Talyllyn Junction. The Station area has been started!

[Jintyman]

The route into Brecon via Talylllyn Jcn was quite heavily restricted.  In 1947 it was restricted to 'Uncoloured' and 'Yellow' restriction engine sonly although B*M engines coded 'Blue' were permitted as were ex TVR Class O4.  I can't find any authority back then for 56XX to go north of Pontsticill.  All photos of the BR period which I have seen have only shown 'Yellow' restriction engines north of Pontsticill - latterly only 57XX panniers, and of course the Ivatt Class 2 2-6-0s plus 2251 0-6-0s.

 

Like many routes in South Wales which closed to passenger traffic c.1962 the services from Newport to Brecon were never dieselised and of course the 'terror' of Seven Mile Bank was a further factor although in reality there were probaly insufficient dmus available and it would be seen as a waste of money to train Brecon men on them.  From Brian's comment about an EE Type 3 at Dolygaer it seems likely that they were permitted on the freight workings which remained as South Wales was dieselised - the only real alternative being a 350 (class 08), which would have taken rather a long time to get to Brecon from Merthyr let alone Newport.  The thought of a D63XX on Seven Mile Bank suggests to me that they weren't even considered (too much training let alone their other issues) so simply authorise the EE Type 3 restricted as necessary.

 

I doubt the 82XXX 2-6-2Ts got up there - plenty of work for them in the Cardiff Valleys before the dmus arrived.

Thank you for the very comprehensive answer, I wonder why the photo shows the 56xx on a Brecon train, unless the caption was incorrect.

 

You mentioned above about a larger sized signal diagram for Talyllyn Junction West, do you have one? if so, is it possible to view it please? I have numerous articles, photos and information, but no signal diagram or track plan, and there doesn't appear to be much available on the net either.

 

Thanks again

 

Jinty ;-)

[The Stationmaster]

Thank you for the very comprehensive answer, I wonder why the photo shows the 56xx on a Brecon train, unless the caption was incorrect.

 

You mentioned above about a larger sized signal diagram for Talyllyn Junction West, do you have one? if so, is it possible to view it please? I have numerous articles, photos and information, but no signal diagram or track plan, and there doesn't appear to be much available on the net either.

 

Thanks again

 

Jinty ;-)

The signal plan is, alas, on an SRS disc and is therefore copyright so I can't post it here.  The disc is the South Wales one, available only from the SRS, but a bit pricey (now over £20 to non members) for just one drawing.

 

As far as track plans are concerned there is no doubt at all that the best information will be found in Section 59 of R.A. Cooke's  'Track Layout Diagrams of the Great Western Railway and BR Western Region' which, remarkably is still in print (fully revised edition) but Lightmoor Press are showing it as 'sold out' - however you might be able to find a copy on the 'net?

 

http://lightmoor.co.uk/category.php?&section=Track%20Plans

Edited May 14, 2015 by The Stationmaster

[Jintyman]

 

Thank you,

 

I quite understand the Copyright elements, and the subscription costs of detailed information such as that.

I've put the ISBN search on that South American river site, and lo and behold a S/H copy is available, duly purchased.

 

Thanks again for your information.

 

Jinty

[Jintyman]

Having a reasonable day today, following up on some research, and ordering a book with a trackplan of TJ, I received this pleasant little item in the post along with some track gauges and a slightly bigger box which I'll come to later.

 

 

Railway Magazine from June 1951, which has a 6 pages long article on TJ, with an additional 2 page spread of 4 plates of pictures, which 2 I hadn't seen previously. There is one picture within the article which shows a L&Y 0-6-0 and tender loco emerging from Talyllyn tunnel bound for Hereford.

I think the loco is the 3F class 28, but I'll stand corrected.

 

 

 

The slightly bigger box was this..........

 

 

Which will be the first piece of stock to arrive for TJ. I've had a quick glance, but will look in more detail later.

 

So some reading and checking a kit this evening. Hopefully I'll come out of it more informed.

 

Jinty ;-)

Edited May 14, 2015 by Jintyman

[muddys-blues]

Hi Jinty, whooh new kit .................... you do understand what those four words mean at the bottom of the picture ? incase you are unsure ​  ..... do be sucking on them metal bits whilst you are looking at the instructions 

 

Edited May 15, 2015 by muddys-blues

[Jintyman]

Hi Jinty, whooh new kit .................... you do understand what those four words mean at the bottom of the picture ? incase you are unsure ​  ..... do be sucking on them whilst you are looking at the instructions 

You're trying to bump me off eh?????

 

Great meet up and chat last night, the coffee's on me next time!!!

 

On first look, I'm impressed with JLTRT kits.

Just having a fettle with some axle boxes, W irons and leaf springs, whilst the resin parts dry after a good scrubbing with warm soapy water.

A bit of an anomaly with which wheels to use, but as early ones had spoke, later ones were 3-hole disc, but a few in the 50's/60's were fitted with 3'1" Maunsell Disc wheels, so that's the one I've gone for.

 

Jinty ;-)

[Kev_Lewis]

The JLTRT Fruit D is a great kit, I've built two of them.

 

Just a word of warning. The kit actually produces the later BR version with electric lighting, there's not provision in the kit for the earlier GWR gas lit type. This caused much debate on my workbench thread with regards to numbering.

[Welsh Yorkie]

Hi Jintyman,

 

A few points, some already mentioned: The EE3 siteings were demolition trains, I don't think they ever did the Merthyr-Brecon freights. 08s and Teddy Bears only got as far as Vaynor quarry on ballast workings. No 56xx, 84xxx or 82xxx at Talyllyn to my knowledge, though possibly 84xxx via Hereford line? No DMUs north of Merthyr to Brecon, though some did Dowlais-Cardiff workings on Saturdays but not via the B& M line. Sorry to put a damper on your range of locos(!), but you still have loads of options -- and you can always ignore the reality!

 

All the best with it.

[Andrew Young]

There was a good article in the Welsh Railways Research Circle 'Archive' magazine a few years ago on Talyllyn Junction. A quick internet search found it to be Volume 4, No 1. http://www.wrrc.org.uk/journal_4.php

 

If you don't have a copy then it's worth getting one as iirc there were diagrams and plenty of photos in there.

 

William Smith's book on the Herford, Hay & Brecon Railway published by the Kidderminster Railway Museum is also a must have for modelling the line.

 

HTH

Andrew

Edited May 15, 2015 by Andrew Young

[Jintyman]

The JLTRT Fruit D is a great kit, I've built two of them.

 

Just a word of warning. The kit actually produces the later BR version with electric lighting, there's not provision in the kit for the earlier GWR gas lit type. This caused much debate on my workbench thread with regards to numbering.

Hi Kev,

Thanks for the info, I'll look out for the numbering.

 

Hi Jintyman,

 

A few points, some already mentioned: The EE3 siteings were demolition trains, I don't think they ever did the Merthyr-Brecon freights. 08s and Teddy Bears only got as far as Vaynor quarry on ballast workings. No 56xx, 84xxx or 82xxx at Talyllyn to my knowledge, though possibly 84xxx via Hereford line? No DMUs north of Merthyr to Brecon, though some did Dowlais-Cardiff workings on Saturdays but not via the B& M line. Sorry to put a damper on your range of locos(!), but you still have loads of options -- and you can always ignore the reality!

 

All the best with it.

Hi there,

 

Thanks for your imput, I think, although I'll be trying to keep fairly accurate rosters, I will have the odd encroachment of 'alternative stock', after all I'm imagining the line remaining open till the end of steam, at least.

 

There was a good article in the Welsh Railways Research Circle 'Archive' magazine a few years ago on Talyllyn Junction. A quick internet search found it to be Volume 4, No 1. http://www.wrrc.org.uk/journal_4.php

 

If you don't have a copy then it's worth getting one as iirc there were diagrams and plenty of photos in there.

 

William Smith's book on the Herford, Hay & Brecon Railway published by the Kidderminster Railway Museum is also a must have for modelling the line.

 

HTH

Andrew

Hi Andrew,

 

Great bit of information there. I've found it difficult obtaining information, photos, etc of TJ, every little helpd, an e-mail sent to the WRRC will hopefully result in another feast of info.

 

Thanks all

 

Jinty ;-)

[Andrew Young]

Have dug out my copy of that issue of Archive, although no longer a member, I've kept some of their magazines I got) and there's several pages including diagrams for all three Talyllyn boxes in there.

 

It would also be worth looking to see what Middleton Press & Oakwood Press books cover that area. I have the Mid Wales Railway one from Oakwood which is delightful, but reckon there must be others out there.

 

From looking at the Smith H, H & B book this morning, to be prototypical reckon that the diet of locos up to the end of steam would be Ivatt and Standard 2MT Moguls, 57xx panniers and Collett Goods locos, so not the greatest mixture!

 

Cheers,

Andrew

[81A Oldoak]

ex-LMS locos also passed through en-route from Three Ccocks Junction to Brecon. Here is a 3F at Three Cocks:  https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=brecon+railway+station&biw=1920&bih=943&tbm=isch&imgil=PSdd_Odi9ZhzIM%253A%253BJbYgFktXJOprHM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fen.wikipedia.org%25252Fwiki%25252FBrecon_and_Merthyr_Tydfil_Junction_Railway&source=iu&pf=m&fir=PSdd_Odi9ZhzIM%253A%252CJbYgFktXJOprHM%252C_&usg=__a_LGk7vbmE--GsN9JGGNT26SWeg%3D&ved=0CCoQyjc&ei=nL1VVbfmJtKZ7gbm2YCgAw#imgrc=6wvJCKbhz6lKSM%253A%3BnlI55LSd_w7tJM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fs0.geograph.org.uk%252Fgeophotos%252F02%252F17%252F51%252F2175115_680421a1.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.geograph.org.uk%252Fphoto%252F2175115%3B640%3B385

 

Here is a shot of Brecon with lookslike an ex-L&Y Class 27 0-6-0 and a LMS 4F in the background. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=brecon+railway+station&biw=1920&bih=943&tbm=isch&imgil=PSdd_Odi9ZhzIM%253A%253BJbYgFktXJOprHM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fen.wikipedia.org%25252Fwiki%25252FBrecon_and_Merthyr_Tydfil_Junction_Railway&source=iu&pf=m&fir=PSdd_Odi9ZhzIM%253A%252CJbYgFktXJOprHM%252C_&usg=__a_LGk7vbmE--GsN9JGGNT26SWeg%3D&ved=0CCoQyjc&ei=nL1VVbfmJtKZ7gbm2YCgAw#imgrc=PSdd_Odi9ZhzIM%253A%3BJbYgFktXJOprHM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fupload.wikimedia.org%252Fwikipedia%252Fcommons%252F2%252F23%252FBrecon_2_railway_station_1891736_f6a793a8.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fen.wikipedia.org%252Fwiki%252FBrecon_and_Merthyr_Tydfil_Junction_Railway%3B640%3B368

[Jintyman]

Thanks Oldoak,

It's a L&Y class 27 not 28 as I mentioned above.

1957 saw a Jinty (very apt!!!) at 3 cocks with a southbound mixed goods, I've got the photo somewhere.

 

Jinty ;-)

[The Stationmaster]

Thanks Oldoak,

It's a L&Y class 27 not 28 as I mentioned above.

1957 saw a Jinty (very apt!!!) at 3 cocks with a southbound mixed goods, I've got the photo somewhere.

 

Jinty ;-)

Jinties had to go that way as it was the only Midland Railway route to Swansea.

[Andrew Young]

The Ivatt 2MT's and occasional Standard 2MT replaced the ex L&Y locos on the Hereford services and the Dean Goods locos on the Mid Wales services sometime in the 50s.

 

Depends on your period, 50s or 60s or whether you choose the transition between the two. Or even invoke Rule 1!

 

Cheers,

Andrew

[Jintyman]

Jinties had to go that way as it was the only Midland Railway route to Swansea.

Yes and as I have a built one that's non motorised, and one still in the box unbuilt, I will probably have at least these 2 running!!!

 

 

The Ivatt 2MT's and occasional Standard 2MT replaced the ex L&Y locos on the Hereford services and the Dean Goods locos on the Mid Wales services sometime in the 50s.

 

Depends on your period, 50s or 60s or whether you choose the transition between the two. Or even invoke Rule 1!

 

Cheers,

Andrew

Thank you for your info Andrew, I've managed to acquire a copy of the publication from WRRC this afternoon. Another Andrew there was extremely helpful.

I think I can have quite a variety by just stretching things a little bit, and even more by utilising 'Rule 1'.

 

Western reigon:

 

57xx 0-6-0PT

2251 0-6-0 & tender

63xx 2-6-0 & tender

 

Midland reigon:

 

3F Jinty 0-6-0t

3F Class 27 0-6-0 & tender

2MT Ivatt class 2-6-0 & tender

4F 0-6-0 & tender

 

And the Rule 1 locos:

 

84xxx 2-6-2t

56xx 0-6-2t

Type 2 (Class 25)

Type 3 (Class 37)

 

Even without the Rule 1 locos, I think there is quite a nice variety and mix of both Midland and Western stock.

My next challenge is to try and recognise the coach diagrams shown in that video, as I'm sure there is Collett non corridor stock, and there looks to be some Stanier III stock, but I need to get the diagrams.

 

Thanks again for all the assistance and information

 

Jinty ;-)

[Jintyman]

I spent a little bit of time last night, and again this early evening, fettling the W-irons and axleboxes, and not too much longer, having added the springs, the Fruit D can sit on its wheels.

I usually have a piece of glass that's attached to a piece of MDF, but I dropped it on the garage floor this afternoon, so I need another one now. I checked the squareness on my piece of glass that's fixed on my workbench in the garage, and it sits nice and true.

I'm only working in the house because the garage is upside down at the moment, full of timber for the insulation job.

 

Anyway, here are a couple of pictures.

 

 

 

So far this kit has done nothing but impress me. The castings are a good quality, especially the whitemetal ones as I've seen some very poor castings before now, but these are crisp and very little flash on them too.

 

I half expected top have some sort of bow in the chassis as well, as I've never seen a resin kit without some sort of bow in it, but no, this one is straight and true, and the chassis fits perfectly inside the body casting, which is again, spot on.

 

I'm now going to start on the brake linkages, etc. A bit of cleaning up, and then trial fitting.

 

Jinty ;-)

[daifly]

You might not be aware that there was/is an issue with the JLTRT Fruit van (and others) buffer spacing. You might want to check buffer centres before going further.

Dave

[daifly]

and the reference:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/51710-kevs-7mm-workbench-a-couple-of-recent-builds/?p=1264262

Dave

[muddys-blues]

I spent a little bit of time last night, and again this early evening, fettling the W-irons and axleboxes, and not too much longer, having added the springs, the Fruit D can sit on its wheels.

I usually have a piece of glass that's attached to a piece of MDF, but I dropped it on the garage floor this afternoon, so I need another one now. I checked the squareness on my piece of glass that's fixed on my workbench in the garage, and it sits nice and true.

I'm only working in the house because the garage is upside down at the moment, full of timber for the insulation job.

 

Anyway, here are a couple of pictures.

 

Tal 07.jpg

 

Tal 08.jpg

 

So far this kit has done nothing but impress me. The castings are a good quality, especially the whitemetal ones as I've seen some very poor castings before now, but these are crisp and very little flash on them too.

 

I half expected top have some sort of bow in the chassis as well, as I've never seen a resin kit without some sort of bow in it, but no, this one is straight and true, and the chassis fits perfectly inside the body casting, which is again, spot on.

 

I'm now going to start on the brake linkages, etc. A bit of cleaning up, and then trial fitting.

 

Jinty ;-)

 

Bold wording ...... oooh I bet that was met with some colourful phrases ??? 

[Simond]

I remember something about that. They were too close together?

 

Do please advise what you find

 

Best

Simon

[steve fay]

I bought my dad one, lovely kits. I need one my self for my parcels train.

[Jintyman]

Well yes the buffers are too close together. I will endeavour to open out the holes tomorrow, after reading the thread listed above, it has given me some ideas.

I've also noticed a mistake I've made when I did the brake gear this evening!!! I've placed the linkage upside down, when it should've been the other way up, closer to the chassis.

 

One thing I have done is substituted 1mm brass rod instead of the plastic rod supplied. I feel it will make it more substantial.

Unlike the other thread, I haven't added the rod across from one W-iron to the other to hold the wheels and axles on, I've left the wheels removable for painting purposes.

 

Here is the brake linkages from underneath

 

 

And on its wheels with the body on

 

 

As mentioned, I will tackle the buffers tomorrow, and once they're out of the way, I'll cary on with the solebar detail and steps.

 

Jinty ;-)

[Donw]

Worth being a WRRC member if you are modelling any welsh location odd bits of info can turn up now and then.

Don

[Jintyman]

Worth being a WRRC member if you are modelling any welsh location odd bits of info can turn up now and then.

Don

Yes thank you, it's something I discussed with Andy from WRRC this afternoon, and it's exactly what I'll be doing

 

Jinty ;-)