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wenlock

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I've thought for a while that in order to add a bit of variety during operating sessions, Sherton Abbas could do with a few wagons from companies other than the GWR.  The layout is set in Dorset, so likely candidates would be from the S&DJR, MSWJR, and Midland companies.  During the weekend exhibiting the layout at the Telford O gauge show, I bought a couple of kits from Furness wagon works ttps://pregroupingrailways.com/wagons/  in order to build a couple of S&D  examples.

 

FRWC17 Midland/S&DJR/LSWR/LMS/Private Owner 5plk Wagon (With Raised Ends)

 

FRWC21 S&DJR/MR/LNWR/LMS/SR/BRRoad Van 

 

The kits comprise of resin moulded bodies, accompanied by  etched brass and white metal detail parts.

 

Kit components.

IMG_2931a.jpg.7db1aed85123f5fff14ee681fd1675ba.jpg

 

A bit of filler was needed to repair a few air bubbles in the resin castings, but that apart the kits are a really quick way of building wagons!  I decided to change the buffers for sprung examples from Slater's, but that was just personal choice.  The S&D appear to have painted the iron work on their wagons in black, so to avoid fiddly painting I chemically blackened the etched brass components before fitting them to the body work:)

 

Blackened etched brass components.

IMG_3005a.jpg.0c21a40865fa1f8054e600b13a3a1bf7.jpg

 

I found a couple of pictures on the internet of prototype wagons, which I used to base the models on.  Hopefully as they appear to be in the public domain it's not a problem posting them here!

 

aaw933_image.jpg.6f11bddfc88af0979c8bf0832af2e9e1.jpg

 

I hope I've got the tare weight right, its a bit tricky to decipher and I'm also not that convinced by the models axle boxes:rolleyes:

 

Model open wagon.

IMG_3022a.jpg.ad5f7bc47834a7df2dc21309c8ec38e3.jpg

 

 

Prototype Road Van.

1297782112_SDroadvan.jpg.0c766218150cae08876205897df0c2a3.jpg

 

Model road van.

IMG_3029a.jpg.175eaa23d53d631ca86959e4d253deab.jpg

 

Pair of wagons together.

IMG_3035a.jpg.9d1aa48a0fc64807dedf390723a87261.jpg

 

Pictures of the wagons in service on the layout.

 

IMG_3040a.jpg.04caf1362879e7806e3a056feaab8712.jpg

 

IMG_3052a.jpg.13234df4c15a72ad59ec880525c74465.jpg

 

IMG_3048a.jpg.6f770c14667006a59dc3d92d598ba376.jpg

 

 

I'll take the opportunity to wish everyone on RMweb a very Merry Christmas and an excellent 2020!

 

Best wishes

 

Dave

 

Snowy_Sherton_Abbas_2019a.jpg.43b9f156d152bfb3d4233048bde5a85e.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by wenlock
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Those two look right at home on Sherton Abbas Dave. And neatly built as always. I've been curious to see what the kit components of the Furness Wagon Co. wagons were like, so this is very useful.

 

We had a discussion on here about the SDJR Road Vans, which eventually revealed that  unlike other companies they travelled off the system, even right up to London.

 

Anyway, have a happy christmas Dave. I'll be sending you some Somerset cider and cheddar - which explains why No. 1038 is seen here at Farthing :lol:

 

IMG_1406e.jpg.cf19dce7a6fd3efec378012c376c7c46.jpg

Edited by Mikkel
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...Merry Christmas to the staff at (picture perfect) Sherton Abbas and a happy New Year!

KitPW

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An alternative starting point for the S&DJR 5-plank wagon would be the Slaters kit - a bit of extra work needed to make the raised ends but at least the axleboxes look more the thing. The S&DJR had a large number of 5-plank wagons of the Midland type - around half their wagon fleet - the majority of which were of standard appearance, without the raised ends, though some had a metal sheet rail. Some had the Ellis 10A grease axleboxes, with the lugs, while earlier ones has the narrower-looking 8A axleboxes, as on the road van (though I'll come on to that). All, however, had the local Highbridge adaptations of chunky doorstop and long brake lever. 

 

Here's my attempt in 4 mm/ft scale, using the Slaters kit (towards end of post):

 

If you are interested in my artwork for S&DJR numberplates, please do get in touch.

 

@Mikkel's mentioned his 4 mm/ft scale model of the very same road van; he's modestly not drawn attention to the skill required in starting from the Slaters kit for a 16'6" Midland van:

 

Some of these - fifty I think - were built at Derby and others by S.J. Clay I think (I don't have  Russ Garner's Registers to hand); from the date of build, 1896, and indeed the photo, it's evident that these vans had the Ellis 10A axleboxes not the 8A boxes Furness have given it.

 

Incidentally, these S&DJR road vans were virtually identical to a batch of 200 tariff vans (different name, same function) the Midland had built for its own use around the same time, except the Midland version had a two-pane widow in the end. The same design (without the windows) was used for the first lot of banana vans.

 

Apologies, I'm away from my copy of Midland Wagons so can't give chapter and verse on diagrams, drawing nos. and lot nos.

 

 

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Nice work and lovely models. 
But I wonder:

Quote

The layout is set in Dorset, so likely candidates would be from the S&DJR, MSWJR, and Midland companies.

I am not so sure, at least as far as the SDJR and MSWJR are concerned.

what goods would be shipped from customers on those lines to Sheraton Abbas? A lot of such traffic might be local enough to use local carters, or be local produce and therefore in competition with local suppliers, but with the added cost of transport by rail. 
Certainly in your chosen era, the only way the wagons would return to their home systems loaded would be where specific arrangements had been made. They would mostly be returned empty and pdq at that to avoid demurrage charges.

Most branchlines saw inward movements of coal (PO wagons) and cattle (own company wagons, because cattle have to be taken off trains at regular intervals, so would be loaded onto fresh wagons belonging to a new company if travelling from one system to another) and miscellaneous goods via transshipment sheds in “station wagons” or the van of a passenger train. 
Other inward shipments might be manure (in home company wagons, from stables or major centres on the home system)  or other forms of fertiliser. 
Beyond that, unless there is a specific traffic, then the most likely wagons will be from companies setting major ports and manufacturing centres, so the most likely wagons would be home system for a GWR branch (London, Bristol, Plymouth, Birmingham, etc) or the bigger railway fleets: LNWR, MR, NER, GNR, NBR, CR. Maybe LYR and GER, but other than agricultural implements and machines, the latter is possibly less likely.

 

Putting my head above the parapet, I am going to suggest that you have too many SDJR wagons, and need to replace some with the occasional foreigner from further afield!

 

Although if there are photos around to prove me wrong, someone please point us in the right direction!

 

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I would have to disagree withe the wagon movement issue. Loads were book through from the point of origin to their final destination. The only time a load, including cattle, would be moved from one wagon to another would be at the change of gauge. 

I build a Furness Railway cattle van and a box van from photos provided by the Brighton circle. I have a photo of a LBSCR class D open in Wick and there are photos of midland 299 wagons in Penzance Cornwall. 

This intermingled situation because more noticeable post 1917 with the common users system as the empty wagon could be reloaded and ship off to another destination.

Marc

 

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21 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Those two look right at home on Sherton Abbas Dave. And neatly built as always. I've been curious to see what the kit components of the Furness Wagon Co. wagons were like, so this is very useful.

 

We had a discussion on here about the SDJR Road Vans, which eventually revealed that  unlike other companies they travelled off the system, even right up to London.

 

Anyway, have a happy christmas Dave. I'll be sending you some Somerset cider and cheddar - which explains why No. 1038 is seen here at Farthing :lol:

 

IMG_1406e.jpg.cf19dce7a6fd3efec378012c376c7c46.jpg

 

Thanks Mikkel, number 1038 certainly gets about a bit, a very busy wagon:)  The cider and cheese is most welcome, a delivery of Dorset apple cake is being loaded for the return journey to Farthing.

 

21 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

Interesting sheet supporter on the open wagon. I've never seen one like that before.

 

 

Hi Russ, yes simple but effective!  I imagine it must have got in the way a bit when loading the wagon though.

 

21 hours ago, drduncan said:

 Dave,

Very nice! And merry Xmas to you too.

Drduncan

 

Thanks Duncan!

 

19 hours ago, Dave John said:

They have built up rather well, you can never have too many wagons.

 

Thanks Dave! Quite right, you can NEVER have too many wagons:)

 

19 hours ago, Simond said:

MrsD would not necessarily agree...

 

:)

Season’s Greetings!

Simon

 

Thanks Simon, MrsD sounds rather like Mrs Wenlock!  I have discovered though, that as long as the wagons are all grey she doesn’t notice any additions :D

 

18 hours ago, kitpw said:

...Merry Christmas to the staff at (picture perfect) Sherton Abbas and a happy New Year!

KitPW

 

Thanks KitPw!

 

15 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

An alternative starting point for the S&DJR 5-plank wagon would be the Slaters kit - a bit of extra work needed to make the raised ends but at least the axleboxes look more the thing. The S&DJR had a large number of 5-plank wagons of the Midland type - around half their wagon fleet - the majority of which were of standard appearance, without the raised ends, though some had a metal sheet rail. Some had the Ellis 10A grease axleboxes, with the lugs, while earlier ones has the narrower-looking 8A axleboxes, as on the road van (though I'll come on to that). All, however, had the local Highbridge adaptations of chunky doorstop and long brake lever. 

 

Here's my attempt in 4 mm/ft scale, using the Slaters kit (towards end of post):

 

If you are interested in my artwork for S&DJR numberplates, please do get in touch.

 

@Mikkel's mentioned his 4 mm/ft scale model of the very same road van; he's modestly not drawn attention to the skill required in starting from the Slaters kit for a 16'6" Midland van:

 

Some of these - fifty I think - were built at Derby and others by S.J. Clay I think (I don't have  Russ Garner's Registers to hand); from the date of build, 1896, and indeed the photo, it's evident that these vans had the Ellis 10A axleboxes not the 8A boxes Furness have given it.

 

Incidentally, these S&DJR road vans were virtually identical to a batch of 200 tariff vans (different name, same function) the Midland had built for its own use around the same time, except the Midland version had a two-pane widow in the end. The same design (without the windows) was used for the first lot of banana vans.

 

Apologies, I'm away from my copy of Midland Wagons so can't give chapter and verse on diagrams, drawing nos. and lot nos.

 

 

 

Thanks Stephen, that’s really useful information.  I’d be very interested in seeing your artwork for the S & D number plates, the sole bars do look rather bare without them! Would you like me to PM you regarding these?

 

15 hours ago, Furness Wagon said:

Very nice work. It's good to see some of our Avon's on a layout other than our own.

Marc

 

Thanks Marc,

I thoroughly enjoyed building your kits, I’m sure there will be further additions in 2020:)

 

14 hours ago, Regularity said:

Nice work and lovely models. 
 

 

Thanks very much, glad you liked them:)

 

14 hours ago, Regularity said:


But I wonder:

I am not so sure, at least as far as the SDJR and MSWJR are concerned.

what goods would be shipped from customers on those lines to Sheraton Abbas? A lot of such traffic might be local enough to use local carters, or be local produce and therefore in competition with local suppliers, but with the added cost of transport by rail. 
Certainly in your chosen era, the only way the wagons would return to their home systems loaded would be where specific arrangements had been made. They would mostly be returned empty and pdq at that to avoid demurrage charges.

Most branchlines saw inward movements of coal (PO wagons) and cattle (own company wagons, because cattle have to be taken off trains at regular intervals, so would be loaded onto fresh wagons belonging to a new company if travelling from one system to another) and miscellaneous goods via transshipment sheds in “station wagons” or the van of a passenger train. 
Other inward shipments might be manure (in home company wagons, from stables or major centres on the home system)  or other forms of fertiliser. 
Beyond that, unless there is a specific traffic, then the most likely wagons will be from companies setting major ports and manufacturing centres, so the most likely wagons would be home system for a GWR branch (London, Bristol, Plymouth, Birmingham, etc) or the bigger railway fleets: LNWR, MR, NER, GNR, NBR, CR. Maybe LYR and GER, but other than agricultural implements and machines, the latter is possibly less likely.

 

Putting my head above the parapet, I am going to suggest that you have too many SDJR wagons, and need to replace some with the occasional foreigner from further afield!

 

Although if there are photos around to prove me wrong, someone please point us in the right direction!

 

 

That’s all very useful information and allows me to model wagons from further afield than I initially thought.  I suppose I could have LB&SCR wagons bringing merchandise from the South coast in addition to the companies that you mention.  I’ve got a couple of Midland examples on the bench which should be suitable.

 

1 hour ago, Furness Wagon said:

I would have to disagree withe the wagon movement issue. Loads were book through from the point of origin to their final destination. The only time a load, including cattle, would be moved from one wagon to another would be at the change of gauge. 

I build a Furness Railway cattle van and a box van from photos provided by the Brighton circle. I have a photo of a LBSCR class D open in Wick and there are photos of midland 299 wagons in Penzance Cornwall. 

This intermingled situation because more noticeable post 1917 with the common users system as the empty wagon could be reloaded and ship off to another destination.

Marc

 

 

Thanks Marc for your thoughts, it’s obviously quite a complex subject, but that makes it all the more interesting!

 

Thanks to everybody that commented, Merry Christmas and a splendid 2020!

 

BW

 

Dave

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 The S&D appear to have painted the iron work on their wagons in black,

 

But neither of your prototype photos show evidence of this. The van is in standard Derby grey livery with grey ironwork. While the open wagon looks as if it has been taken from straight from traffic and had its livery 'enhanced' for photographic purposes.

 

Note:

  • there are chalk marks on the wagon planks,
  • only the two headstock washer plates are dark, all the rest of the solebar ironwork is a similar colour to the timber solebar, 
  • some of the nuts on the solebar have been picked out with a white background
  • the brake lever and axlebox fronts, which are black in every UK wagon livery, are paler than the body ironwork
  • there is a dark patch on the end planks just above the lefthand corner plate, where it looks as if someones paintbrush slipped which he was applying the blackening to the corner plate. 

 

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On 24/12/2019 at 19:09, billbedford said:

 

But neither of your prototype photos show evidence of this. The van is in standard Derby grey livery with grey ironwork. While the open wagon looks as if it has been taken from straight from traffic and had its livery 'enhanced' for photographic purposes.

 

Note:

  • there are chalk marks on the wagon planks,
  • only the two headstock washer plates are dark, all the rest of the solebar ironwork is a similar colour to the timber solebar, 
  • some of the nuts on the solebar have been picked out with a white background
  • the brake lever and axlebox fronts, which are black in every UK wagon livery, are paler than the body ironwork
  • there is a dark patch on the end planks just above the lefthand corner plate, where it looks as if someones paintbrush slipped which he was applying the blackening to the corner plate. 

 

 

The official photo of Road Van No. 1038, is, I'm fairly sure, take at Derby. (The row of old 3-plank wagons with 2-plank ends - the elusive "dirt wagons"? - gives me confidence of this.) It's not surprising that a Derby-built vehicle would be turned out in Midland style, irrespective of what Highbridge's practice was.

 

I take your point about the freshness of the black paint on the corner plates, knee washer plates, and hinges of No. 210. On the other hand, I don't think the standard 5-plank wagons in this photo have been specially prepared. I would wonder why it was thought worth freshening the black parts up on No. 210 if that wasn't the usual Highbridge livery style?

 

I also submit this cattle wagon for consideration. 

 

It is the case that well-worn wagons often appear to have black ironwork. I have two theories for this. Firstly, iron and wood would weather differently so differences in apparent shade in a monochrome photo may be due the differences in surface roughness and hence reflectivity. Secondly, ironwork would be painted black before assembly of the wagon (how universal was this practice?); the wagon might be painted all over the same colour but with weathering the black paint on the ironwork might start to show through.

 

Here's an example of a wagon that has been assembled and not yet painted while here we have a wagon that undoubtedly started out in all-over grey but now appears to have black ironwork

 

I'll be back among my books tomorrow...

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19 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

 

 

I also submit this cattle wagon for consideration. 

 

I can’t imagine anyone specially repainting the iron work black and then re painting the lime wash once it had dried just for a photograph!

 

I shall look forward to more of your thoughts once you are “back among your books”

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There is evidence of  a 6plank in the grey livery with the iron works picked out in black but with the S&DJR painted out and large LSWR painted on.

The normal reason for iron works being picked out in black was that the iron components were built before the rest of the wagon and the black paint was to stop corrosion. Most companies reverted to an allover colour when the wagons came back for a repaint. However the S&DJR we a company that continued to pick out the iron works.

Marc

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Splendid additions to the Shirty Abacus fleet, Dave. 

 

Perhaps something in Prussian Blue next..........? 

 

Rob. 

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On 28/12/2019 at 15:39, NHY 581 said:

Splendid additions to the Shirty Abacus fleet, Dave. 

 

Perhaps something in Prussian Blue next..........? 

 

Rob. 

Thanks Rob!  Something Prussian Blue is definitely on the cards for Shirty:)  I rather fancy a horse box for 2020!

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Glorious stuff Dave, I don't know if the posts above are correct or not but the notion that you can have too many S&D wagons is clearly nonsense:-)

 

Christmas plus early arrival of new grandson has put me out of circulation for the last few weeks but starting to catch up now.

 

jerry 

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14 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

Now that would be something to see.......Or a Milk van. I know Roxey did one in 4mm. Not sure about 7mm though. 

 

Rob. 

 

Oh....hang on. ....

 

https://roxeymouldings.co.uk/category/57/7mm-scale-s-djr-van/

Ooo that milk van is very pretty!  I just need to think of a reason why one might appear at Shirty:rolleyes:  I guess I’m pretty safe with a horse box though:)

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14 hours ago, queensquare said:

Glorious stuff Dave

Thanks Jerry!
 

14 hours ago, queensquare said:

I don't know if the posts above are correct or not but the notion that you can have too many S&D wagons is clearly nonsense:-)

:D I entirely agree

 

14 hours ago, queensquare said:

 

Christmas plus early arrival of new grandson has put me out of circulation for the last few weeks but starting to catch up now.

Congratulations on the new addition!  

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Perhaps the area around Shirty (I like the nickname!) was known for breeding racehorses - as at Lambourn?

 

Just make sure you treat the staff well...

 

 

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1 hour ago, wenlock said:

Ooo that milk van is very pretty!  I just need to think of a reason why one might appear at Shirty:rolleyes:  I guess I’m pretty safe with a horse box though:)

 

 

Well, I do have a nice tin of Prussian Blue paint you can have should you need one.................just saying.....l mean, if you have the paint you will need something to put it on....

 

I agree about the horse box but equally, I think you would be on safe ground with the Milk van turning up at Shirty. They did get about. 

 

I shall get the books out.........

 

 

Rob 

 

 

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Sorry to be an old grump but I think an S&DJR milk van on a Great Western branch terminus is a bit of a stretch. S&DJR milk vans did go up to London by the South Western, as I learnt from @bbishop who has been looking at the selfsame Roxey kit, but milk from Sherton Abbas dairy herds would surely go gout in one of those brown siphony thingies? Pre-Great War pooling, the presence of foreign wagons requires some explanation, especially on an out-of-the-way branch line. Statistically, your best bet for a foreign wagon is of course a Midland 5-plank open to D299, since they accounted for about 5% of all wagons on the rails c. 1905! But even before that, how about some more Great Western wagons in pre-1904 livery?

 

The horsebox is a better bet. If you really wanted to push the boat out on S&DJR blue stock, how about a first class saloon, horsebox, and open carriage truck with landau, as some Somerset nob comes visiting your local nobility?

 

Here's No. 6, according to Garner a 32 ft saloon first built at Highbridge in 1886; subtly different to the contemporary Midland family carriages to D459:

 

image.png.576fd4d256f5e2ff9f0e47aa769feefb.png

 

Copy of DY 8452, stolen a while ago from @phil_sutters's gallery that I can't now find.

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