Highclere - 2mm Finescale

Re: Highclere

Postby Midmar Lad » Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:10 pm

Hi,

Very impressed with the signal box. Is that a 1950's Western Region style? And did or can you get plans for it?
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Re: Highclere

Postby pirouets » Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:11 pm

Hi there. I am just starting out in the wonderful world of plasticard. What did you use to stick the brick paper to the plasticard inside the signal box?

I look forward to the next installments as the station building develops.
Cheers
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Re: Highclere

Postby Captain Kernow » Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:38 pm

Just caught up with this thread, and as before, Missy, this layout just continues to exude 'quality'.... the signalbox is a real work of art, and a lamp inside will really help show off the excellent interior detail. I went to that much trouble myself (in 4mm with the box for Bleakhouse Road), scratchbuilding various items to boot, put a bulb in (plus a spare wired in :wink: ) and sealed the roof on with MekPak.... I hardly ever have the light turned on, but at least I know the detail is there!... So, if it pleases you to do the detail, that should be enough reason! :D
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Re: Highclere

Postby 50007 » Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:39 pm

The signal box certainly looks very impressive with even working levers! Wow!
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Re: Highclere

Postby -missy- » Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:24 pm

Hello :D

Thanks for the comments :D

Midmar Lad,

Thank you. I am not sure if this was a standard type of signal box outside the Didcot, Newbury, & Southampton Railway but I do know that on the line the design was used for several stations. They were a ARP box built for WWII. I am fortunate because there are quite a few drawings for the buildings in the book 'The Didcot Newbury and Southampton Railway' by Paul Karau, Mike Parsons, and Kevin Robertson published by Wild Swan which has made my life much easier!

Captain K.

Thank you again :D

Steve,

Believe it or not that signal box was the first building I have ever done in plasticard too! In my eyes its so much easier using it than wood or card as its so easy to glue and cut. I stick the paper to the platicard by holding the paper against it and simply soaking the paper in mek-pak (I use slaters). It sticks a treat!

50007,

Thank you although I think working levers is a little beyond me!

Missy :D
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Re: Highclere

Postby Fat Controller » Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:34 pm

-missy- wrote:Hello :D

Thanks for the comments :D

Midmar Lad,

Thank you. I am not sure if this was a standard type of signal box outside the Didcot, Newbury, & Southampton Railway but I do know that on the line the design was used for several stations. They were a ARP box built for WWII. I am fortunate because there are quite a few drawings for the buildings in the book 'The Didcot Newbury and Southampton Railway' by Paul Karau, Mike Parsons, and Kevin Robertson published by Wild Swan which has made my life much easier!

Captain K.

Thank you again :D

Steve,

Believe it or not that signal box was the first building I have ever done in plasticard too! In my eyes its so much easier using it than wood or card as its so easy to glue and cut. I stick the paper to the platicard by holding the paper against it and simply soaking the paper in mek-pak (I use slaters). It sticks a treat!

50007,

Thank you although I think working levers is a little beyond me!

Missy :D

The ARP boxes were not uncommon on the former GWR- another example was Castle Cary, which was built to replace a box that had been destroyed by enemy action. I believe there were others on the Wolverhampton- Shrewsbury line, and I'm fairly certain I've seen some in South Wales, though I can't remember where for the life of me. The ones on the D,N &S were presumably built for the 'beefing-up' of the line prior to D-Day, when loops were lengthened and motorised points installed. If only the line had been kept for the container traffic from So'ton...
There has been discussion of motive power on the line- am I correct in thinking that the Fawley- Bromford Bridge tanks originally ran this way, powered first by 9Fs, and then by pairs of BRCW Type 3s?
It's a lovely model- I hope I get to see it one day.
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Re: Highclere

Postby -missy- » Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:50 pm

Brian.

Thank you :D Its great this forum thingy as there is always someone with the correct answer :D

As far as 9F's and type 3's go I have several pictures of them with oil trains on the line so the answer is yes.

Missy :D
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Re: Highclere

Postby The Stationmaster » Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:01 am

Fat Controller wrote:
-missy- wrote:Hello :D

Thanks for the comments :D

Midmar Lad,

Thank you. I am not sure if this was a standard type of signal box outside the Didcot, Newbury, & Southampton Railway but I do know that on the line the design was used for several stations. They were a ARP box built for WWII. I am fortunate because there are quite a few drawings for the buildings in the book 'The Didcot Newbury and Southampton Railway' by Paul Karau, Mike Parsons, and Kevin Robertson published by Wild Swan which has made my life much easier!

Captain K.

Thank you again :D

Steve,

Believe it or not that signal box was the first building I have ever done in plasticard too! In my eyes its so much easier using it than wood or card as its so easy to glue and cut. I stick the paper to the platicard by holding the paper against it and simply soaking the paper in mek-pak (I use slaters). It sticks a treat!

50007,

Thank you although I think working levers is a little beyond me!

Missy :D

The ARP boxes were not uncommon on the former GWR- another example was Castle Cary, which was built to replace a box that had been destroyed by enemy action. I believe there were others on the Wolverhampton- Shrewsbury line, and I'm fairly certain I've seen some in South Wales, though I can't remember where for the life of me. The ones on the D,N &S were presumably built for the 'beefing-up' of the line prior to D-Day, when loops were lengthened and motorised points installed. If only the line had been kept for the container traffic from So'ton...
There has been discussion of motive power on the line- am I correct in thinking that the Fawley- Bromford Bridge tanks originally ran this way, powered first by 9Fs, and then by pairs of BRCW Type 3s?
It's a lovely model- I hope I get to see it one day.


Oh for the days of sitting on Churn range (when the sun was shining of course, it ws terrible in the wet) on 'outpost duty' watching the oil trains go by :lol:

[i]The so-called 'ARP' design was the GWR wartime utility design with a large element of structural strength (like a concrete roof :shock: ) but what has always amused me about the design is the locking room windows - which were bricked over on some earlier 'boxes as an air-raid precaution :oops:

As Brian says, those on the DN&S were built as part of inceasing line capacity (mainly loop lengthening) on the DN&S for the relief route to Southampton and they date from 1942/43.

The South Wales ones - with some improvements - were around Port Talbot and dated from quadrupling and other layout improvements in that area which I think might have been postwar although I'm far from sure :?: There was also a much improved variant on the design somewhere a bit further west which was probably much nearer to the final WR design of brick built 'boxes (of which there were very few) - might be Ferryside or thereabouts but again I'm not certain on that one. And there were also some of the wartime built ones in the Oxford area where, again, considerable layout expansion was carried out for wartime traffic.
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Re: Highclere

Postby Fat Controller » Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:05 pm

[

Oh for the days of sitting on Churn range (when the sun was shining of course, it ws terrible in the wet) on 'outpost duty' watching the oil trains go by :lol:

[i]The so-called 'ARP' design was the GWR wartime utility design with a large element of structural strength (like a concrete roof :shock: ) but what has always amused me about the design is the locking room windows - which were bricked over on some earlier 'boxes as an air-raid precaution :oops:

As Brian says, those on the DN&S were built as part of inceasing line capacity (mainly loop lengthening) on the DN&S for the relief route to Southampton and they date from 1942/43.

The South Wales ones - with some improvements - were around Port Talbot and dated from quadrupling and other layout improvements in that area which I think might have been postwar although I'm far from sure :?: There was also a much improved variant on the design somewhere a bit further west which was probably much nearer to the final WR design of brick built 'boxes (of which there were very few) - might be Ferryside or thereabouts but again I'm not certain on that one. And there were also some of the wartime built ones in the Oxford area where, again, considerable layout expansion was carried out for wartime traffic.
[/quote]

Ferryside was a 'normal' GWR brick-built box- I have fond memories of standing on the footbridge watching Westerns and Hymeks pass. I also remember the aftermath of a rather spectacular derailment of an Up train of Gulf 4-wheel tankers. I think the post-ARP box was at Carmarthen. I have a vague recollection (I have lots of them for some reason..) of the shell of a disused ARP box near the site of the former Lando Halt, between Pembrey and Kidwelly, dating from the days of the sidings serving the ROF.
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Re: Highclere

Postby -missy- » Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:37 pm

Hi :D

Interesting stuff guys, I really must meet up with you two at some point and have a chat :D

Anyway, something that has been bugging me since the 2mm Expo is the position of the signal box. I kinda had an idea where it was but someone was quite sure it wouldnt be there because it was quite a distance away from the points and the station. To put my mind at rest (and to proove I was right!) I have had a little play on photoshop and come up with this...

highclere-signal-box.jpg
highclere-signal-box.jpg (78.92 KiB) Viewed 3959 times


As you can see the signal box IS a fair distance away from everything else. My only guess is that it was built there just incase the place was bombed during the war? Anyway I was right! :D

Missy :D
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Re: Highclere

Postby pirouets » Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:37 am

Don't you just love those "i was right moments"!

So as the graphic shows that the signal box "should" be off you layout, where are you actually going to put it? Will it be as far up the board as possible?
Cheers
Steve

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Re: Highclere

Postby -missy- » Sat Aug 23, 2008 8:00 am

pirouets wrote:So as the graphic shows that the signal box "should" be off you layout, where are you actually going to put it? Will it be as far up the board as possible?


Yes :D
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Re: Highclere

Postby The Stationmaster » Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:06 am

-missy- wrote:Hi :D

Interesting stuff guys, I really must meet up with you two at some point and have a chat :D

Anyway, something that has been bugging me since the 2mm Expo is the position of the signal box. I kinda had an idea where it was but someone was quite sure it wouldnt be there because it was quite a distance away from the points and the station. To put my mind at rest (and to proove I was right!) I have had a little play on photoshop and come up with this...

highclere-signal-box.jpg


As you can see the signal box IS a fair distance away from everything else. My only guess is that it was built there just incase the place was bombed during the war? Anyway I was right! :D

Missy :D


Something seems to be not quite right about that Missy so I have done a bit of delving but being a bit short of anything showing a photo of that end of Highclere what I am about to say should not be regarded as conclusive :!:

However what appears to be wrong is that the track layout does not match the position of the signalbox rather than the other way about - if you see what I mean :?: To be more precise - I hope - the track layout you are showing is akin to the 1922 layout but the signalbox position (which might still be a bit out, possibly? - see below) is for the 1942 layout after the loops had been extended southwards. Unfortunately I can't find any scale drawings or maps which show the post October 1942 layout but George Pryer's signallbox diagrams show the 1942 signalbox as directly opposite the new south end double to single connection.

Assuming George had various details accurately recorded (and as what I am about to say relates to signal distances I suspect they probably are fairly accurate) the 'box was 133 yards south of the Down Starting Signal and that signal was 'not very far' from the toe of the points in the siding end of the crossover from the siding to the Up Loop, i.e. about a loco length or so south of the cattle dock. The signal box was 63 yards north of the Up Home signal (which would seem almost certainly to have been no more than 60 feet south of the toe of the points where the Down Loop rejoined the single line).

The only question which remains in relating all of that to the layout plan you have used above is whether or not the south end connection from the siding - now trailing into the extended Down Loop instead of joining the single line - was moved when the 1942 alterations were carried out? George shows the toe of the Down Loop to single connection as being almost toe-to-toe with the connection from the siding and if the distance were that short (probably about 60ft :?: to allow for the locking bar) that would put the single to double connection a bit further north I think. Study of the few pics I can find does suggest that the trailing crossover into the Up Loop didn't move so an alternative might be to use that as a reference point for the 'box position :?:

I hope this lot helps more than it might confuse :)
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Re: Highclere

Postby sparky » Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:19 pm

Hi Missy, I've just been catching up on your progress,what you have achieved is simply stunning.The whole concept,construction and modelling is superb in every way.I really like the laser cut card etc.what a fantastic idea :thup

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Re: Highclere

Postby -missy- » Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:23 pm

Mike.

Thank you :D After you posted that I had another browse through the books I have and came up with the following...

signal-box-diagram.jpg
signal-box-diagram.jpg (32.97 KiB) Viewed 3747 times


You are right :D

I know I have used the early track plan which is wrong for the time period I want to model but I really only wanted a single track at each end into the fiddle yards.

Is this going to be really obvious? as this is not the first time someone has picked up on this. I dont want to have to spend all my time explaining it to people if it ever reaches and exhibitions :(

Missy :(
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Re: Highclere

Postby Din » Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:09 pm

Nah, just don't show off the 1943 trackplan, and then just mention it's an interpretation of Highclere.
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Re: Highclere

Postby The Stationmaster » Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:44 am

-missy- wrote:Mike.

Thank you :D After you posted that I had another browse through the books I have and came up with the following...

signal-box-diagram.jpg


You are right :D

I know I have used the early track plan which is wrong for the time period I want to model but I really only wanted a single track at each end into the fiddle yards.

Is this going to be really obvious? as this is not the first time someone has picked up on this. I dont want to have to spend all my time explaining it to people if it ever reaches and exhibitions :(

Missy :(


It's your railway Missy so it's your interpretation of Highclere the way you want it to be - and a nice one too :D No doubt some other grouchy old nitpicker will moan about it one day (maybe even two of them :!: because it has been covered in books) but so what.

What I would do to make it look realistic and fool the eye of the grouchy onlooker is put the signalbox between the two turnouts at the south end (on its proper side of the line of course). That will look perfectly realistic and, as I say, will help to fool the eye of anyone looking at it a bit more searchingly :thup .
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Re: Highclere (fun with corregated iron)

Postby -missy- » Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:33 am

Hi :D

As the station buillding needs some corrugated iron for the roof of the toilet (plus the fact my clubs layout will need loads of the stuff) I had a go at making a tool for forming the stuff quicker than the tried and tested method of using a coffee jar lid. The piccies below is what I came up with...

corregated-iron-maker-01.jpg
corregated-iron-maker-01.jpg (39.32 KiB) Viewed 3717 times


corregated-iron-maker-02.jpg
corregated-iron-maker-02.jpg (37.01 KiB) Viewed 3705 times


As you can see it uses a very much chopped up screwdriver (the small ones with the 'splines' on them) and works just like a mangle. I have tried it with thin copper sheet and paper and it seems to form them really well :D

At last a way to make loads of the stuff!

Missy :D
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Re: Highclere

Postby BlazeyBridge2 » Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:59 pm

How very inventive! Thats Brilliant!!!!! :D
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Re: Highclere

Postby nevardmedia » Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:21 pm

Really ingenious!

As for the "you don't want to do it like that, you want to do it like this" (think Harry Enfield) brigade, the chances are the're only armchair modellers (so don't get a look in IMHO :lol: ). Definately go with what will give the best visual effect and what you're most happy with - 'Rule Number One' :thup
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Re: Highclere

Postby Pugsley » Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:46 pm

Genius! I think you've just provided me with a method of getting my 59 grilles to the appropriate shape.

Thanks! :thup 8)
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Re: Highclere

Postby pilotfriend » Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:05 pm

This is going to be a wonderful layout.Very impressive!
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Re: Highclere

Postby Din » Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:49 pm

Quick! Steal that idea and send it to the patent office!
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Re: Highclere

Postby -missy- » Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:38 pm

Guys.

Hi :D Thanks for the comments again :D

Just a quick update on progress today....

station-building-25-8-8.jpg
station-building-25-8-8.jpg (48.54 KiB) Viewed 3179 times


I have done a bit on the station building today as you can see. I would have got further if it wasnt for more of those damn compound angle thingies too! I am trying to figure out the station canopy which isnt as easy as I first thought. Oh well, I will figure it out eventually...

Missy :D
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Re: Highclere

Postby The Stationmaster » Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:53 pm

-missy- wrote:Guys.


I have done a bit on the station building today as you can see. I would have got further if it wasnt for more of those damn compound angle thingies too! I am trying to figure out the station canopy which isnt as easy as I first thought. Oh well, I will figure it out eventually...

Missy :D


Is the canopy still on the one at Upton & Blewbury? I can't really take a good look when zooming past on the road and I know the building has been 'extended :!: ' since going into private ownership but the canopy was originally left in place i seem to recall.
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