Eridge (P4) rebuilding

by 10800

original page on Old RMweb

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Comment posted by London cambrian on cambrian</STRONG> on Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:38 pm

More south west and central engines were they then. Shame. mid hants are planning to turn their 'douglas' into a Black motor look alike.

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??? posted on Sat Dec 20, 2008 3:49 pm

Yes, ex-LSWR design, tended to stay on ex-LSWR metals

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Comment posted by London cambrian on cambrian</STRONG> on Sat Dec 20, 2008 3:52 pm

Fair enough. Saves moving the things too far!

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??? posted on Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:15 pm

Boring myself stupid at the moment wiring up the LEDs on the panel for the 'route selection indicators' (no sniggering at the back now Mr Skipsey). At least I can do it in the dining room listening to music (Grace Jones, Kevin Ayers and the Ting Tings so far today), but I can only do a couple of hours at a go and it's too early to get the whisky bottle out. Was pleased that the first section worked exactly to plan first time though .

Will alternate with connecting up some of the tag strips for variety .

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Comment posted by pinkmouse on Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:55 pm

Moon Safari - Air

Yohimi Battles the Pink Robots - Flaming Lips

Seventh Tree - Goldfrap

The Soul Sessions - Joss Stone

Oh,and I've put in my order to Exactoscale, so you can do a bit of Templotting if you want a distraction.

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??? posted on Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:03 pm

I can't remember what it was you wanted Templotting, Al? For the moment I've got plenty enough to do for Eridge, but by all means remind me

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??? posted on Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:33 pm

Some work in progress photos:

Some of the forest of LEDs pushed into the pre-drilled holes

Two sections (fortunately two of the 'longest' ones) wired. I had tried to anchor the LEDs by drowning the backs in Copydex, but that didn't work. Now they are wired, easiest way to stop them tending to work their way out is to tape the wires down between them as a restraint.

Some of the tag strip connections done. Trying to keep things as neat as possible as I go.

And one of the sections lit for Controller A. Should have done this before Christmas and used it as part of the decorations!

Tomorrow I'll lay a couple of busbars to connect all the LED power feeds to, so that I can then test them together rather than just one section at a time.

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Comment posted by Brinkly on Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:43 pm

That is wonderful!

Rod you must teach me! I want a pannel like that!

Nick

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Comment posted by pinkmouse on Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:50 pm

Looking good Rod.

Hot melt glue may well be the best way of securing the LEDs, and if you use low temperature, it can easily be removed for servicing.

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Comment posted by philip-griffiths on Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:04 am

Well Rod, I think you've just put up a good advert for DCC !

I've spent some quality time reading Nigel Burkin's book on the subject, a nice present (even if I had to buy it myself!). I've have always liked the idea of DCC but not found the decisive clincher in anything. Sound is good but too expensive and anyway there are not any modules for a Super D or a Coal Tank. My desire for prototypical operation leads me to a mechanical interlocked signal box (whether it is working signals and turnouts using electric motors is one thing, to capture the feel of a locking mechanism in a real box is the objective). So DCC has not had much to recommend it, until you come on the scene with your Strowger look-alike panel. I started to consider the turnouts in the fiddle yard and all the wiring required. I think I've found good enough justification!!!

Have a Happy Devon New Year

regards

Philip

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??? posted on Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:06 am

I thought it was going too well - just realised tonight that the tag strips around the edge are all a mirror image of where they should be!

Nothing fatal, options are 1) unsolder the work done so far (only three strips used so far out of eight) and start again; 2) put up with longer wiring because the tags are at the opposite end to the D-connector sockets from where they should be; 3) unscrew the tag strips used so far and move them to better (though not ideal) positions and reconfigure the reference schedule.

Obviously 3) is the correct answer, half an hour editing on Excel and reprinting should do it without too much drama!

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??? posted on Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:11 am

Hi Philip, I know, at one point we were thinking of doing the rebuild with DCC but there wasn't the driving consensus to justify the initial outlay in hardware. Fortunately I have a masochistic attraction to the intellectual (to me anyway) challenge of doing this, maybe it just satisfies the logic part of my brain. And the lights are pretty ...

And a very happy New Year to you and the family as well

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??? posted on Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:15 am

Thanks Nick . I'll bring it along to the next DRAG meeting - should be done by then as far as I can without the layout itself - and go through common return/cab control with you if you like, so you have the option of choosing which way you want to go.

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Comment posted by Penlan on Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am

10800, Is there a reason why you have chosen 3 individual coloured leds for each track section rather than a tri-coloured led. It would reduce the wiring slightly and if using other than say 2.5V, the number of resistors too. But otherwise, like you I enjoyed the challenge of designing and putting together the panel, even wrong way round tags - got the T shirt......

My panel from the front - which you can see at SWAG 2009 at Taunton. The two rotary switches are for the Yard and Platform magnetic uncouplers - the ammetre is for the yard controller. There are 3 hand held controllers, Up, Down and Yard. The Up and Down controllers plug into positions near their respective fiddle yards (Up, Down) by their own ammetres. Actually I've just realised looking at the photo, one of the spare (white) levers has now been allocated another signal.

Penlan

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??? posted on Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:21 am

These LEDs are 12V and have built in resistors - there didn't seem to be a tricolour option for this size of LED (3mm diameter) that would have the same spec, but no doubt someone will prove me wrong!

Look forward to seeing it there (and you, and the layout!)

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Comment posted by Brinkly on Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:44 am

Excellent!

Nick

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??? posted on Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:38 am

Some more work spread over the last few days has got me to this stage.

I haven't connected any more of the route selection LEDs yet, concentrating on getting the other internal wiring out of the way. Although I have laid the two busbars for the power feeds; this is just copper wire stuck down with blue or red insulating tape (tape doesn't stick well to the rough side of hardboard, but it's OK if you prime it with Copydex or PVA first).

Tried to minimise the number of cable routes and keep them gathered together where possible, but it's still bit of a cat's cradle. Still, not unexpected when I have chosen to use more intermediate tag connections than strictly necessary just for the sake of order and management of cable distributions to the layout boards. And with 15 sections each selectable by four controllers, plus 12V DC and 16V AC power distribution, 38 points and signals (not started on those yet) and various isolator and PTM switches around there is a lot of wiring to do. I'm glad I planned most of it in advance and colour coded (and documented) everything!.

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Comment posted by Brinkly on Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:48 pm

That is very impressive Rod! I am looking forward to seeing on the 12th!

Nick

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??? posted on Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:14 pm

At the risk of boring you all stupid, here are some more photos of work in progress on what looks to the uninitiated more and more like a growing tangle of wires.

All the 'internal' wiring is now done, leaving just the route indicator LEDs and the connections to the outbound D-connectors (which I will do one at a time as I get the boards themselves). I have used copper wire to 'bus' the outer terminals of the point/signal switches, but I am a bit concerned about connections breaking with temperature fluctuations so I will keep an eye on them in case I have to revert to a set of more flexible omega loop-type connections. The loops connecting all the controllers with the 15 rotary switches have deliberately been kept 'high' to facilitate access to the route selection LEDs.

I have installed the input plugs for the external 12V DC and 16V AC supplies using mains-rated choc-block type connectors. The supplies may come from a variety of sources so this will be the most flexible arrangement. Plugs because the 'live' sockets will be on the wandering leads coming from the transformers and 12V power supplies.

The supplies required are

12V DC - two for the bipolar Tortoise supplies, and two for the LED circuits

16V AC - four controllers and a utility supply for uncoupling magnets

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Comment posted by Penlan on Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:58 am

At Taunton, we saw the top of the Control Panel - though not shown in any of the day's photo's (so far) at viewtopic.php?f=43&t=33785&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=175

Bearing in mind the leds still needed wiring on the view below, what does it look like now? Had I realised the potential to view the underside at Taunton, I would have had peek.

Nice to chat to you there, 10800.

Penlan

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Comment posted by ajdown on Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:11 am

I remember building a similar control panel to that years ago but accidently wired one of the point push buttons into the route indicator lights (which were only 3v with one resistor on the input feed... yes I know it was wrong).

First test... changed a point... BANG 40 LED's explode as 36v from a CDU pass through them. They were very bright though, albeit briefly.

I guess it wasn't helpful using a 100m reel of red wire for absolutely everything.

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Comment posted by The Fatadder on Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:24 am

Glad to see that the wiring is no longer looking so perfect as it did the last time I saw it!!!

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??? posted on Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:24 pm

never do that, you can never trace anything when there's a fault!

Penlan, nice to chat to you too , I haven't wired any more LEDs yet since the photos above, so it looks the same - only a couple of sections of LEDs are wired at the moment. I ought to get back and finish before I lose the will to live ...

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Comment posted by Penlan on Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:32 pm

I rewired a layout for a friend a few years ago, a couple of other people had had a go before me.

In the previous attempts, at some stage they had run out of Black wire for the DC common return on the tracks and substituted white, then it seems they found some black and used it for the point motors AC com., (previously green), meanwhile it appears there was so much white it was used where ever there was a short 'jumper' wire required, be it the track common return or section feed, or on the point motor circuits.

It would have helped if they had started at one end and completed each board as they went along, but no, it seems they followed the, say, Up line all the way through, then the down line and then various siding as it took their fancy. There was also plenty of wire left looping about under the baseboards in case of changes......

Basicaly it was a mess with very little colour coding evident. I understand the original 'temporary' wiring was pretty good with coding, it was somebody else who came along to 'fix-it' that resulted in a mess. Basically, I had to start almost at zero and colour code everything making sure I had plenty of wire.

Never mix colours, I always keep a specific colour to a specific function. This was helped when I had about 30 metres of 64way cable come my way a long time ago., every wire covering has a differnt coding colour combination. I have some left, plus numerous lengths of 32 way cable as well.

Penlan

Penlan

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??? posted on Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:15 pm

I'm using six colours which all have defined functions, and this will carry onto the layout from the panel (in fact Pinkmouse may already have done this for the first board). See halfway down page 4 of this topic for a portion of the tag strip schedule.

I'll be up in Kent later this week so should be able to post a progress report after that.

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