BG John Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 It looks like the Broad Gauge Society will be coming to my aid in due course ! Of course it would be even better if you actually start modelling the broad gauge! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I just knew that someone was going to say that !!!! That said, I've often wondered how many people do. It's always interesting to see Broad gauge modelled. Tony 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeOxon Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Next! the Hornby 4 wheeled coach. I already know it's not based on anything 'real', but how close is it to something GWR from 1900? I know this is going back a bit but I've just noticed a page about the Culm Valley line on John Speller's website. There are two photos of 3-compartment GWR 4-wheelers on this page: http://spellerweb.net/rhindex/UKRH/GreatWestern/Narrowgauge/Culm.html Perhaps, the Hornby coaches could stand in for these? Mike 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted May 22, 2015 Author Share Posted May 22, 2015 Nice spot. I think the most obvious problem with the Hornby coach is the roof profile is wrong, not impossible to overcome. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I know this is going back a bit but I've just noticed a page about the Culm Valley line on John Speller's website. There are two photos of 3-compartment GWR 4-wheelers on this page: http://spellerweb.net/rhindex/UKRH/GreatWestern/Narrowgauge/Culm.html Perhaps, the Hornby coaches could stand in for these? Mike No. They're nothing like them. Flat sides and a totally different style of windows and panelling. See my comment earlier about the only thing they have in common is the number of wheels, and my link to an LNWR coach (as I couldn't find a GWR photo online)! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Here are a few links that show examples of the older short 4 wheel GWR coaches. They seem to be a bit elusive online, and it's a period I'm rusty on: One at Hemyock that has some similarities, but with flat sides and a different roof profile: http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/h/hemyock/index3.shtml A clearer version of the one linked to earlier, that I think helps to show how different they were: http://hemyock.org/mediagallery/media.php?f=0&sort=0&s=2007012517101376 Another example hiding behind Hemyock station building:http://hemyock.org/mediagallery/media.php?f=0&sort=0&s=20080520150357495 And one of Mikkel's models that is what I've been looking for, but couldn't find a real example of: https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-KAAwVirL-Fw/T0lQGvSE38I/AAAAAAAAA6g/IZ8y6fs8RvM/s600/blogentry-738-018315500%2525201286651569_thumb.jpg From here: http://farthinglayouts.blogspot.co.uk/2010/10/supposed-to-be-cleaning-basement-today.html Some of these may be a shorter wheelbase that the Hornby thing, but I think are more typical of anything that would have existed with that short a wheelbase. So I suppose you could scratchbuild new sides for it, and narrow the ends to removes the tumblehome! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeOxon Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 No. They're nothing like them. Flat sides and a totally different style of windows and panelling. See my comment earlier about the only thing they have in common is the number of wheels, and my link to an LNWR coach (as I couldn't find a GWR photo online)! Well - at least we now have 3 compartments and 4 wheels Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 I have seen the K's plastic kit 'Mataro' coaches used as period GWR coaches to good effect. http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/keyser-ks-spanish-mataro-coach-kits-161126763 Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted May 26, 2015 Author Share Posted May 26, 2015 Moving on from dubious 4 wheeled coaches, but sticking with the basic trainset theme, I bought an engine off the secondhand shelf earlier. Can't complain, looking at the wheels it's never been used. Although judging by Triang/Hornby's GWR carriage efforts it won't suprise me if there's major detail inaccuracies 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Moving on from dubious 4 wheeled coaches, but sticking with the basic trainset theme, I bought an engine off the secondhand shelf earlier. Can't complain, looking at the wheels it's never been used. Although judging by Triang/Hornby's GWR carriage efforts it won't suprise me if there's major detail inaccuracies Here's a little project to inspire you to improve it! http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/64814-backdating-the-Hornby-pannier/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Moving on from dubious 4 wheeled coaches, but sticking with the basic trainset theme, I bought an engine off the secondhand shelf earlier. Can't complain, looking at the wheels it's never been used. Although judging by Triang/Hornby's GWR carriage efforts it won't suprise me if there's major detail inaccuracies 20150526_171348.jpg It's not a bad model (I have one!). The main problem is the wheelbase which should be 29mm + 33mm (7' 3" + 8' 3"), but it uses Hornby's standard chassis, which is supposedly Midland/LMS 8' 0" + 8 6" *, but is wrong even for that at 31mm + 33mm. It also results in the wrong number of spokes (15 rather than 16). I'm thinking of altering mine to represent a double framed locomotive. There is a class with a wheelbase nearer Hornby's. They had 5' 2" wheels, but, being hidden behind the frames, I shall ignore this and leave them as they are. (I've fitted 18mm Romfords, which for once have the right number of spokes.) * It dates back to Tri-ang days (1954). The chimney and dome have a strange reverse taper (moulding short cuts), but this is quite straightforward to correct. New buffers wouldn't hurt either - Dean/Churchward tapered type, though it's not impossible some were replaced with the Collett parallel type in later years. I'm ignoring Hornby's normal excessive buffer height...... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Mikkel Posted May 26, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 26, 2015 I'm thinking of altering mine to represent a double framed locomotive. There is a class with a wheelbase nearer Hornby's. They had 5' 2" wheels, but, being hidden behind the frames, I shall ignore this and leave them as they are. (I've fitted 18mm Romfords, which for once have the right number of spokes.) That sounds like an interesting conversion, I like your thinking. It would be interesting to see pictures of progress when you get to that point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 That sounds like an interesting conversion, I like your thinking. It would be interesting to see pictures of progress when you get to that point. Thanks! I'll try and remember to post something, but she's rather far down the 'to do' list. (Holding of breath is not advised.......) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Walters Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 I've always found these pages on gwr.org great for checking out liveries of GWR Loco's and rolling stock http://www.gwr.org.uk/liveriescoach1912.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted May 26, 2015 Author Share Posted May 26, 2015 Cheers guys. I highly suspect that like the Triang coaches this engine will remain 'slightly wrong'. Although I will probably add a driver and fireman. I like to create myself 'wish lists' when collecting certain things, a second of these paniers (with a different number) is on there, along with an old 4-4-0 county, a dean single, and pushing to the modern and expensive a Bachmann City of Truro. From my brief research they all fall into the right era......more than 1 County may prove an option there's also the Dean Goods by Hornby, but I'd really have to stumble over 1 at the correct price for that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 They are all more or less correct from about 1912, with the exception of the Dean single. Lord of the Isles herself was withdrawn in 1908 and they had all gone by 1915. Some were rebuilt in their later days with Churchward boilers (to the detriment of their appearance, IMHO). The Counties and Cities are portrayed as superheated with top feed and considerable work is required to backdate them. The 43xx* and 28xx also belong to this era, or even a Saint. All benefit from the addition of engraved name and number plates - The transfers fail to convey the correct appearance, (again IMHO). *There are detail differences to check here. The first built had shorter cabs for example. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted June 14, 2015 Author Share Posted June 14, 2015 Once again, thanks for all the GWR advice guys. It is all being processed! I have a layout plan which will potentially cover 3 different environment requirements, 1 of which will be GWR so the buildings will be recoloured as appropriate, I'm just hanging slack on it until after the first modular meet to see whether to incorporate that standard into the build. Sadly, thanks to a post in a different area of RMWeb, I'm back to thinking of Hornby 4 wheelers again! I'm sure I used to have some in different liveries, I'll have to have a look, i know my aim here was to keep things fairly 'trainset' but debating chopping roofs down and performing other surgeries to them..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I've got no idea what make the ones I have are. I bought them many years ago, and they may well not be available any more. In this article on gwr.org.uk, Mikkel suggests using the bogies off the modern Hornby version. http://gwr.org.uk/proc22.html I ended up taking Mikkel's advice and used the newer Hornby bogies on this refurb. With a razor saw I also managed to remove the truss rodding from the newer chassis and apply it to the old coach. It improves it no end. If I can source some complete new Clerestory chassis I'll do a few more. Fat chance........ The six-wheeler I posted on earlier is moving along also, after the first chassis was binned: the coach sat maybe 4mm too high and towered over everything else. I scratched up a new chassis, retaining the original Hornby axle-units, and the result is far more acceptable - to me, anyway !. Tony 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 (edited) Satan' Goldfish - My twopenneth would be: The Hornby 4-wheeler. I have always felt this to be characterful little item, and have long had in the back of my mind to use it as a freelance coach. Something stopped me. Not so much the chassis, which is crude and makes the coach sit too high. That could be dealt with. Recently I realised what it was; the way the panelling and beading is represented is all wrong. Take, for instance, the waist panels. These are defined by thin raised bands. In fact, they should be 'sunk' between beading. Hard to described, but compare the coach to any other panelled vehicle, e.g. the Triang Clerestory, and you will see what I mean. I have thought of using filler, but this is going to cause issues with the doors. The Triang clerestories are nice bodies. There is a way to represent a Van Third diagram, if I recall, by staggering the guard's look out. I think the coach body comes out at 6" narrower than the nearest matching prototype, but with OO track, that might be a good thing! Drawings are in volume 1 of Russell, if you have access to that, and a helpful overview is on the gwr.org site by Rus Eliott (apologies if that has been mentioned). The non-brake Triang coach is less useful; if you compare the compartment sizes/panel widths to drawing in Russell, they correspond to GWR second class compartments. Better, then, to cut and shut the Brake coach into an All Third, because the compartments are narrower and OK for Third Class. You have spare brake ends that you can cut and shut into a van! Mikkel from here did guides on gwr.org for both a Third and a PBV. The Hornby corridor clerestories are a wasted opportunity. However good the transfer printing gets, the lack of moulded beading will always let them down. Bettabitz replacement brass sides were available via 247 Developments, but I guess no longer, and by repute it's an awful faff cutting out and replacing the coach sides. Now, I wonder, with the advent of Silhouette cutters, might it not be easier to cut out beading and apply it to the coach sides? If I had one, I'd have a go. Finally, if you are going pre-1908, why not make it pre-1906, so you can enjoy those Indian red outside frames? Edited June 16, 2015 by Edwardian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted June 16, 2015 Author Share Posted June 16, 2015 Thanks for the info there, interesting note on the panelling on the 4 wheelers, that is a bit of a major headache...... Indian red outside frames? I don't know what they are but I'm intrigued..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 The Hornby corridor clerestories are a wasted opportunity. ........ Now, I wonder, with the advent of Silhouette cutters, might it not be easier to cut out beading and apply it to the coach sides? If I had one, I'd have a go. Has anyone tried it? I've got two Hornby ones, and I'm wonder whether to buy Silhouette some time, but I need to practice drawing stuff on the computer first! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Indian red outside frames? I don't know what they are but I'm intrigued..... On locos. Much more interesting than boring black, which is why my new EM layout will be set in about 1905! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted June 16, 2015 Author Share Posted June 16, 2015 Sounds colourful, like the thinking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 (edited) Satan's Goldfish, again, I believe that gwr.org is your friend here as it has accessible and concise livery guides. In essence, with the usual variations etc, from about 1894 to 1906, all GW locos had fully lined liveries with frames and spashers in Indian Red. As there were a lot of (a) deep or outside framed locos, and ( big wheels, this was quite a prominent part of the livery! A picture is worth a Thousand words: Edited June 16, 2015 by Edwardian 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted June 16, 2015 Author Share Posted June 16, 2015 You're right, and I keep forgetting that facility is there so I apologise! It's different to what I've just imagined in my head, I thought the loco would be green! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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