Hi,

Did you explore using RR&Co software prior to going down the JMRI route? I only ask as it is extremely well suited to meeting your brief of wanting to achieve prototypical operation. By this I mean full interlocking of points, block sections and signals, whilst running a complex timetable. The system can also be designed to allow for any number of human operators to work alongside the computer control, either acting as as drivers of locomotives, or signalmen.

I like your conclusion of using block sensors for detection, as again, this is more prototypical. You could also use very short block sections for accurate stopping of trains if you wished.

Hope the above is helpful

Best wishes

Mike

Have you looked at asymmetric DCC, this uses feedback from the chip for automation, an explanation here http://www.tonystrains.com/technews/lenz-asy-abc.htm

Also railcom,

http://www.dcc4pc.co.uk/railcom_uses.html

http://www.lenzusa.com/techinfo/techinfolist.htm

Have you looked at asymmetric DCC, this uses feedback from the chip for automation, an explanation here http://www.tonystrai...enz-asy-abc.htm

Also railcom,

http://www.dcc4pc.co...ilcom_uses.html

http://www.lenzusa.c...echinfolist.htm

I actually chose Lenz as my DCC system because of these technologies, expecting a good amount of development to take place around them. So far that doesnt seem to have happened, Basic assymetric DCC seems to be OK at stopping a train at a defined place, but so far Ive not seen it do much more than this.

Railcom looks as though it might have promise, but it isnt something that my software package supports. I actually note with interest that the Hornby DCC system has got this feature, and they are pushing computer software. I briefly spoke to Simon Kohler a week or two ago at the Hartlepool exibition, and he gave a broad hint that Hornby had a new piece of software in the wings that would handle more automation. I wonder if it will use Railcom especially as the Hornby DCC system has no feedback bus.

Railcom appears to operate in a similar way to block detection, with the layout physically split into sections and power to each fed through a railcom module, in much the same way as a block detection module. The added bonus is that the decoder can feed back information, using the DCC bus for communication rather than a separate feedback bus which will only report whether a given sensor is on or off. The advantage seems to be that the section can detect not only that there is a train in it, but which one it is, however the train tracking software on the computer should have managed to work this out for itself without needing this information. I can see a disadvantage that all Railcom tells you is that the engine is in the section, and from the details I've read it won't detect the full train. For automation purposes this is a problem as you will have no idea when the train has left the previous section and it is clear for the next one.

Hi,

Did you explore using RR&Co software prior to going down the JMRI route? I only ask as it is extremely well suited to meeting your brief of wanting to achieve prototypical operation. By this I mean full interlocking of points, block sections and signals, whilst running a complex timetable. The system can also be designed to allow for any number of human operators to work alongside the computer control, either acting as as drivers of locomotives, or signalmen.

I like your conclusion of using block sensors for detection, as again, this is more prototypical. You could also use very short block sections for accurate stopping of trains if you wished.

Hope the above is helpful

Best wishes

Mike

Mike

Thanks for the reply, I note what you say about RR & Co with interest, and yes I have thought about RR & Co, but its only in the last couple of months I’ve had a machine able to run it. As far as I’ve been able to tell RR & Co is windows only software and I’m a mac user for most stuff and the ancient pc in the railway room runs linux. JMRI has been my choice for ages as it runs happily on these machines and over the years Ive used more and more bits of it, for example it was the only package for quite a while that allowed the use of a mobile phone as a throttle. (I was involved in the user testing of WiThrottle before it was publicly available and have loved using it ever since the first day it arrived as a beta version on my iPhone)

I’ve heard of people giving up on JMRI and moving to RR&Co to achieve automation, but these folk always seem to refer to JMRI versions of several years ago and the software has developed hugely since then.

Now I have the ability to connect a windows pc to the layout I’ve taken another look, but so far I’ve been put off by the price, having preferred to spend available funds on decoders and detection devices. As far as I can see it doesn’t seem possible to try the software without buying it and there aren’t even any manuals available online to have a look at to get some idea of what it does. To do what I want seems to need at least the silver version (£300+), and since I can find no technical information I have no idea whether this will actually suffice or whether I’ll need the gold version (£500+).

The RR & Co website is shocking, obviously originally written in German and badly translated into English, and is a marketing exercise with virtually no technical information on the product, or at least none I’ve been able to find. So far this has put me off wanting to look any further, but hearing what you say about its capability I’ll keep an open mind. If you can point me to any manuals or the like I’d be very interested.

Re using short blocks for exact stopping, I had thought of that but I need to use the dozen or so Irdots I’ve bought to do something! ( I suppose I could always sell them on ebay to fund more block detectors)

Update……..

I’ve been back to th RR&co website and discovered that despite being listed in the price list as items to purchase, it is possible to download these for free. A quick look at the Bronze manual suggests the software will run without a license, so I’ll download a copy and have a play. The manual also shows some functionality available in bronze that I’d assumed from the limited info on the website would probably require silver.

Maybe this could be a lower cost venture than I had first assumed?

Hi Kevin,

Great, you've seen the download/free trial, and also found the manuals to download, so at least now you can get an idea of the potential of RR&Co.

Where RR&Co gets really exciting in my view, is in it's ability to add an infinite number of macros to define the operation of the various elements on the layout. By this I mean that blocks; signals; points; locomotives and schedules (a route from A to B ), can all be made to trigger or respond to certain events. Imagine this simple scenario:

The 3.30pm local passenger service from Station A to Station B, has to pass a junction protected by a home signal. The local left Station A at 3.30pm, automatically started by RR&Co as per the time of the clock in RR&Co. Before it starts, the sound of passenger carriage doors are heard to slam, the starter signal slowly comes off, then the guard whistles the right away, followed by a short loco whistle in response from the loco. The train then slowly gets under way with a very gentle prototypical start (inertia programmed into chip), drain cocks open before the exhaust beat takes over a few moments later.

At the junction, the signalman has let a mineral goods out of the branch (driven by you under manual control) in front of the local passenger, and it now occupies the block in advance of the local passenger. The junction signal remains on, and the passenger gently coasts to a stand (no exhaust beat and gentle squeal of brakes) at the signal, finally giving a short whistle to let the signalman know he's there. You continue to have the road with your mineral (according to signals automatically pulled off by RR&Co because the blocks in advance of you are clear), and you happily plod along at a scale 25mph with your load of heavy wagons.

Once you have cleared the block section in advance of the passenger still held at the junction (including your brake van which triggers block detection due to the tail lamp pick up via the wheels), the home signal is slowly pulled off (servo activated and set to v slow operation), the loco gives another short whistle to acknowledge the signal, and again pulls slowly away with drain cocks open due to the length of its stand, all of this being under the control of RR&Co.

Clearly, there were many macros behind all the various operations above, but it gives some idea of the potential etc. I'm planning a large layout with return loops so trains go to and return from real places, but at the moment, I have a double track main line 'test track' (plus branch, main line stations, lay byes etc), to enable me to increase my understanding of RR&Co and what it can do before sarting this much larger project.

Anyway, I hope the above has been helpful or at least interesting.

Best wishes

Mike

Ps - Forgot to mention, but you can download any of the 3 version and their respective manuals for free as part of the 28 day trial.

Manuals at bottom of page hear: http://www.freiwald.com/pages/traincontroller_gold.htm

Pps - I've no axe to grind re using TC, I'm just very impressed with it in meeting the aim of prototypical operation of a railway.

You will know it has left if you make each block section long enough to protect the longest train using it, as they usually did on the real railway. The company in my second link were making superb use of railcom and allowed for future development as well. I agree Lenz have failed to capitalise on their early lead in asymmetric dcc.

You will know it has left if you make each block section long enough to protect the longest train using it, as they usually did on the real railway.

Hi,

I agree that you need block sections at least as long as the length of the longest train, but this won't actually indicate that a train has left a given block, unless the last vehicle in the train is wired to trigger the block sensor, and then is seen to leave. This arrangement would also protect trains in the event of a train becoming divided, because the block would still indicate that it was occupied, despite the loco and rest of the train having left the block.

Best wishes

Mike