Wish-Listing, Advocated and Argued.

[SamTom]

In the couple of months since I took an interest in model rail on-line, I (we) have been invited to submit thoughts to (at least) two wish-list compilations. To encourage us, we're told that rtr producers are attentive to these lists. They are therefore hopefully useful, and they're also quite fun. I assume that there are quite a lot of them.

 

There are problems that may present themselves, however. One is that, while the surveys produce aggregate figures, it seems they are aggregated from a very limited range of submitters - we who visit the sites. Another is that submissions can appear rather ill-informed, with e.g. entries in the recent RMWeb survey (NRM stock) being made for items already in current or recent production - there being no room for explanations as to why the choices were made. A third is that the voting list must, by its nature, be constrained.

 

But, the surveys are a place where model producers can look, without complication, for valuable market research.

 

With this last in mind, I therefore ask whether the following might be of use to the producers: (I suggest...)

 

1. A thread where each post is dedicated to a single suggestion, (locomotive, coach, carriage, accessory, etc.) with supporting arguments presented in as concise a way as possible.

 

1a. Proposals should avoid items that are or are still readily available, but may include items that are easily produced at home (not all of us have the skills, etc.) 1b. It would be preferable to avoid items which producers are already likely to be well informed about, including items which have already topped, say, RMWeb's survey.

 

2. Response to any post ONLY by a.) any producer who may wish to do so, or b.) anyone who has a cogent point to make which has been missed by the proposer. This, to avoid proposals becoming swamped by discussion.

 

3. Support for a proposal to be indicated ONLY by an 'agree' added to the post, again to avoid discussion clouding the issue - let's make it as clear and straightforward as possible for the producers to see the rabbits.

 

4. Opposition to a suggestion (why oppose someone else's wish?) will also only cloud the thread.

 

I am following this opening post with a couple of my own suggestions to get the ball rolling. Mostly repetition from elsewhere; but, if my cunning plan should work, appearing in a single thread where producers may come to know as a place where they can look.

 

(If this idea has already been tried elsewhere {I find that searches on this site bring up just too much info!}, then my apologies - but this thread will simply die if it's not needed.)

[Andy Y]

I'm confused; model rail on-line? NRM survey on RMweb? (No, that was MREmag).

 

We work with the Wishlist Poll Team to host the Wishlist Poll in the autumn.

 

Apart from that the topic just seems to be soliciting random wishing (which is a fat lot of good).

[SamTom]

I'm confused; model rail on-line? NRM survey on RMweb? (No, that was MREmag).

 

We work with the Wishlist Poll Team to host the Wishlist Poll in the autumn.

 

Apart from that the topic just seems to be soliciting random wishing (which is a fat lot of good).

An error (for which apologies) can be corrected, and poor phrasing clarified.

 

I'm surprised that Andy Y, an administrator (who may be the one who 'approved' this item) didn't wait to see what I was going to produce - a sample of what I was looking for - before being so crushing. What I'm suggesting was something quite different from a wishlist poll. The hint is in the thread title.

 

I'm truly sorry I bothered to make the effort.

 

But I will make the effort to say this before I sign off for good. In my brief time on this site, I've seen so many put-downs, such sarcasm, that it won't uoset me to go. Andy Y's post hints at where it comes from.

[chris p bacon]

But, the surveys are a place where model producers can look, without complication, for valuable market research.

 

 

I'm sure you will find that the manufacturers are already reading the general chat on the forums to get an idea of wishlists as well as any surveys

 

I'm surprised that Andy Y, an administrator (who may be the one who 'approved' this item)

 

"Just an administrator".....has he been demoted then..

[Loconuts]

SamTom

 

(If this idea has already been tried elsewhere {I find that searches on this site bring up just too much info!}, then my apologies - but this thread will simply die if it's not needed.)

 

I take it that this topic is dead?

 

Loconuts

[Mike Storey]

I think you have been rather obnoxious and pedantic with SamTom - I could see where he was coming from, but you decided to deride his comments and cut him down, rather than offering practical responses, even disagreement, but not the patronising dismissal of something he has put some thought into.

 

Not a pleasant sight. I hope you think again before doing this to anybody else.

[Andy Y]

I think you have been rather obnoxious and pedantic with SamTom - I could see where he was coming from, but you decided to deride his comments and cut him down, rather than offering practical responses, even disagreement, but not the patronising dismissal of something he has put some thought into.

 

Not a pleasant sight. I hope you think again before doing this to anybody else.

 

Sorry you feel that way but when someone comes into a room to address an audience it's poor form to criticise the room's occupants for something outside of the site being addressed, not that I believe there was anything wrong with MREmag's poll of a defined list of potentially viable items.

 

I also think the OP displays a capacity for over-sensitivity - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/97590-Bachmann-class-03/?p=1834358

 

A little searching of the site would have shown the basis on which we support the leading Wishlist Poll, the intention may have been to create a more intelligent topic but history shows that any number of similar topics just end up as a meaningless and purely personal "I want" rather than anything like the well-argued "LNER consensus" topic of some years back. One topic with random campaigning would be very unlikely to produce the desired result from a manufacturer anyway; there's an awful lot more to it all than that.

[Ian J.]

I'm afraid that the 'self-policing' required in the OP's idea is something that just doesn't happen on forums (of any ilk, on any subject). Threads always get sidetracked in minutiae, arguments and irrelevant comments, and have to end up being moderated and pruned to keep them on topic. I don't believe any admin or moderator would want to be doing that with a thread with posts for every suggestion.

 

As it stands, the MREmag poll in its current form seems to be doing a quite reasonable job of providing some kind of focus for our wants and wishes.

[steveb860]

 

I'm surprised that Andy Y, an administrator (who may be the one who 'approved' this item) 

Yes, just who does this Andy Y think he is. The way he carries on,you would think he was the one who created this site......oh, that's right, he did.

[Mike Storey]

I'm afraid that the 'self-policing' required in the OP's idea is something that just doesn't happen on forums (of any ilk, on any subject). Threads always get sidetracked in minutiae, arguments and irrelevant comments, and have to end up being moderated and pruned to keep them on topic. I don't believe any admin or moderator would want to be doing that with a thread with posts for every suggestion.

 

As it stands, the MREmag poll in its current form seems to be doing a quite reasonable job of providing some kind of focus for our wants and wishes.

 

This would have been a more appropriate response to SamTom, and, is unfortunately highly correct!

 

It does not slag him off for daring to suggest something, as a relatively new member.

It does not vent one's spleen at the OP over one's frustrations at past misdemeanors, with both barrels.

It does give the OP a recognition of respect which may encourage him to post further, even though this idea probably did not have legs.

 

I realise times are hard and this forum can be very demanding and frustrating for mods, but I really would ask all of us not to get into a sardonic, been-there/done-that mindset, which will totally discourage any new ideas (and new members) and add to the widely touted demise of our hobby, and its suppliers.

[Norm81]

Yes, just who does this Andy Y think he is. The way he carries on,you would think he was the one who created this site......oh, that's right, he did.

That is true, that Andy Y created the first incarnation of this site. However in my opinion that doesn't give him the right to be rude, derisory and condescending towards anyone he feels like, new members or old.

[black and decker boy]

Andy's response may have been brisk but rude, derisory and condescending, I think not.

 

Some people are just a little too touchy and a wish listing thread is generally regarded on here as hard work and a waste of bandwidth, hence the annual poll for everyone to vent their froth within.

 

Take a chill pill and concentrate on modelling :-)

[woodenhead]

The problem with wish listing and having a forum where the manufacturers can comment is that they simply wouldn't.

 

The manufacturers like to guard their next products until it is too late for competition to jump them with a rival product. We'd all love there to be some sort of clearing house so we avoid duplication, get complementing models but as we have seen with the Radial, class 71 and the King that is not about to happen.

 

Secondly there have been a couple of threads about locomotives that people would like Hornby to update, the numbers of people agreeing is not about to set the world on fire (but hopefully might make Hornby think).

 

Choice of models by a manufacturer is more than ticks on a Wishlist so whilst these annual surveys are useful they are not the be all and end all of how a model gets to market.

 

It was interesting that Hornby actually asked us to Wishlist it's next N model, I wonder if they will pick the item at the top of the list or if they had something else planned and used the Wishlist to perhaps test out where that item would be ranked.

 

I'm staying out of the politics.

[JimF51]

Andy may have been a bit short with his reply, but how many of these types of ideas pop up that he sees. Someone always wanting to re-invent a wheel. And personally, I think the OP himself was a bit sarcastic, with his "{I find that searches on this site bring up just too much info!}, and his own sense of cleverness, with "if my cunning plan should work".

 

This is a forum, for discussions. The OP's plan would not allow discussion, just voting, basically. So why create a separate thread for each individual model wished for? Personally, I think wish lists are not very useful, but if people want them, then the way it is done now seems to be sufficient.

 

Jim F

[lefrog97]

I can retrospectively see the potential value, but I have to admit that Jim's post really does show the disadvantages of it. I think that there should be capacity for debating on wish lists, but even so; I just think it's a little unnecessary.

 

As said before, the current system works just fine; as the saying goes: if it ain't broke, don't fix it