cromptonnut Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Hi all I'm wondering what people have in mind for control bus patch panels as far as positioning goes. Obviously having one on each side of each module that requires one is an expensive prospect, but for modules that will have a fixed orientation in a modular setup (such as a twin to single junction) I was wondering what people would do. Would you permanently attach one to one side and hope that at least 50% of the time it'll be the right side, or use something such as drawing pins or small bolts to attach it loosely to the bottom of the framework depending which side you wanted to put the patch panel on? I'm using Lenz ones for my boards simply as that's the DCC system I use at home, so I understand that if there's another system in use the whole issue may be irrelevant anyway - but would appreciate your thoughts. Many thanks 'Nut Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanRogers Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Given the height and width of the boards, and the length of cables attached to throttles, why not mount it dead-centre of the board underneath? Alternatively, mount the unit on a piece of 3mm or 6mm ply, then Velcro it to the appropriate place on the board, on the inside of the frame. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eke Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Hello! I have followed your way to a brittish modular standard with great interest sinse last year here at RMweb. I am normaly responsible for the dcc-system and throttlebus at some of our modular meetings here in sweden and perhaps have something that may interest you! Here in sweden we have had some problems with deciding wich throttlebus to use at our meetings due to the fact that we have a group of Fremo who uses Loconet and a second large group that build modules with a swedish modular standard called MMM (MälarModulMöte) who normaly uses a Lenz system with Xpressnet as throttlebus. The Fremo and MMM-standard are quite compatible with each other as the height over floor and the dcc-bus wiring are the same and we mostly have both standards mixed at our meetings. When the Roco Z21 came a couple of years ago as the first central unit that could handle both Loconet and Xpressnet i started thinking of a ”multibus” with standard RJ45 patchcable that could carry three throttlebuses and a common stabilized 12 volt feed for the throttles of all three throttlebuses! After a couple of years of devolepment it have came out with this pin-configuration for the used patchcables. 1 Loconet ground 2 Loconet 3 0 volt 4 B Xpressnet 1 5 A Xpressnet 1 6 12 volt 500 mA (stabilized) 7 B Xpressnet 2 8 A Xpressnet 2 All throttle exchange cables and adaptors are colour coded as they have different pinconfigurations. EkeBus_handtagssladdar.pdf Yellow for Loconet Red for Xpressnet 1 (Roco, normaly with automatic xpressnet adress search activated) Blue for Xpressnet 2 (Lenz with fixed xpressnet adresses) First we used all Roco throttles at the Xpressnet 1, and a lenz system connected to the snifferbus of the Z21 as the Xpressnet 2 Later a Z21 update made it possible to configurate the R-bus at the Z21 as an extra Xpressnet and we now use that instead of the Lenz unit at the snifferbus and gain two way communication at the Xpressnet 2 to. The loconet, and both Xpressnet speaks perfektly to each other thru the Z21 and as a user you newer notice which of the systems you use as all patch panels are electricaly identical and can be used by any system! I will attach some pictures and a electrical wiring drawing for the three types of exchange cables for the throttles! We have now used the system sinse Mars 2014 at most of the big modular meetings in 2R H0-scale here in sweden The 3R guys (Märklin) still use only Loconet, I have prodused allmost 200 exchange cables and adaptors for the throttles of the members, and a friend had prodused a lot of patch panels for clamping to the modules! As the Loconet and Xpressnet have different needs in network topologi we have devoloped a topologi that fits both systems and are easy to set up! The Xpressnets are as linear as possible and with just one connection to the patchcable net, the Loconet are sectionated in 30 meter sections with a loconet and 12 volt feed in the middle of each section. The sections are created by cutting and insulate the pins 1, 2, 3 and 6 at a standard patchcable every 30 meters where just Xpressnet 1 and 2 can pass thru. I hope this will interest you as i understand some of you use different systems that not is compatible (until now) and i can help you with furhter information if you find it interesting. And if some of you are visiting sweden when we have a modular meeting you are welcome to visit us, to look at the system or just having a beer and having a nice time and drive some trains. Here is a link to our swedish modular forum http://www.modulsyd.se/forum/ And a link for an oncoming homepage for the throttlebus http://ekebus.se/ With friendly modular greetings from sweden! ”Eke” Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 Very interesting, thankyou. The "incompatibility" of varying systems over what is meant to be a standard is one thing I don't understand about DCC, but your system seems to go a long way towards sorting some of those issues. I'll keep a close eye on this and see how it works out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I know you are referring to the DCC control patch panels with this topic but the question of location also applies to the DCC power bus. After some thought (and I guess a slight deviation from the standard) I decided on the one side approach. I do not require a DCC control panel as there is nothing to control o my module. But my thinking with the power bus would also apply. At the moment there is a patch panel (power) at each end of the module with sockets that will accommodate banana plugs (the spec) they are both on the fascia same side. The connecting leads will be long enough (plug at either end) to reach the next module on either side. I see no reason to place a control patch on every board or even more than one on ny board unless the track operation is particularly complex and there is going to be a lot of locos in operation (operators). Anyway incorporating all the various flavours of DCC control is not possible or even wise. (let alone the expense) unless we expect these modules to be active at a meet on an extremely regular basis, most are likely to end up at home or in store. I think a more flexible system should be designed and one of the worst things about DCC and no standard in the inductry is having a one plug used by all or suitable plug and play adaptors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRC Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 This is interesting and one to come back to if wifi doesnt work. I think we need to persevere in the wifi space because if we can get it to work we wont need any throttle infrastuctuure and that has to be easier for everyone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 I have tested - again - my JMRI/WiThrottle configuration and it all seems to be functioning properly. All I have to do is remember to connect my phone to the correct wifi instead of my home wifi... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eke Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Hello again! A little advice is not to trust the wifi throttles to much, they are a great complement to the traditionally throttlebus at smaler meetings but in big public meetings they are often disturbed by a great numbers of mobile phones and strong senders for these phones, i also estimate that about 80% of our users prefere a throttle with a knob to handle their trains! So i advice you that to use the phones as a nice complement when the condotions are good but dont trust them to much, you will need a throttlebus as a backbone in your system! This is our experienses after aproximatly ten years of modular railway meetings, both public and big private meetings. Friendly greeatings from sweden Eke Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 Hi Eke, this is our first modular meeting. We're holding the meeting in a hall with no visitors, so there won't be the problem of clash or phones - just our layout. But you are right that there is a risk with wifi in large halls at public exhibitions. I have a few patch panels plus several large (10m and 15m) cables for the 'traditional' control as well; I have two throttles and I know of at least two others that are coming along. You can read more about our meeting from the link in my signature below, I think our track plan is on page 8. 'Nut Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 You need the throttle patch panel on your module so that someone can drive the train when it gets to your module without being too far away from it. You cannot rely on drivers being able to use a socket on an adjacent module for two main reasons:- 1. They might be thinking the same as you and not provide a patch panel. 2. Someone might need to be plugged in to the adjacent module to drive a train there. The Lenz panel or NCE panel will support all the main control systems likely to be encountered (Lenz and other ExpressNet of course, NCE and Digitrax) so would be a good choice and is easy to connect to adjacent modules, or you can easily make your own by wiring three RJ12 6-way sockets in parallel and mounting them somewhere - the sockets (and a 6-way non crossover RJ12 cable) are not expensive if you have the ability to solder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eke Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Hi! First. i hope my english grammar isn't to bad it has been a lot of years sinse school! About throttle panels and lenght of cables, our experienses is that 3 meters is an accurate cable lenght for cables inbetwen the panels, practicaly it will be about 2,6-2,8 meters beteen the panels! And it's also good if the panels have more than one socket to connect to, 2 sockets for the panels on the line and 4 sockets for the panels on the stations seems to be what is needed in reality! I know some Fremogroups that use four meter cables but that is sometimes to long betwen the panels when you are many drivers! Eke Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eke Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Hi again! Forgott! The best is not to have the throttle panels permanently mounted on the modules, it's better to have panels that you can clamp where they will be needed most! And perhapps there will be different systems on the meetings and the panels is not the right kind! But bigger stations could be nice to have permanently mounted panels as they allways have the same need of the placing of the panels from time to time! And it saves some time at set up! Eke Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 You need the throttle patch panel on your module so that someone can drive the train when it gets to your module without being too far away from it. You cannot rely on drivers being able to use a socket on an adjacent module for two main reasons:- 1. They might be thinking the same as you and not provide a patch panel. 2. Someone might need to be plugged in to the adjacent module to drive a train there. I have worked on the basic principle on my various boards that I am only thinking of patch panels on the boards where "something" is happening, ie trains stopping, junction boards, shunting etc. On the plain track boards I see no need for them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I guess it depends on how long the modules are. I have seen specs for some modular systems where a module should have a socket if it is more than 4' long. Looking at what is proposed for your meet there are probably not going to be any long runs of plain track to worry about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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