alangdance Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Does anybody have any comments on the new Stainless steel rail from DCC Concept. Do we have an issue with electrical pick as SS does not conduct electricity as good as nickel silver? Can we overcome the pick up issue with more droppers? Does it actually require much less cleaning as stated by DCC Concept? Has anybody used the new SS. Regards Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted April 4, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 4, 2015 I am surprised that someone has thought it a good idea to make stainless steel rail. As OP mentions, conductivity is less good. Also, when a G scale track was produced some years ago with s/s rail, users said that tyres on loco wheels were wearing far more quickly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilloverland Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Would the generally higher voltage of dcc make up for lower conductivity? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theakerr Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Is it austenitic, martensitic or high Mn cheap mans stainless? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham_M Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 I don't believe conductivity is an issue with stainless steel rail as the difference ought to be negligible. What would concern me is the difficulty of making a reliable electrical connection, especially as you cannot solder the stuff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon H Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 You can solder stainless steel if you use the right flux. Carr's brown seems to be the one they recommend. Stainless steel rail is becoming very popular in Gauge 1 these days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Seeing as it is possible to get magnetic stainless steel, perhaps they're thinking of resurrecting 'Magnahesion'. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethashenden Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 This seems to be working to the theory that conduction problems are due to oxidisation, but isn't it really just dirt? Stainless won't help if there's a physical barrier like that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Johnson Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) *** Just to respond to the comments so far. (EVen the test run was 10,000 metres of rail to prove the tools... do you really think we'd invest so much without making sure its all good in every way??/) * You will not notice the difference in conductivity. * The stainess steel is 3-series and of high quality. It isn't possible to use lower quality as work hardening would prevent it being roleld properly. * It solders well with our No-clean flux and any solder containing a little silver. All you need do is use a 50W Iron or more and turn the soldering station up to max heat. A micro torch also works well, as does silver solder. NO NEED for the aggressive Carrs Brown... you could also use plain old powerflow if the Iron is man enough. * The much on Nickel silver rail is copper oxide - or more than 95% of it is. We had it analysed by a University lab. NS oxide = copper oxide, a core material in the making of resistors! * NO it isn't magnetic - the magnetic grades of SS corrode/rust unfortunately SS looks like steel but does not rust... and does not corrode or "Yellow". It is a pain to roll (needing double the rollers that NS does but we feel it was wirth the expense and difficulty because it solves THREE problems of NS rail all at once. * Oxidisation / pickup loss. * It isnt sliopery so locos pull more * It looks like Steel and NS doesn't ALSO - it custs with normal rail cutters and is really as easy to work and solder as other rail. ---------------------------- *** How do you like the Phosphor Bronze fishplates?? I am pleased with them :-) http://www.dccconcepts.com/track-trackmaking-parts/dccconcepts-track-and-trackmaking-parts/rail-joiners-bullhead-4mm-scale-phosphor-bronze-25-pack regards Richard Edited June 10, 2015 by Richard Johnson 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 *** How do you like the Phosphor Bronze fishplates?? I am pleased with them :-) Look nice in the pics, but why 6 bolt heads? Fishplates for UK Bullhead track are almost always 4 bolt (some use was made of short 2 bolt plates). Generally 6 bolt fishplates are used on modern Flatbottom track and are longer. Regards Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Johnson Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 *** True, but there is also a balance of pragmatism and logic in the choice.... just as selecting one of the common chair styles will eventually/soon be. With commercial reality at the fore, choices are needed as covering variants is not always possible. It was just my choice... a little like choosing a warm glow for gas lamps was because faulty modeller memory assigns that attribute to them, perhaps thanks to movies etc... when to be realistic they should have been a harsh greenish-white. * Yes, 4 bolt was more common but 6 bolts do exist - more commonly on point-work - which is where I think that they will be noticed far more... As much as we can argue over them, few really see the details in plain track. * Reality says that the vast majority of buyers of this item may well be laying bullhead track but their real life experience is almost wholly in the FB era and all they know is 6 bolt plates... so to most they will be as they expect... and to most observers of their efforts, they will either not even be noticed or will be seen as "right" too :-). * the use of 3 bolt allowed me to prove the possibility and allows me to re-use that part of the tooling for the FB versions that will also come... as I think existing mass market FB fishplates are less than good - another pragmatic reason... (That is important when an item already has high creative costs and its also worth remembering that this is a much finer item than others in material and in reality there are NO other practical fishplates with bolt detail) Richard 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Reichert Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 *** Just to respond to the comments so far. (EVen the test run was 10,000 metres of rail to prove the tools... do you really think we'd invest so much without making sure its all good in every way??/) I have already made stainless pre-formed crossings. But what do you use to file point blades? My machining experts advice and my own experience suggest that one needs to use carbide tools on stainless. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 given the work hardening that goes on in stainless, Id be wary of using it in hard built turnouts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidH Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 *** True, but there is also a balance of pragmatism and logic in the choice.... [...] * Yes, 4 bolt was more common but 6 bolts do exist - more commonly on point-work - which is where I think that they will be noticed far more... As much as we can argue over them, few really see the details in plain track. * Reality says that the vast majority of buyers of this item may well be laying bullhead track but their real life experience is almost wholly in the FB era and all they know is 6 bolt plates... so to most they will be as they expect... and to most observers of their efforts, they will either not even be noticed or will be seen as "right" too :-). I read this last week, and as luck would have it was travelling from Newcastle (East Coast mainline) to Loughborough (Midland main line) by train, via Newark (on the cross-country line to Nottingham). I looked out for bolt numbers and bar a couple of places where I noticed them on the main running lines (which is what I assume you mean by FB era trackwork), the only 6-bolt plates I saw were consistently at the toe end of turnouts, but even in turnout use most were 4-bolt plates. The overwhelming majority of joins away from turnouts, using FB rail (and bullhead in sidings and on the Great Central), were 4-bolt. (As everyone reading this already knows, I'm sure - but I wanted to check again for myself.) I like the product idea, but I reckon you're opening up a can of worms saying that most observers/users of the product will be ignorant that they're incorrect or won't notice the difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulT Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I have started a crusade recently to encourage 4mm code 75 NS rail suppliers known to me ( C&L, EMGS, S4Socy) to get their common supplier to replace the rollers/die or whatever forms the section. Stock sold in recent several years has the wrong head profile and looks like well-worn rail. I suspect, but have not proved, that it reduces running reliability too since the wheel coning and rounded rail head gauge corner act as two parts of a system. I wonder if DCC Concepts' stainless steel rail has the correct section?? If so I will buy some and give it a try. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted June 15, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 15, 2015 Although stainless steel can be soldered, it is a pain, and requires an aggressive flux which needs cleaning off afterwards. OK for a physical fixing, but totally unsuitable for electrical connections. Electrical connections to stainless steel should be clipped or crimped. Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
puck Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I read this last week, and as luck would have it was travelling from Newcastle (East Coast mainline) to Loughborough (Midland main line) by train, via Newark (on the cross-country line to Nottingham). I looked out for bolt numbers and bar a couple of places where I noticed them on the main running lines (which is what I assume you mean by FB era trackwork), the only 6-bolt plates I saw were consistently at the toe end of turnouts, but even in turnout use most were 4-bolt plates. The overwhelming majority of joins away from turnouts, using FB rail (and bullhead in sidings and on the Great Central), were 4-bolt. (As everyone reading this already knows, I'm sure - but I wanted to check again for myself.) I like the product idea, but I reckon you're opening up a can of worms saying that most observers/users of the product will be ignorant that they're incorrect or won't notice the difference. 6 bolt ones will be Edilons which are insulated for track circuits and as such would be found near points. Normally a 4 bolt one is used to joint rail. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted June 15, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 15, 2015 6-bolt fishplates can't be used with bullhead rail because they would force the timbers too far apart to properly support the joint. Unlike flat-bottom, bullhead fishplates must fit between the chairs and keys, not over the top of the baseplates. That's why 2-bolt fishplates were sometimes used -- to get the timbers closer to the joint. For normal bullhead track, 4-bolt fishplates with adjacent timbers at 24" or 25" centres are near universal. Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 You can't tell the length from the pictures, if the 4 central bolts are correctly spaced then it would be possible (although not very practical and hardly acceptable for a premium product) to cut the ends off. I had initially assumed they were 4 bolt length with an extra bolt in between, looking again they do look a bit longer than a 4 bolt should be (a picture against a ruler would help) which as Martin says would prevent them fitting between the chairs at the joints. Regards Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trog Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 The bolt spacing is wrong for British Bullhead even if you trimmed the plates down to four holes, also the traditional bolt used was pan, pear square so one side of the rail should have round bolt heads and the other usually the outside square nuts. There was some use of three hole plates for which half of one of these plates would work, but they were I believe rather rare. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulT Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 I have started a crusade recently to encourage 4mm code 75 NS rail suppliers known to me ( C&L, EMGS, S4Socy) to get their common supplier to replace the rollers/die or whatever forms the section. Stock sold in recent several years has the wrong head profile and looks like well-worn rail. I suspect, but have not proved, that it reduces running reliability too since the wheel coning and rounded rail head gauge corner act as two parts of a system. I wonder if DCC Concepts' stainless steel rail has the correct section?? If so I will buy some and give it a try. I did email DCC Concepts asking about the rail profile and after 2.5 weeks.....no response. Perhaps they are on holiday or don't know the answer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Reichert Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 I did email DCC Concepts asking about the rail profile and after 2.5 weeks.....no response. Perhaps they are on holiday or don't know the answer. You'd get a better response if you offer to cough up the $12, 000 or so yourself that it would take for just one set of new dies and the nominal min 50Kg run of the rail. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Re6/6 Posted July 9, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 9, 2015 Is this rail available from a supplier in the UK? Obviously it can be ordered from Oz! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulT Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 You'd get a better response if you offer to cough up the $12, 000 or so yourself that it would take for just one set of new dies and the nominal min 50Kg run of the rail. Andy I am advised that it is probably rolled, not extruded. Fair comment, and that may be a bottom line whether it is dies or rollers.. However as existing UK suppliers allegedly use the same manufacturer I have, in recent months, encouraged them to get together. All gave a positive response to the idea initially and I await feedback. I don't know if DCC Concepts have there own die or are getting it made by the same factory in UK. I don't know if stainless steel would go through the same tooling, I hope NOT as it might wear the tool faster than the N/S and mild steel. As i have had good communication from DCC Concepts before I am surprised at being ignored, especially as I asked about UK stockist so I can buy and try some. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulT Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Is this rail available from a supplier in the UK? Obviously it can be ordered from Oz! I have asked DCC Concepts re this and had no response in some weeks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now