Modified RTR challenge 1929 GWR 5205 class

[Darwinian]

When I get a chance I'll bring more details on this over from my loco building thread.

 

This is a relatively straightforward project (I hope) as I have limited time due to family and day job.

I have got a Finney Aberdare to build that's been sat in my cupboard for at least 4 years but I'll never complete it in the time frame .

 

For those who haven't seen it this project is to take a Hornby first batch 5205 and backdate it to 1929 condition as well as improve on the weak areas of the model. Relatively little has been done so far apart from the stripping down and removing the unwanted details.

 

Just to be extra difficult the starting place was a BR era model as I'm reluctant to hack up a model that cost me full price and I saved about £40 on the current  price for the Great Western version.

 

Of course that introduced extra work in having to remove the smokebox numberplate, fill in the bunker recess and find a replacement for the short safety valve cover .

 

Going to have to do something about those horrible Hornby slidebars too .

 

Darwinian

[Darwinian]

OK first plea for advice.

 

I'm sure I read somewhere a means of replacing Hornby crankpin bolts with something closer to scale. I'd like to do this as I don't really like the oversize connecting rod bosses and hexagonal bolt heads BUT I don't want to change the wheels (cost as it's staying 00).

 

Any suggestions?

 

Darwinian

[Darwinian]

So a first progress report since starting this challenge.

 

At EXPO EM I acquired a Gibson safety valve/topfeed that neatly fits the hole left by removing the Hornby one. A little black milliput pushed in from below filled up a slight gap at the front.edge of the bonnet. This will need sanding down smooth but is close already.

 

 

After much contempltation I've decided to leave the crossheads and slidebars as Hornby made them. An upgrade would require a new crosshead and probably a new crankpin to take the connecting rod so I've decided that from normal viewing distances this will have to do. However I didn't like the fact that the piston rod just moves through an oversize hole in the plastic cylinder back. So I drilled out a length of brass tube to be an easy sliding fit on the smoothed off piston rod. This was easily fitted on one side where the cylinder back had not been glued in but on the other I had to fit it from the outside as the cylinder back would not come off without risk of damaging it.

The loose one is shown below.

 

 

Finally the Brassmasters replacement cab rear has been fitted along with filling in the hole where the lamp iron recess was and replacing the moulded lamp irons with ones made from staples.

 

[Darwinian]

A bit more progress.

 

A blast of grey primer reveals that the body mods have gone quite well. The outline of the cabside shutter is still apparent on this side but barely discernable at all on the other .

 

A second cab tip seat has been added so i can put in a sitting down crew. Bums on seats = less likely to fall off .

 

The washout plugs in the boiler casing top look OK. However the photo did reveal that I'd managed to squish one of the handles on the filler caps    drat been trying really hard not to do that. I doubt if this one will straighten without snapping, Darned difficult things to replace with any strength too.

 

Lastly to add extra weight as the haulage capability on the gradients on my layout isn't as good as a bachy 56xx. After all the problems with expansion cited for liquid lead I now put it in containers rather than just fixing it as a soild mass, Here are the two to fill the bunker space (providing a supoprt for a coal load too) and to slide inside the smokebox. These are designed to be removable until i can check that they help. The loco body is now rather front heavy but there is more mass in the rear end of the chassis. Metal crew figures will help a little too .

 

 

More sanding down in places and then Archer rivets to replace those missing/removed.

[N15class]

looking very nice. I would sand that shutter back further it will be worse after painting.

 

There is no problem with using liquid lead as long as you do not use PVA products with it resin are fine.

[autocoach]

Very interesting. I have a similar project on my workbench to rebuild my Hornby R3125 5274 into a 5205 that was not rebuilt to a 72xx. Not re-gauging to P4 or EM as I also run some HO US stock on my switching plank.  I had a problem with rear set of drivers getting out of quarter and have decided to replace the coupling rods but not the connecting rods along with a Hornby spare driver from Peter's Spares. Using the Brassmasters coupling rods and detailing etches. Thought about doing Gibson replacement drivers but decided that I am a little lazy and have too many other projects. And these days my focus is on SR 1945-47 steam anyway. But I do like the look of the 42xx and 5205 classes.  I think I will renumber it as 5214 even though I doubt that engine ever worked in Cornwall. Only one digit to change on the buffer beams. I will get around to ordering a brass number plate when I feel fully committed to 5214.

 

I am not going to do a full repaint but have stripped the GREAT WESTERN from the tank sides and will now have to figure out how to mask so I only repaint the sides. Experimenting with acrylic paints locally available and have decided Tamiya Deep Green with about 10% flat black is a suitable match for the Hornby color. Now how to mask and spray.  The engine should probably be in wartime black anyway instead of green. I am just assuming it was not repainted and still lettered with the postwar GWR on the tank sides.

 

If I make any progress I will put it on my Padstow-The End of the Line thread.

 

Hope to see more of your progress soon.

 

best

[Darwinian]

I've been playing with ideas on how to get some springing/side control on the pony truck, so far without success,

 

However the cabside shutters have been further removed. One tank filler handle fell off and had to be replaced with a wire fabrication. I had to very cautiously melt this into the front of the filler clamp bar as the mounting was too narrow to drill into, the drill just kept breaking out sideways.

 

However on a more positive note the rear frame overlays and built up sandboxes are now done.

 

 

The newer (Hornby)  batch include the rear guard irons but mine being an original batch loco did not.

 

When I reassembled the chassis there was a distinct bind in forwards but not reverse that wasn't there before. Cursing I started searching for a cause and was relieved to find that I hadn't tightened two of the crankpins fully and they had worked loose, the coupling rod was slipping between its bearing surface and the wheel boss. Sigh of relief and now running as smoothly as when purchased.

[Darwinian]

Matching / replacing the rivet detail has proved a bit tricky. These show about the best I can manage using Archre transfers. I will consider whether to re-do them as the alignment, especially on the bunker rear is not perfect. They look OK without the enlargemnet and I can't actually see the original ones left on the bumker wiithout a magnifying glass.

 

 

Luckily positioning the rivets on the cab side made me realise that the horizontal handrail to the front of and below the cab cutout was only moved there when the side shutters were fitted. Holes duly plugged with plastic rod and new ones drilled ahead of the cutout and in line with the rear one.

 

 

I also noticed that the short rivet runs on the tanks don't reach down to the footplate on the prototype. Hornby have got this wrong. I estimated that removing the bottom 3 of these rivets on each run looked about right. They probably neeed a little more smothing away still.

 

I'm also thinking that the rivet run around the cab cutout might need completing all the way around.

 

I'll have a long think about trying again with the rivets, will have to do the handrails too before I give it a blast of undercoat.

 

[Darwinian]

In the end I managed to reposition the rivets using micro sol so they lined up better.

 

The horizontal row where the shutter used to be looked too spaced out so I added a second run fitted between the first. I also managed to coax some around the cab opening to continue the Hornby line.

 

After a blast of primer here are the results. The primer has gone on a bit grainy today (blast). Close ups really make the minor blemishes show. These are largely invisible to the naked eye.

 

 

 

The missing rib flange the top of the bunker rear panel was replaced using some stretched sprue, the only thing I could think of that would be fine enough, it could do with a little tidying up at the right hand end. The Archer rivets are quite a good match to the Hornby ones.

 

 

Finally the new look smokebox dart (of course if you have one of the new batch this doesn't need doing).

 

 

All of the handrails are the originals carefully saved and labelled for re use. Luckily the tails on these were just long enough to be able to space them out from the sides at a suitable distance.

 

Think its time for some green paint next and the end is in sight.

[Darwinian]

The end has been delayed .

 

Actually I got increasingly irritated by the cylinder drain cock arrangement portrayed by Hornby on this version (don't know if the GWR period ones are the same). The Hornby version has three drains connected by twin rod arrangements, these appear to be a later modification, seen on late build 5205 and BR era locos (new cylinder desgn?). All of the pictures I have checked that are 1920s-30 show a simpler two drain cock arrangement with a single, quite delicate connecting linkage.

 

So I pulled off the plastic representations, which disintegrated in the process, and I am now faced with how to build the replacements. I have done it before on a County Tank but I can't remember how I did it .

 

Maybe someone has some decent close up photo's of this arrangement?

 

At least the first coat of pre-1928 loco green looks OK.

[gwrrob]

There are plenty of photos online of Goliath that might help here.

[Darwinian]

Thanks for the suggestion but Goliath appears to have the later drain cock arrangement. The difficulty I'm finding is that the drain cocks are often in shadow or obscured by the bulge of cylinder above them.

[Darwinian]

Think I have a solution for making them.

 

The actual drain cocks look much like handrail knobs with a pipe coming out of the end and the operating linkage connected to one side (where the handrail would be).

 

A few minutes experimenting produced this simple jig to drill 0.45mm holes vertically (ish) into a handrail knob.

 

 

A short handrail knob is a push fit into the lower double layer of 1mm plasticard. The upper layer fits over the handrail knob head. This was done by drilling all three 0.7mm opening out the bottom two with a fine broach until the knob could be pressed in. The upper one was then opened out to slip over the head of the handrial knob, which comes fractionally above the top surface when this layer is pressed down firmly,

 

The guide is a piece of narrow brass tubing that provides a sliding fit for the 0.45mm drill bit and is soldered into a suitable hole in a scrap of nickel silver fret etch.

 

The bottom end of the tube was then dished using a 1mm drill bit to provide location on top of the handrail knob.

Put together and I can feel when the tube is engaged on top of the handrail knob. The guide is then taped on to hold it in place.

 

If you look carefully you may be able to make out the hole in the end of the handrail knob in the jig.

 

The plasticard base probably won't last for long but only took a few minutes to make and I only need to drill 4 handrail knobs. The operating linkage will be from etch fret scrap.

 

[Edited to include image]

 

 

 

 

[Darwinian]

Very fiddly these. Anyway this is what I've managed, hopefully they will look OK when mounted on the cylinders.

 

5 drain cocks and two sets of linkage. The linkage was made from fret waste, the actuating arms(?) were made from an over width piece, drilled 0.45mm at the free end (other end still attached to fret), punched 2mm away, filed back parallel to the holes and as close as I dared, cut away with a scalpel and the end shaped.

 

The non-drilled actuators are simply bits of wagon strapping from the same MJT w-iron fret as the waste.

 

The linking rod is bits of a spare safety loop from a masokits brake gear etch. I've got a box full of scrap etch of various origins.

 

 

Just got to glue 'em on now.

[Siberian Snooper]

I have just caught up with this thread, excellent work and a few pointers to a long term project I am progressing slowly, which is back dating a baccy 45xx. Having removed the outside steam pipes and cab shutters, I have need to replace rivets etc.

[Darwinian]

Now we are getting somewhere. Unfortunately I got a rather grainy texture from the rattle can primer (probably didn't shake the can long enough) but it looks fine when not cruelly enlarged.

 

So on went: Phoenix Precision Pre 1928 Green (by airbrush), Humbrol matt black (thinned and by brush), Humbrol acrylic red (by brush), HMRS pressfix transfers (aided with a little microsol) for which the "E" power classification had to be a "B" with the curves cut off, 247 dev. numberplates (these probably should be cream rather than brass as I think these locos had cast plates but I doubt I could do them neatly enough). All topped off with two coats of humbrol acrylic satin varnish from the air brush. I painted the running plate separately and varnished it in the same way.

 

When applying the transfers i looked to use the tank front steps as a datum for placing the "Great Western" lettering and realised there weren't any on the locos in this period. Should have noticed that before. I trimmed them off and made good the painting with careful brushwork.

 

 

 

 

Once well weathered this should all look OK I hope.

 

Now I have to wait for the rain to stop, so I can get the airbrush out again.

 

 

[Brinkly]

You have made a really good job repainting your loco. The colour is lovely, the green looks very realistic.

 

Kind regards,

Nick.

[Darwinian]

Almost done now. The backhead has been refitted and the cab glazing restored. The last bits of construction on the body were fitting the couplings and buffer heads.

 

The last chassis additions were the corrected brake pull rods and the ejector drain pipes. These are quite a tricky bit of wire bending with an etched bracket carefully soldered on with 120 degree solder and a fine iron tip. I've no idea if I've got the bracket quite right as it is very difficult to see on the prototype. Hopefully once black and dirty it will pass muster.

 

This is the side that will normally be viewable on my current layout.

 

 

The other side and front.

 

 

The bunker showing the significant change of appearance from Hornby's version (at least on what this started out as).

 

 

 

Overall I'm quite pleased with this and now have a version of these impressive locos not yet produced RTR. In fact hardly any seem to have been produced in "Great Western" livery.

 

Just got to paint the injector pipes and then filthy the whole thing so that it looks like a Valleys workhorse.

 

 

 

[Mikkel]

What a lovely beast. Somehow it has more presence and weight than the Hornby donor loco. Your clever mods have blended in really well, I think. Where can i vote? :-)

[Darwinian]

I don't know if anyone is still following these but here is "the beast"  after an initial weathering, by airbrush. All over Precision "frame dirt" then worked on the top and cab roof especially with the same plus added matt black.

 

 

Needs a bit of detail weathering and grotting in around the nooks and crannies. I used to use Martyn Welch's technique of washing the partially hardened enamel off with a cotton bu soaked in thinnners but recent Humbrol thinners seem to attack the acrylic satin varnis too. I'm going to experiement with some Lifecolur washes.

 

Yes the cab roof is still loose. I haven't coaled it or fitted a crew yet.

[Allegheny1600]

Hi there,

That looks absolutely wonderful, very well done!

How well does she run (& pull) now that you added additional weight, please?

Cheers,

John.

[Darwinian]

Hi there,

That looks absolutely wonderful, very well done!

How well does she run (& pull) now that you added additional weight, please?

Cheers,

John.

 

Thanks for the kind comments.

Running is quite smooth, but then it was before I started. As for pulling ability, I cannot really test this on my relatively short BLT. If I get a chance I'll try loading it up with etched brass coaches and see how it copes with the gradient up out of my fiddle yard. The rigid chassis was causing adhesion problems due to my fairly abrupt gradient change meaning that the middle wheelsets were not contributing much.

If I needed to increase haulage capacity I'd build a chassis with some suspension but it copes fine with the 10-15 coal wagons that are the limit of my fiddle yard length.

 

Adrian

[Allegheny1600]

Hi Adrian,

Thank you for that, just what I was looking for!

I've been a big fan of these engines ever since I first saw one, I had never known such large tanks existed in Britain previously so must look out for one. I'm really please to hear they're good runners.

Cheers,

John.

[autocoach]

My 42xx still sits in dismantled state in a project box on a shelf buried with other slumbering projects. It started as a fix for 2 drivers that has slipped.  Somehow it just lost my interest along the way. GWR 2-8-0 locomotives are a Rule 1 sideline to my principle effort with the SR 1947 version of Padstow. A ride behind preserved examples on the Bodmin and Wenford and Paignton and Dartmoth some years back are what stirred my interest inf the first place,

 

I am still very thankful for this topic as it steered me into the Brass Masters replacement parts and a lot more examination of the modification possibilities.. One of these days I will drag the project out and finish it. 

 

Again thanks for this very informative topic.