RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted March 28, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 28, 2015 There are various topics on the forum about whether to use cork underlay or other products. My query relates specifically to cork as I can't find an answer on other threads. For those of you that use cork (my track base will probably be MDF) do you simply lay the cork down and pin the track (eg Peco Code 100), or do you use anything to hold the cork in place (eg PVA spread thinly)? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Welly Posted March 28, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 28, 2015 Do not use latex based adhesives (eg Copydex) to fix the cork to the baseboard - drilling holes for wiring etc will drag on the latex and tangle up the drill bit and weaken the join. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 My first priority when laying track is to make sure it is laid flat. For a start I would never use MDF, good quality ply every time. The cork I use is supplied in rolls of 100 ft at a time from Charles Cantrill, stuck down to the ply using a thin line of pva, rolled flat with a wallpaper edge seam roller, after which I lay house bricks on top, end touching end, for 24 hours while the pva sets, over 'engineered' I know, but everything comes out perfectly flat. As included in the ( somewhat neglected) thread on my current layout in the signature below. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Like Paul I use PVA. I have used Cork Floor tiles, they are available from certail DIY outlets (Homebase) but the quality of the cork used is quite poor. It's good enough, but you can get better. It's a coincidence but I'd been researching cork supplies on the internet and ended up with the same supplier as Paul. They are most helpful. Don't be tempted to just use pins... If you then drill, the sawdust gets forced between the sub-roadben and the cork, creating a hump... Glue every time. It will stick to MDF if you wish (that's what I'm using currently) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ray H Posted March 28, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 28, 2015 I'm contemplating switching from cork to foam in an attempt to reduce the noise that I experience from the running trains. There is a significant noise difference on my present layout where the baseboard top material switches from plywood to the MDF used for the traverser bed. However, this coincides roughly with the change from ballasted to un-ballasted track. Cork and ballast were secured in place with diluted PVA. My plan was to use a diluted latex adhesive to secure the foam (at least) although I am conscious of reports on RMweb of the risk of snagging when drilling holes through the foam and adhesive into and through the baseboard. Is the risk of snagging lessened to any extent by using a diluted latex based adhesive? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 This is how I do it. Don't skimp on the glue, as I had a small area I had to redo, but don't get carried away either! I glue my track down, but I suppose if you're pinning it you will have a nice solid base to work on. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/95749-ingletyme-a-very-puzzling-blt/&do=findComment&comment=1773915 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Dread Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 I've always used PVA, applied sparingly, to stick down cork tiles which were purchased from Wickes. http://www.wickes.co.uk/Products/Flooring/Cork-Flooring-Tiles/c/1000892 The enclosed photo shows two baseboards, face to face with newspaper between them. The all important weight is another layout. Left for a couple of days and carefully ease apart just in case the glue has soaked through. As to the use of MDF, along with Sundeala, definitely not for me. I would always recommend a good grade of plywood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Good old chipboard is pretty good too, but not with the traditional 2x1 timber framing that warps. My first broad gauge layout had chipboard everything - top, framing and backscene, with just a few bits of timber for strengthening corners etc. I did a lot of exhibitions with it, and never had any problems, despite being mixed gauge to P4 standards, so potentially sensitive to warping. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 (edited) I'm contemplating switching from cork to foam in an attempt to reduce the noise that I experience from the running trains. There is a significant noise difference on my present layout where the baseboard top material switches from plywood to the MDF used for the traverser bed. However, this coincides roughly with the change from ballasted to un-ballasted track. Cork and ballast were secured in place with diluted PVA. My plan was to use a diluted latex adhesive to secure the foam (at least) although I am conscious of reports on RMweb of the risk of snagging when drilling holes through the foam and adhesive into and through the baseboard. Is the risk of snagging lessened to any extent by using a diluted latex based adhesive? Nope. The bloke who laid the track on my O gauge exhibition layout (Dock Green) used diluted Copydex to fix cork. This made it virtually impossible to drill a hole accurately. It tangles round the drill and pulls it sideways and this can also cause the top surface to distort. Personally I would never use cork ever again. I can't see any advantage to it and because it is soft it's thickness can be unpredictable. However I would guess that foam might well be even worse in this respect. I would much prefer a stable top surface (MDF or ply or even card) and live with any resultant noise. Maybe put foam or cork under the baseboard legs where it can do no harm?) I'm sure that you will get contrary views from other modellers and will have to make up your own mind. Might it be possible to use your current layout to do some experimenting? Chaz Edited March 28, 2015 by chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bri.s Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 (edited) I'd recommend a good ply probably about 9mm I've always used it and never had a problem I've never used MDF or chipboard so can't really comment . I'd stick the cork down with PVA ,roll the air pockets out (depending on thickness of cork)then put weight on it for 24 hours (like said above ) Brian Edited March 28, 2015 by bri.s Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted March 28, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 28, 2015 Thanks guys. I hadn't expected so many replies so soon. I guess we're not all at Ally Pally (my excuse is I'm 250 miles away....) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 I've drilled lots of holes through my cork stuck down with PVA, and it's fine. The cork can tend to close up the hole a bit, but that doesn't matter if you're shoving wires through it, as they'll still go through, so pins shouldn't be a problem. I must admit that I use cork because it's what I've always done, and haven't tried alternatives. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 I don't use cork to try, and deaden sound, I believe it's a myth, and trains make noises anyway, especially models driven far too fast . I use cork to a) give the track-bed a good profile, and b) to raise the track for rodding as my point-motors are all top mounted to ease my back trouble! Also if you have to use MDF/chipboard/sundeala for baseboards, you gotta make sure they're well sealed as they all have a bad habit of all too easy sucking up the damp from the atmosphere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanders Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Do not use latex based adhesives (eg Copydex) to fix the cork to the baseboard - drilling holes for wiring etc will drag on the latex and tangle up the drill bit and weaken the join. As a counterpoint, I have done exactly that and used Copydex to glue the cork down, but my baseboard is a 50mm sheet of extruded polystyrene, so I was able to punch through the cork & into the foam below with a bradawl rather than drilling. The track is also glued down with Copydex, and I plan to use a water/Copydex/IPA mix to glue the ballast. I should, in theory, be able to achieve that much sought after acoustic decoupling! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ray H Posted March 28, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 28, 2015 I experimented with extruded polystyrene but it wasn't for me. However, I did use grip fix (other makes etc . . . ) and that seemed OK for sticking the pieces of polystyrene together. I wonder if that would fix the foam down to the baseboard? I have to admit that I can't see an alternative to PVA for ballasting although this time I want to try the idea of covering the ground area with diluted PVA, laying the track on that and then sprinkling the ballast. It will be SMP or similar track so the depth of ballast should be a lot less. Maybe that will reduce the sound. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 (edited) I have to admit that I can't see an alternative to PVA for ballasting - I prefer using diluted water based wood stain/varnish by using various shades of oak, plus walnut, it then comes ready weathered, and keeps the sharp shape of the ballast, and not ending up with the porridge effect of painted model ballast. Edited March 30, 2015 by bike2steam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted March 28, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 28, 2015 I have to admit that I can't see an alternative to PVA for ballasting I used this product with some success on my last layout (no connection etc etc) http://www.tracklay.co.uk/ You still need to build up a shoulder with PVA and ballast it. I may use it again but at the moment, as you can see I'm seriously thinking about cork instead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium skipepsi Posted March 29, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 29, 2015 Went to Wickes today and bought a pack of cork floor tiles and some adhesive which is a form of PVA. The tiles are now airing for 24 hours and all being well I will be sticking them down late Monday or Tuesday. I will report back after that. I am using the tiles to give me room to use wire in tube for point control rather than sound deadening as some of the track will be in filled. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Dread Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Went to Wickes today and bought a pack of cork floor tiles and some adhesive which is a form of PVA. The tiles are now airing for 24 hours and all being well I will be sticking them down late Monday or Tuesday. I will report back after that. I am using the tiles to give me room to use wire in tube for point control rather than sound deadening as some of the track will be in filled. I would like to think the choice of Wickes was on my recommendation but can live with the chance it wasn't. Don't get to the state of not wasting cork bits on curved baseboards as I did. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm81 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I have Wickes cork tiles to go down too. Going to temporarily lay with double sided tape till all holes etc are made, then stick down with copydex. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arran Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 HI All A good contact adhesive works well but watch out for the fumes Regards Arran Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium skipepsi Posted March 30, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 30, 2015 Mine is a simple 4ft x2ft intended to be a P4 yard of various eras, one pack of tiles is enough to cover it all just two cuts to make the last bit fit. Andy P of Bitton recommended them to me a while back I think. I also tried B&Q but they don't sell them apparently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGC Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I have a board that has a plywood track base, and I will be putting cork on it (bought in my local model shop on a roll) before laying track. For glue, however, I will using an aerosol of carpet fixing glue - don't know what the constituents are, so it's a little bit of an experiment for me, but I reckon if it works for carpets, it will work for cork. Phil 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Aerosol carpet fixing glue is a contact adhesive, I don't think it will have the flexibility to adjust the position of the cork, if you need to slide it along to keep it level, as pva glue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold sjp23480 Posted March 30, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 30, 2015 On a slightly related matter, but does anyone have any tips for cutting the cork to form the shoulder of ballast either side of the track? Am thinking about the angle of the shoulder (45 degrees I guess) and the distance from the ends of the sleepers? Thanks Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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