I personally would go for No 5, as I prefer the broader lettering, the narrower ones look a bit forced. In fact I would suggest even larger letters, extending across the centre of the wagon, although that would mean dealing with the ironwork, but there are examples where the lettering is kept either side of the door, as your wagons.

What you will need to include is the tare weight, load limit and a geographic location, so the wagon has a chance of getting home - Kent Coal could be anywhere in the country!

The internal woodwork, I think, was normally unpainted timber, although they may have applied some paint of non specific colour, smudge? although the first few loads of coal would probably have removed most of any paint, and darkened the timber.

As for the overall livery, I appreciate that it is your layout and there were always exceptions to the norms, but I cannot recall seeing a non-black PO wagon with black ends, and the black top to the ends is very conspicuous. Also, almost every PO wagon with timber solebars had them painted in the body colour with the ironwork picked out in black, although steel solebars usually were painted black.

Thanks for that Nick, very useful info!

The wider lettering I think is out, as the LBSC wagon is the only one big enough to fit it on! As you say, the insides of the grey wagons look very conspicuous, I'll have to sort that out with a decent weathering, and paint them wood coloured on the next wagons I make. I confess I did think about adding locations to them, but the thought of spelling it out with those tiny letters put me off a bit - maybe when I've gathered up some motivation! Load limits are on the solebars as per SER practice, but can't be seen in this photo.

The inspiration for these liveries is a mix of the following two photos - the first was a demo train, so not a permanent livery. Not sure on the authenticity of the second, but I like the colour scheme.

(from SubBrit)

(from WikiWand)

The trouble with the "preserved" Tilmanstone wagon is that they have followed the AIrfix/Dapol route and taken a modern(ish) wagon and applied a livery that was originally on 8 plank, shorter wagons, using modern graphic/typeface concepts. The lettering is rather too spindly and, because the wagon has a steel underframe, it has been painted black, so a thinly disguised pastiche rather than an authentic replica.

I've had a go at a rough version of what might be a suitable livery. I'm afraid I have used the first vaguely appropriate wagon as a basis, a K's LBSC wagon, which was only in primer, and I have attempted to blacken some of the iron work just to show the general effect. I should have used one of your mouldings, as I have several on the table behind me, just waiting for three link couplings and painting, and very good they look too, many thanks, but I haven't taken any usable photos yet.

I've used Franklin Gothic font for speed, as I think it is quite a good match for signwritten lettering, although others will no doubt comment on the "incorrect" proportions of some of the letters!

A couple of further suggestions. Since you can't see both sides of the wagon at the same time, the two sides don't need to be identical, so you can virtually double the size of your wagon fleet. For example, it's simple to have different numbers on each side, and the lettering can be different, perhaps set at an angle, curved or subtly different, perhaps "coals", or an added "Co", or even a completely different company. Regarding numbers, perhaps you should think big, to give the impression of an extensive fleet. Many smaller companies numbered their wagons jumping up in fives or tens, or started at 100 or 1000.

4 hours ago, Nick Holliday said:

Since you can't see both sides of the wagon at the same time, the two sides don't need to be identical

Actually, the opposite sides of my wagons are completely blank! Saves 50% cost on transfers... I have an end-to-end layout under construction, so they're like the dark side of the moon.

Thanks for the livery sketch, the next wagon I make, I'll use the larger lettering on the smaller wagon so it crosses over the ironwork like that. The fact that all my wagons are in slightly different liveries isn't a bad thing, as it means they're easily identifiable for the shunting puzzle element of the layout!

3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Are those the HMRS transfers you are using? They're well-observed. The drawback for the pre-grouping modeller is that far to much of the sheet is given over to large sizes I'll never use!

They are the HMRS ones - chosen, as you say, for the small(ish) lettering rather than the large, later type. Thanks for the background info, I'll confess early wagon design/livery is something I should know more about, an area to work on perhaps. Incidentally, your wagons were posted this morning, so hopefully should be with you soon.

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Thanks, I'll look forward to those. Would I have done better to pay you in teabags and pasta?

You jest, but... I was queuing at 8am this morning, so am back out of the danger zone for both items, thankfully. Given that I haven't really moved on from the student style of cooking, both are very definitely 'essential' supplies 

I think the blue livery looks nice unweathered. You should probably find out what it looks like when dirty before deciding. If these are your predominant PO wagon then having a distinct colour to them might alleviate the sea of grey ... but your company wagons are red, so maybe that's less important.

Interiors should definitely be unpainted wood. Paint flake contaminate the load; creosote more so. Even coal may need to avoid contamination if it's for the brewing or food industries --- that's why brewers liked Welsh anthracite, since it brought less poison into the mix. If you ever do a metal-bodied open, then that would probably be painted inside, but as noted the paint would scrape off quickly.

A really easy way to paint dirty wood inside a mineral wagon:

1. Base coat of Tamyia acrylic "wooden deck tan" which looks nothing like wood by itself, but...
2. Dense wash of burnt umber artists' acrylic paint, splodged on with a brush and then partly wiped off along the line of the planks with a cotton bud.
3. Repeat step 2 until it looks woodish from a safe distance. Maybe vary the mix with a little raw sienna opaque and/or black between washes.
4. Successive washes of blackish artists' acrylic until it looks dirty enough.

This will not get you highly-accurate colouring (see learned discussion over on the S4 society forum for more realistic weathering) but messing about with washes is really easy and cheap, and looks highly plausible even thought it's not really right. And you don't need an airbrush to do it, so that's pounds saved and a lot less pain in your life.

HTH.

1 hour ago, Guy Rixon said:

I think the blue livery looks nice unweathered. You should probably find out what it looks like when dirty before deciding. If these are your predominant PO wagon then having a distinct colour to them might alleviate the sea of grey ... but your company wagons are red, so maybe that's less important.

 

Interiors should definitely be unpainted wood. Paint flake contaminate the load; creosote more so. Even coal may need to avoid contamination if it's for the brewing or food industries --- that's why brewers liked Welsh anthracite, since it brought less poison into the mix. If you ever do a metal-bodied open, then that would probably be painted inside, but as noted the paint would scrape off quickly.

 

A really easy way to paint dirty wood inside a mineral wagon:

1. Base coat of Tamyia acrylic "wooden deck tan" which looks nothing like wood by itself, but...
2. Dense wash of burnt umber artists' acrylic paint, splodged on with a brush and then partly wiped off along the line of the planks with a cotton bud.
3. Repeat step 2 until it looks woodish from a safe distance. Maybe vary the mix with a little raw sienna opaque and/or black between washes.
4. Successive washes of blackish artists' acrylic until it looks dirty enough.

This will not get you highly-accurate colouring (see learned discussion over on the S4 society forum for more realistic weathering) but messing about with washes is really easy and cheap, and looks highly plausible even thought it's not really right. And you don't need an airbrush to do it, so that's pounds saved and a lot less pain in your life.

 

HTH.

Thanks for that - see the next few days blogs for a couple of attempts at weathering. I'm finding I do quite like using washes.

The light blue I think would work in a later era, but I don't think that bright a colour would be common in circa. 1900-1914. Happy to be proved wrong though.