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Clerestory Coaches, Knowledge needed! - And other GWR ponderings.


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However you measure the angles, provided you do it the same for both cup and point, the point has to be sharper than (ie fewer degrees) than the cup for a “pin-point” bearing to work.

 

The whole point (sorry) of any “wheel & axle” with a plain bearing is that the radius of the effective bearing is as small a fraction as possible of the radius of the wheel, as this minimises the effects of the bearing friction.

 

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Simon

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However you measure the angles, provided you do it the same for both cup and point, the point has to be sharper than (ie fewer degrees) than the cup for a “pin-point” bearing to work.

 

The whole point (sorry) of any “wheel & axle” with a plain bearing is that the radius of the effective bearing is as small a fraction as possible of the radius of the wheel, as this minimises the effects of the bearing friction.

 

Best

Simon

 

Don't think so. If the angle is measured from a normal to the axle centreline, then to get a sharper axle point the angle needs to be greater (more degrees) than the angle of the bearing cone.

 

"Sharper" can be misleading. The point itself shouldn't be sharp i.e. it should be a tad blunt. The bearing surface of the axle is then a very small circle, rather than a sharp point.

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I’m not sure what you mean by measuring from a normal to the centreline of the axle, as that would be a plane. I can’t see any advantage in measuring in such a way. I think most designers would specify either the included angle, or the angle from the cone to the centreline, ie half the included angle, ie the angle by which you would set over the top slide, if using a lathe to make your own axles.

 

In simple terms, the point has to go to the end of the cup. If the point is less pointed than the cup is, it will not reach, as the full diameter of the axle will touch the cup first. That will be less free running than if the point touches first.

 

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Simon

Edited by Simond
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  • 4 weeks later...

I'd try and find a K's kit on eBay. Most are white metal, but there was a plastic version available for a while. The roof profile is much the same as the Ratio one. AFAIK the roof profile only changes with different body widths.

 

I've modified one to an arc roof O4 for variety.

 

Standard P4 and EM axles* are 26mm over pinpoints with a 60° angle on the pin-point and 2mm diameter. This mates with 55° top hat bearings designed to fit axleguards at 24mm spacing. (I believe there are drawings on the EMGS website). Hormby (metal wheel) axles used to be 26mm too, but now appear to have adopted the NMRA specification of 25.4mm/1". Why? :(

 

* Should be used for 00 too. Note Romford/Markits axles are 26mm, but their bearings are non-standard - details on their website.

 

EDIT

 

Continental axles are different again, shorter still, but they are intended for H0. Details on the MOROP site (in French and German - they are looking for someone to translate into English.)

Having had some trouble getting hold of the Ks kit I decided to 3D print my own. These too are available from Shapeways as a 3 part kit (excluding buffers and wheels) with two different body types.

 

GWR Low Roof 6 wheel Siphon

 

GWR Diag O4 Low Roof 6 Door 6 wheel Siphon

 
(please note I had to turn the flanges off the centre wheels).
 
If anyone is tempted by one of these I would recommend using Markits turned brass coach buffers rather than my own as mine are a bit fragile.
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Having had some trouble getting hold of the Ks kit I decided to 3D print my own. These too are available from Shapeways as a 3 part kit (excluding buffers and wheels) with two different body types.

 

 

Diagram O2 https://www.shapeways.com/shops/stafford_road_model_works?section=00+GWR+Dia+O2+6+Wheeled+Siphon&s=0

 

 

Diagram O4 https://www.shapeways.com/shops/stafford_road_model_works?section=00+GWR+Dia+O4+6+Wheeled+Siphon&s=0

 

(please note I had to turn the flanges off the centre wheels).

 

If anyone is tempted by one of these I would recommend using Markits turned brass coach buffers rather than my own as mine are a bit fragile.

Those look nice - I already have a K’s one purchased from eBay a few years ago from ‘Hayfield’ of this parish (if my memory is correct) but I think I’ll be saving up some pennies for a few of yours!
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  • 3 weeks later...

Is that correct?

If so the pin point won't do anything as the axle cannot reach right into the bearing.

The bearing surely must have a greater angle than the axle.

 

Cheers

 

 

Hi Keith,

 

It looks like I've got it the wrong way round! The pin point angle is not unduly critical anyway. I always turn them by eye. The problem I find is getting the axle length right as it's easy to take too much off.

 

I'll see if I can unearth the drawings. They're stashed away somewhere.  :scratchhead:

I did find this  http://www.clag.org.uk/bearing-interface.html

 

David

Edited by Il Grifone
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  • 3 months later...

As a bit of an experiment and by way of using up some surplus Airfix siphon bogies I have developed a GWR Siphon J

GWR Siphon J

 
I hope to develop a couple of passenger coaches or a Milk brake but haven't decided which yet. However, I will need to test the water post Brexit as I am worried that import duties will make the process beyond my price range
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  • 5 months later...
On 16/01/2019 at 00:22, 81E said:

As a bit of an experiment and by way of using up some surplus Airfix siphon bogies I have developed a GWR Siphon J

GWR Siphon J

 
I hope to develop a couple of passenger coaches or a Milk brake but haven't decided which yet. However, I will need to test the water post Brexit as I am worried that import duties will make the process beyond my price range

Any development on this?

Tim T

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You can produce a reasonable Siphon J by sanding down a Lima Siphon G body, clad in planked plasticard, ad your home made fittings. Replace bogies and buffers. This one must be thirty years old now and needs a bit of a makeover.

Mike Wiltshire

948942342_SiphonJconversionLR.jpg.636170e5f5fbe4f3b276ac43e022dca2.jpg

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  • 1 month later...
2 hours ago, GWR8700 said:

Anyone know if Slater's are intending to re-introduce their GWR coaches like they have done with their Midland wagons?

There was mention of this on this site at the start of the year, well in relation to the toplights, but I haven't seen any more news since then

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Apparently, one thing that held up the re-issue of the Midland wagon kits was that David White didn't have any copies of the instructions. So if you have instructions for the carriage kits, it might be worth letting him know? But another part of the story seems to be, it'll happen when it happens, given other commitments. 

 

No inside knowledge myself, this is just what I've gleaned from the comments of others.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 01/08/2019 at 09:04, Compound2632 said:

Apparently, one thing that held up the re-issue of the Midland wagon kits was that David White didn't have any copies of the instructions. So if you have instructions for the carriage kits, it might be worth letting him know? But another part of the story seems to be, it'll happen when it happens, given other commitments. 

 

No inside knowledge myself, this is just what I've gleaned from the comments of others.

I provided him with a full set of toplights and clerestory instructions many months ago. So that excuse isnt valid.

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