolution Mike]

However, generally these vehicles run in fixed rakes (subject to shunting needs of cripples etc) of upto 30 vehicles, only the Safin tanks run in reasonable rakes of 8-10 vehicles, but Bachmann already produce the Green TEA tanks.

 

I'm interested in the multi colour tanks the VTG Enviro tanks that run from South Wales with GBRf 66's on the front, but even a modest rake of say 15 is 5 multi packs. You estimate a price of £20-30 which I think is very reasonable compared to the latest Bachmann models. If we take the highest estimate of £30 per model, scale that upto a three model multi so £90, your looking at £450. Okay some of us have splashed out that for the 390, which I personally cant wait for !

 

What Im saying is, will there be a scaled discount for this kind of order, I assume the production run is a one off so there wont be the opportunity to acquire more over a period of time? or will the tools pass to your contract as per the 390? but then as per the latter scheme the price per model will obviously rise.

Also when is the deadline for orders/expressions of interest and how does the decision work? the top 3 models are taken forward etc?

 

Hi GW

 

The shortest rake I've found so far was 9: https://flic.kr/p/gMtaAz but you are right they normally run in much longer rakes.

 

The great unknown for us is how many to produce and this has a very large influence on the final price.  Basically the more people are prepared to buy then the cheaper we can sell them.

At the moment we can only commit to producing what is ordered, but clearly if there is further unmet demand in 2-3 years time we can produce a second run etc (we can effectively re-open expressions of interest after the first run is produced and when sufficient interest is received we could produce a second run).

 

Our idea is to have some form of discount for the multi-packs.

 

Expressions of interest - we haven't set a deadline yet (and we are very happy with the responses so far) but given that there is no commitment to buy there is no incentive for people to wait in registering their interest.  The sooner that we get "sufficient" interest the sooner we will start design and open up the order book.

 

Decision making on models - provided any livery reaches a certain threshold we will produce it so in theory all the liveries could be produced (I certainly hope so!).

 

Cheers, Mike

[Revolution Mike]

On the N Gauge Forum I've been putting together a bit of information on flows - please feel free to add more!

 

Put the headcode into Flickr's search for lots of photos.

Robeston - Theale 6B33
Kingsbury - Humber 6E54
Humber - Kingsbury 6M00
Colnbrook - Lindsey 6E38 (Now run by Colas 60s, but not sure if they are VTG tanks still)
6V98 Lindsey - Westerleigh
6E82 Rectory - Lindsey
6D43 Jarrow - Lindsey
6V01 Lindsey - Cardiff Greenergy
6E12 Cardiff - Lindsey Greenergy

Some more possibles:
6M24
6E59
6E68

I'll add some more as I find them!

Cheers, Mike

[Great Western]

Thanks for the reply Mike, I've expressed an interest in x5 multi packs of the multi coloured tanks.............

 

The project is quite a remarkable one, as I think the services these tanks run like the 'Murcos' from West Wales to Westerleigh and Theale are quite iconic in the local areas, especially as theyre 9 times out of 10 a 60 on the front!

 

Looking forward to a very colourful kiddie coloured GB66 (the number escapes me now) and the mulit coloured tanks behind !

 

Great Western

[Dave Searle]

I have the flows (in 2010):

 

6E55 Theale - Lindsey (empty)

6V84 Lindsey- Theale (loaded)

 

Cheers,

Dave

[Glorious NSE]

The Stalybridge train is a manageable 12 from the pics I can find (unfortunately it's nocturnal most of the year!) - but the tanks are the early plain grey (CAIB/VTG lease) versions that aren't being done (yet).

Will try and dig some train shots out tonight if I get chance. 

In the interim, i've wagon shots here of this general design of tank if folk want some inspiration - if i've worked it out correctly, the specific version being modelled will cover any numbered higher than VTG 88115 ?
http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UKRailRollingstock/T/TEA-102t-bogie-tanks/TEA-102t-Bogie-tanks/

[Steadfast]

Mike, throw in 6E41 which is the return of V98 from Westerleigh, 6B13/6B47 Robeston - Westerleigh and return, 6V55 Bedworth - Robeston (not sure of the outbound). All the Robeston workings these days seem to use similar makeups with mixes of VTG red, various Murco livery TEAs (different types), TDAs and the odd grey VTG TEA thrown in.

Here's a few links that may provide some interest

6E41 Westerleigh - Lindsey: http://joalder.smugmug.com/search/?q=6e41&c=photos#i=0

60024 pumps out a plume of clag as it gets the tanks for 6E41 to Lindsey rolling at Westerleigh. Any of the older Caib branded grey tanks could equally be the VTG type being modelled from the same pool of wagons 25/6/11

 

6B33 Theale - Robeston/Margam: http://joalder.smugmug.com/search/?q=6e41&c=photos#i=30&q=6b33

 

60007 approaches Hullavington loop working 6B33 Theale - Margam. Wagons 5,8,9,10 and 16 are of the type being modelled 6/10/12

 

6B13 Robeston - Westerleigh: http://joalder.smugmug.com/search/?q=6e41&c=photos#i=24&q=6b13

 

60079 arrives at Westerleigh with 6B13 from Robeston, today with only 23 tanks in place of the normal 29. Vehicles 2,4, 9,10,12 and 13 are of the type modelled 13/4/12

 

6B47 Westerleigh - Robeston: 

 

60010 passes Westerleigh village with 6B47 Westerleigh - Robeston. Wagons 1,4,5,10,11,12 are the type modelled 2/9/10

 

Here's a link to my TEA tanks. http://joalder.smugmug.com/RollingStock/T-TOPS-code/TEA-102t-Bogie-Petroleum-Tanks/It includes some recent changes, like the grey ones running in the Murco trains and highlights that TEAs are a heck of a mixed fleet! The VTG owned ones seem to crop up all over the place

 

Hopefully this helps people rather than confuses them further!

 

jo

Edited March 27, 2015 by ewsjo

[Revolution Ben]

Hi Jo,

 

Some of those Murco trains are absolutely fantastic.

 

I haven't studied the big red Murco tanks closely, but I know they are a very similar design to the Greenbrier ones we are doing.  I believe they were built by Arbel Fauvet in 2001.  I could be wrong, as I don't have drawings, but it looks to me as though the actual tank barrel is the same shape - it is just the absence of the "solebar" along the lower edge that gives them a slightly pot-bellied appearance.  The bogies are the same, and it appears as if much of the brake "gubbins" and discharge equipment is similar or the same too.

 

With this in mind, I wonder whether our models might lend themselves to a simple conversion - remove the solebar, reprofile the cradle support ribs, remodel the brake/discharge supports and cut back (or etch from new) a different catwalk and with the right markings I think a very passable approximation may be possible.  This, I should add, is only an idea and I am not vouching for its accuracy!

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[jbqfc]

hi great choice of model a TEA to modern standards should do well i hope

a pic of a murco tank

TEA 89020 by JOHN BRACE, on Flickr

[ruggedpeak]

Hello Rugged Peak,

 

Thanks for your note.

 

N is our primary focus, and we don't know that much about the OO market, so we don't want to get sidetracked for the time being. Once the N model is underway then we will look seriously at OO.

 

Mike and I are both wary of over stretching ourselves and we feel that limiting it to the TEA in N for now is good way of testing our concept in a manageable way.

 

Cheers

 

Ben A.

No problem, look forward to seeing the N gauge version. 

 

And then the OO gauge version!

[Great Western]

I noticed Friday night whilst sat outside Cardiff Central station, waiting my signal to come back in with my ecs, that the Roberston to Westerleigh Murco rakes has a number of foreign, well EU registered tanks in the formation now, which looked like (baring in mind it was dark) they were pretty much frameless, as in just a basic frame work over the bogies, nothing under the actual tank. Making them look like tanks on wheels. They were black in colour with big EU registration number boards on the ends over the bogies.

 

Great Western