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"Stanier Twins...or not?"


S.A.C Martin

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The above is my railroad Black Five, numbered 45249. I've bought - second hand - another Stanier Black Five to restore. Pic below shows the extent of the damage it had when it arrived at the works:

 

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45455's smokebox was badly melted, with the chimney at an odd angle, and the smoke gen popping through. It also had (not clear in this photo) damage to the left hand side valve gear.

 

After removal of the smoke generator, and the damaged chimney, and rebuilding the smokebox to some extent, I fitted a spare Stanier chimney to the smokebox I had in the parts bin.

 

The result is something much better looking, but showing up a lot of inadequacies of the Railroad Black Five - however, with some twists:

 

 

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First off, length. Lining them up I expected them to be similar lengths - the Railroad Black Five is clearly about two scale foot and a half shorter (close to one centimetre) and it shows up very clearly. The firebox and cab seems to be the main culprit - it flabbergasted me as I was told by a fairly reliable source they were doing the same thing as the A1/A3/A4 chassis - same one for Railroad and super detail but with different valve gear. That's not actually the case here.

 

Why is this? Its tender drive heritage perhaps, as its the same chassis that was utilized for the old Patriot model too.

 

Looking at the cabs, the differences in length become slightly clearer:

 

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And yet - here's a question for you. Which tender goes to which engine?

 

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The correct answer is 45249 on the left, and 45455 on the right. But aside from a little detailing at the front of the tenders - the buffers are clear on 45455's front - the two tenders are identical in length and wheelbase, and share the same style top too.

 

The two engines are meant to be of the same class of engine, in the same batch - and while one is definitely better looking than the other, at the engine end, that Hornby haven't produced a Stanier tender that's better than this one surprises me.

 

Until next time!

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theres something not quite right about any of the Hornby black 5 models, i cant put my finger on it but they just dont capture the look of a real 5.

im hoping Bachmann have a crack at it at some point as the damage here highlights a difference in quality...i fitted a seuthe smoke generator to my Bachmann jubilee and forgot to a) fill it with smoke oil B) forgot it was running round my layout while i went and ate tea etc, came back to it an hour and a half later and the smokebox was only slightly warm around the chimney.

good job repairing the damage thoughsmile.gif

 

by the way hows the stirling single coming on?

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by the way hows the stirling single coming on?

 

Not yet unpacked it from university, though rest assured it's coming on swimmingly! :) Will be posting pics of it in the coming weeks as I finish drilling the splashers out and generally adding the details to it. Last thing to do now is fit handrails to the smokebox and boiler, and the cab backhead controls.

 

...then the final stage: finally, painting it! :D

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I think the bogie on the early Black Five may also have been too short, as well as the boiler / firebox / cab measurement that you highlighted.

 

I remember a Railway Modeller article (spread over two or three months) in 1984/1985 (Jan/Feb?) which showed how to correct some of the error, using some bits from Mainline / Dapol, which were more freely available at the time). Quite a good job made of it too. You might want to have a dig around for this.

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A very good point Horsetan - I'll have a check of that bogie...

 

They won't be modified much beyond weathering and sealing of transfers thereafter in this event, but it does rather confirm my thoughts that neither of them quite captures the scale length of a true Stanier 5MT, in the same way that both the Railroad and Super Detail A1/A3/A4s do.

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...that neither of them quite captures the scale length of a true Stanier 5MT...

What's up with the length of the new-generation 5MT?

 

The ones in MRJ and dotted about RMWeb suggest it polishes up into a top-notch model with little work.

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I always think that the smokebox overhang does not look right i:e not enough, but still consider the Chinese 5 to be 1,000% better than the Railroad 5. Why buy a r/road 5 for the same price as an used Chinese 5 on e bay ? No to a Bachmann 5 I've got too many chinese 5s.

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What's up with the length of the new-generation 5MT?

 

The ones in MRJ and dotted about RMWeb suggest it polishes up into a top-notch model with little work.

 

From my measurements, the newer of the two is slightly too long, and the older is by far too short! No denying that the new ones scrubs up better, only that when compared to its similar class member - the new Bachmann Jubilee - it does not look quite as workmanlike as the latter.

 

Just one man's opinion, mind! :)

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From my measurements, the newer of the two is slightly too long, and the older is by far too short! No denying that the new ones scrubs up better, only that when compared to its similar class member - the new Bachmann Jubilee - it does not look quite as workmanlike as the latter.

 

Just one man's opinion, mind! :)

 

Cool, you had me worried ;) I'm not up on my vital statistics.

 

 

Be kind to the old girl though, she's got a few more years under her belt than the latest Jubilee/Clan/what have you. Perhaps Hornby will have a wee tweak sometime, tidying up the front bogie, bufferbeam and tender would pretty much do it. (IMO) :)

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