Tim Lewis Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 (edited) As I haven't yet made my mind up about the whole blogs v. topics thing, I'm transferring my workbench thread from the old RMWeb to here, and will continue to add to it as a topic, at least for now. I'll also take the opportunity to add this introductory post, which I can update to serve as some kind of contents list. So, here goes... Each of the old RMweb pages becomes a single (quite lengthy) post on here, so these links should take you straight to each of these 'posts': Contents list (this post) Old RWMeb topic page 1 Old RMWeb topic page 2 Old RMWeb topic page 3 Old RMWeb topic page 4 Old RMWeb topic page 5 Start of new RMWeb posts Thanks to Martin for this linking idea. I'll make this contents list a bit more useful later on. Edited 13/11/09, start of a more useful contents list. (not got the hang of text formatting yet!!) Contents by subject: Locos J25: page 1 page 2 page 3 page 4 J21: page 2 J39: page 2 page 3 Wagons LMS Stanier Brake Van: page 1 page 2 Cattle Wagons LNER: page 1 page 5 LMS: page 5 LMS Long Low: page 2 NB 16T mineral: page 2 LNER Plate: page 4 RCH 5-plank: page 4 Hoppers 21T LNER Dia.100: page 2 20T NER P7: page 2 page 5 13T BR Dia.1/140: page 2 13T LNER Dia. 137: page 2 page 5 17T NER P6: page 2 Edited March 3, 2020 by Tim Lewis Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Lewis Posted November 1, 2009 Author Share Posted November 1, 2009 On Tim L's P4 Workbench: (old RMWeb topic page 1) by timlewis original page on Old RMweb __________________________________________ ??? posted on Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:28 am This is my first attempt at posting an image, so let's hope it works. Hopefully, you will see a London Road Models J25, destined for Coldstream (a layout thread will appear in due course). Obviously still some work to do, but getting there. Further progress could be slow : this picture was taken over 2 years ago, and it still looks pretty much the same (actually gone backwards: currently fitting a chip). (edited 4/10/08 to try and change title) (edited to change title again 28/12/08 and 2/1/09 and 16/1/09 and 8/3/09 and 12/7/09 and 29/8/09 and 5/10/09) __________________________________________ Comment posted by Dan Randall on Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:44 am Nice work Tim and welcome to RMweb. Those flanges look quite fine - are you doing it in P4? Regards Dan __________________________________________ Comment posted by 87023velocity on Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:53 am Although I am a diesel/electric modeller, that looks nice! Look forward to seeing some more progress and the layout its going to run on! Simon __________________________________________ ??? posted on Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:42 pm Thanks for the kind comments. Yes, it is P4. Suitably enthused, I took the top off (oo-er) and took some photos of the 'works': hopefully, some of you will find it interesting. Here's a couple of views of the overall thing: The tender is split frame (hence the plastic insulation that the body sits on), and picks up off all wheels. The loco chassis is split frame too, but I didn't bother with split axles and pickups: saves a lot more metalwork underneath, and it runs very well just picking up from the tender. You can see the rather Heath Robinson (didn't he design locos for the GCR? ) springing arrangements and the fusewire hornblock retainers. Looks a bit of a mess, but in practice works well. (I built this about 7-8 years ago (that's nothing, wait till I tell you about my J21!), before the availability of Dave Bradwell or High Level-designed sprung hornblocks). This arrangement requires some lead in the tender to get the springing to work properly and the loco to sit level (if I were doing it again I'd probably use thinner wire, but I'm loathe to change it now). There isn't much space for the retro-fitted chip however, hence the GCR (sorry, Heath Robinson again) plastic cradle you can see in the photos. Having a tender mounted motor also means (big advantage) that you can fill the loco full of lead (so to speak), which should help pulling power. Final drive is via a High Level gearbox (can't quite remember which one: RoadRunner Compact plus I think. It's an articulated two-stage one anyway). The box is prevented from rotating by a suitably engineered(!) piece of wire that sticks through the frames: you can see it on the photo. Hope this hasn't been too boring. Comments welcome! __________________________________________ Comment posted by 10800 on Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:47 pm timlewis wrote: (I built this about 7-8 years ago (that's nothing, wait till I tell you about my J21!), Bit like my C2X then! Nice pics Tim, when did you go DCC? __________________________________________ ??? posted on Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:13 pm C2X: mythical type of loco kit, once seen in Maidstone several years ago, but now thought extinct. DCC is a relatively recent thing. Several of us in ###### (Shropshire & Herefordshire Area Group, stop sniggering at the back!) started building MERG controllers and handsets. Some are finished (mine aren't). Having said that, one (and possibly more) of us has just got a Lenz system of some kind, mainly because of the additional functionality (specifically, the MERG system is a bit limited on sound). At the moment I'm not sure whether to finish off and use the MERG kits, or go for a Lenz. In the meantime, the one loco I have with a chip in (J39) seems happy enough operating either on DCC or on my test track with my old Compspeed F. __________________________________________ Comment posted by Tim V on Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:17 pm Looking good. Where did you get those UJs? Are they the Branchlines ones? Tim V __________________________________________ ??? posted on Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:31 pm Tim V wrote: Looking good. Where did you get those UJs? Are they the Branchlines ones? Tim V Thanks Tim. No, the UJs are from Fourmil, the people who used to do (maybe still do??) Dyna-Drive. I got them quite a while ago. I seem to remember reading somewhere that they now only do Dyna-Drive fitting and can't supply components any longer, but don't quote me on that, I could be wrong. I believe the Branchlines UJs are pretty similar though (I'm sure I've got some somewhere). __________________________________________ Comment posted by Tim V on Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:48 pm I thought they looked slightly different. How does the loco run? And I can't see how the motor is held on? Tim V __________________________________________ ??? posted on Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:32 pm Tim V wrote: I thought they looked slightly different. How does the loco run? And I can't see how the motor is held on? Tim V It runs beautifully. Very smooth, and good slow performance. (I suspect this was more by luck than judgment). The motor is held on to one of the frame spacers by a high-tech blob of silicon sealant: you can see it in the underside view below. Can't remember where I first heard about this very simple but effective method: possibly Dave Bradwell? Anyway, it holds it firmly, is adjustable for a while, probably cuts down a bit of vibration, and is easy removed for maintenance if need be (obviously you have to re-do the silicon). __________________________________________ Comment posted by James on Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:48 pm Very nice! I considered a tender mounted motor for mine but went with an old fashioned 1224/50:1 single stage Ultrascale set up in the end! However for the J21 I'm intending to start later in the year, I want to use the arrangement you have. Could you post some pictures of the modificiations to the cab interior please? And just post more of your work! I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to see more of it! PS I do have a thing for all things North Eastern! The links in my signature will testify this too! __________________________________________ ??? posted on Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:49 pm Tim V wrote: And I can't see how the motor is held on? Tim V Oops! Thought that didn't sound quite right. Sorry, there is another small frame spacer underneath the back end of the motor (more or less in line with the centre axle). There is a small piece of rubber on here to support the back of the motor to give it a slight angle to minimise the UJ angles. There is a blob of sealant on both spacers. __________________________________________ Comment posted by Tim V on Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:51 pm timlewis wrote: It runs beautifully. Very smooth, and good slow performance. (I suspect this was more by luck than judgment). The motor is held on to one of the frame spacers by a high-tech blob of silicon sealant: you can see it in the underside view below. Can't remember where I first heard about this very simple but effective method: possibly Dave Bradwell? Anyway, it holds it firmly, is adjustable for a while, probably cuts down a bit of vibration, and is easy removed for maintenance if need be (obviously you have to re-do the silicon). I had to look very closely to see the sealant To my memory I heard about bath sealant back in the 70s being used to hold motors. I think I saw it at one of the early Protoforums (shows age ). I've usually used blue tac, as its easier to remove, but is of course, blue in colour. I might have another look at clear bath sealant. Keep up the good work Tim V __________________________________________ ??? posted on Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:18 pm James wrote: Very nice! I considered a tender mounted motor for mine but went with an old fashioned 1224/50:1 single stage Ultrascale set up in the end! However for the J21 I'm intending to start later in the year, I want to use the arrangement you have. Could you post some pictures of the modificiations to the cab interior please? And just post more of your work! I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to see more of it! PS I do have a thing for all things North Eastern! The links in my signature will testify this too! Thanks James. I've just tracked down your thread (I knew I'd seen one somewhere, couldn't remember where). Sounds like you had a similar experience to me. It is possible to build a decent loco from this kit, but it's reasonably hard work. I'm sure this mainly reflects the age of the kit design, which must be 25-30 years old. The biggest fault I found was that there was little in the way of positive location (tab and slot or whatever): too many butt joints, which I find next to impossible with soldered construction . As you noted, LRM do allude to a few 'issues' in their instructions, and I fully understand that they can't really do much about it, given that they inherited the kit. LRM deserve a lot of credit for updating the instructions: you now get 14 pages of typed A4 plus 12 pages of exploded diagrams: pretty good.I don't know whether you had the pleasure of the original instructions: I did, as I got mine form George Norton just before he retired. I think the instructions pre-dated him as well. I particularly like the instructions for the tender, which I will quote in full: "The tender has a choice of either the etched chassis on the superstructure fret, or the etched nickel silver one on the mainframe etch, and unless intending modifying to mount a motor the assembly is straightforward". Well, thanks very much!! Thankfully, LRM's tender instructions are around 4 pages: rather better! You asked about cab modifications. Well, I didn't make any, because I decided it was impossible to make the cab interior (i.e. rear splasher sides and tops) with the pieces provided, at least for my hamfisted soldering. I see from your thread that you managed it: congratulations. I decided that I would make the cab interior later, probably from plasticard or wood. (Not sure when I'll get round to this but I'll post some pictures when I do). The cardan shaft needs to pass through the cab, but if you get the angles reasonable then it shouldn't be too obtrusive: there will be a bit of a gap in the floor and backhead where they join, but not really noticeable in service. When I get chance I'll take a couple of pics of what it looks like at the moment. I've used a similar method in a J39 (I'll post some pics one day): this is even less noticeable because of the bigger more enclosed cab. Hope this is useful for when you do your J21. I've built a Nu-Cast version (not the best of kits), but that was before I 'discovered' tender mounting, and I have an LRM one in the cupboard, but not in a rush to make it: too many other kits in the queue. __________________________________________ Comment posted by 10800 on Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:18 pm timlewis wrote: C2X: mythical type of loco kit, once seen in Maidstone several years ago, but now thought extinct. no just dormant! __________________________________________ Comment posted by John B on Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:52 am Lovely work, Tim. As James will attest I've got a bit of a thing for matters North Eastern too, and I'll look forward to seeing more. __________________________________________ Comment posted by Horsetan on Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:14 am timlewis wrote: Tim V wrote: Looking good. Where did you get those UJs? Are they the Branchlines ones? Tim V Thanks Tim. No, the UJs are from Fourmil, the people who used to do (maybe still do??) Dyna-Drive. I got them quite a while ago. I seem to remember reading somewhere that they now only do Dyna-Drive fitting and can't supply components any longer, but don't quote me on that, I could be wrong. I believe the Branchlines UJs are pretty similar though (I'm sure I've got some somewhere). Formil only fit complete packages, as far as I know. However, you can still order some individual components (including the centrifugal clutches) direct from the makers: Brimalm in Sweden...... __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:00 pm James wrote: Could you post some pictures of the modificiations to the cab interior please? And just post more of your work! I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to see more of it! Bit difficult to photograph this, but this shows the current absence of cab interior (bit of lead sheet acting as makeshift floor). As noted in above post, I intend to make the splasher tops/sides (which essentially form the seats) from wood or plasticard later. Should also show how relatively unobtrusive the cardan shaft is (this is a 2mm one: people say 1mm is fine). The blu-tak stops the lead from dropping out of the firebox! (Not a permanent arrangement). The nifty little lifting rings are from Martin Finney. And, since you asked nicely , a few pictures of other stuff will appear in a few minutes. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:21 pm Here's a couple of wagons that have been slowly evolving for some time now. And a Parkside LNER Cattle Wagon (with a fair few alterations/additions) These are part of my cattle train (no! ) for Coldstream: there was a big auction market there, operating into the 1960s I believe (certainly into the 1950s anyway). I have 5 of these Parkside wagons built (all modified into the 10ft wheelbase version), which will be joined by 3 LMS, one Southern and one NER (for the time being: I have another dozen or so Parkside kits in the drawer, but I can't face them just now !) __________________________________________ Comment posted by Rannoch Moor on Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:12 pm Tim, Lovely modelling, absolutely exquisite stuff. I must get my hands on one of these Connoisseur Stanier brakevans. I built their BR version ages ago as one of my first EM projects and it was a great fun build although setting up the wheels was a pain as I recall - I overcame it by using come MJT or Comet rocking units I think, and was sold on compensation from then on as an easy way out! Look forward to seeing more, Gus __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:56 pm Rannoch Moor wrote: Tim, Lovely modelling, absolutely exquisite stuff. I must get my hands on one of these Connoisseur Stanier brakevans. I built their BR version ages ago as one of my first EM projects and it was a great fun build although setting up the wheels was a pain as I recall - I overcame it by using come MJT or Comet rocking units I think, and was sold on compensation from then on as an easy way out! Look forward to seeing more, Gus Thanks Gus. It's a while since I built the brake van, but yes I seem to remember that, without replacement W-irons of some kind, getting the wheels square might have been tricky. I tend to spring things, usually outside bearing W-irons either from Masokits or Bill Bedford, but in this instance it wouldn't have been possible to fit these in without destroying the cast axlebox/spring. So I fitted Masokits inside bearing W-irons to this one. Don't like them as much as the normal outside bearing ones, but still runs well. Unfortunately Connoiseur are no longer producing 4mm kits: a great shame, as they had a nice range and were fairly straightforward to build. Thanks again for your interest. Tim __________________________________________ Comment posted by DougN on Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:37 am Tim, Lovely J25 . I have been batch building 3 of the J21, J25's for about 2 years now. I liked your set up for the motor to the tender. I have been trying to find a set up I can live with out of 1224's and single and double stage boxes from Comet. I have yet to find a compromise that I am happy with So I currently have the J21 and J25 with tenders but without any under pinnings siting in a box. I have gone down a slightly different route though in that of the 3 loco's only one will be the LRM Kit the other 2 are scratch built! Cheaper for the motive power and it builds up my skills with building things. I will say that mine are all going to be built to P4, with Dave Bradwell suspension on the loco and Dave Bradwell inspired tender springing. After the J27 I built (which unfortunately needs additional work as I am no longer that happy with my standard of building at the time as it was 10 years ago) showed the DB meathod for the tender. As the tenders roll so beautifully smoothly it is the only way to fly! __________________________________________ Comment posted by Hamilton on Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:31 am timlewis wrote: .... I particularly like the instructions for the tender, which I will quote in full: "The tender has a choice of either the etched chassis on the superstructure fret, or the etched nickel silver one on the mainframe etch, and unless intending modifying to mount a motor the assembly is straightforward". Well, thanks very much!! Gee that's exactly what I just experienced last night when reading the instructions on my old Wills Finecast kit for a Fowler 4F - and I quote "Assembly of the tender is straightforward and it can be readily seen from the drawing where to put the individual components." Fantastic work there my friend. Can you enlarge upon your cattle van a little for me. What, where, who is the underframe kit for that? I really enjoy it and look forward to knocking up something similar. The cast buffers - Gibson? Sprung? Three links - from where? Just learning myself so excuse the questions. Just love what I am seeing in your work and thanks for sharing the excellent quality photos. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:39 pm DougN wrote: I have been trying to find a set up I can live with out of 1224's and single and double stage boxes from Comet. I have yet to find a compromise that I am happy with Depending on what kind of drivetrain you're considering, have you thought about the (relatively) new Exactoscale gearboxes? They do 1:1 and 2:1 'drop-down' boxes that would allow you to have a motor in the tender, but with the cardan shaft entirely below footplate level and therefore virtually invisible (I've not tried this, but it should work OK I think). Not cheap, but beautifully engineered, and you can take them apart easily. DougN wrote: I will say that mine are all going to be built to P4, with Dave Bradwell suspension on the loco and Dave Bradwell inspired tender springing. After the J27 I built (which unfortunately needs additional work as I am no longer that happy with my standard of building at the time as it was 10 years ago) showed the DB meathod for the tender. As the tenders roll so beautifully smoothly it is the only way to fly! As a general point, if you follow Dave Bradwell's methods, you won't go too far wrong. I've got a J39 with his chassis which goes together superbly, and I've also built a few of his wagon chassis. Tim __________________________________________ ??? posted on Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:52 pm Hamilton wrote: Can you enlarge upon your cattle van a little for me. What, where, who is the underframe kit for that? I really enjoy it and look forward to knocking up something similar. The cast buffers - Gibson? Sprung? Three links - from where? Just learning myself so excuse the questions. Just love what I am seeing in your work and thanks for sharing the excellent quality photos. Thanks. No problem with the questions: that's what this place is for. The cattle wagon is a Parkside body, with a few improvements and modifications to make the 10ft fitted version (see Steve Banks article in MRJ87 and some more useful photos in Geoff Kent's 4mm Wagon Vol.2). The underframe is a Dave Bradwell LNER 10ft AVB etch (with springing designed in) which, as usual with Dave's stuff, goes together superbly: I didn't use the solebars or headstocks from the etch as it's designed for 17'6" body and the cattle wagons are longer, but this is a very easy modification to make (just cut them off with a piercing saw). The change of wheel base means you have to change a lot of the bolt heads on the solebars: these are a combination of Grandt Line (the grey coloured ones) and Tichy Train Group (brown coloured) 'rivet' mouldings: sorry, can't remember which precise ones off hand. Other bits and pieces are as follows: axlebox/springs (MJT), buffers (ABS LNER 4 Rib F508 with the heads/shanks cut off, drilled and sprung with MJT heads (not yet fitted)), vacuum cylinder (ABS), screw couplings (Masokits), wheels (Kean-Maygib), spring stops (cut down D&S castings). Still to fit: vac pipes (MJT or 51L), roof (maybe the Parkside one which isn't too thick, otherwise curved plasticard), tethering rings (twisetd wire). Think that's about it. Hope this is useful. Tim __________________________________________ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Lewis Posted November 1, 2009 Author Share Posted November 1, 2009 On Tim L's P4 Workbench: (old RMWeb topic page 2) by timlewis original page on Old RMweb __________________________________________ Comment posted by Hamilton on Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:34 am That's very useful and I appreciate you taking the time to explain the massive list of upgrade parts you have used. Cheers for that Tim. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:02 pm I wasn't going to post these just yet (wouldn't want you to get the very mistaken idea that I'm prolific: far from it), but after a PM prompt by James here's a couple of pics of my J21. As alluded to earlier, I built this a loooong time ago (about 20 years), originally in EM, then converted to P4 around 15 years ago, and it's looked like this ever since. One day it'll get completed. It's an old Nu-Cast kit which, to be honest, wasn't very good. Boiler halves didn't match, chassis was a lump of white metal with 3 approximately parallel holes in it etc. To be fair, mine is a very old kit, and I think they have since redone the tooling (maybe) and you now get something like a proper chassis. Anyway, after lots of gouging of whitemetal and some additions, it doesn't look too bad, although I'm not convinced about the boiler diameter. The smokebox plate (which I've just noticed isn't central!) is a temporary version: in the drawer I have the proper one (which had curly 6s and 9s, at least in the period I'm modelling it). Can't remember where the Westinghouse pump came from, but the bracket is scratch built. It has a Mashima 1224 and Brachlines 67:1 Multibox. Runs OK, but not as well as the J25 (see above). This will end up on Coldstream, probably on a through goods. Tim __________________________________________ Comment posted by James on Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:19 pm timlewis wrote: I wasn't going to post these just yet (wouldn't want you to get the very mistaken idea that I'm prolific: far from it), but after a PM prompt by James here's a couple of pics of my J21. Thank you for posting these Tim! It does look very good indeed! My J21 sounds like it was new tooling; the boiler was a one piece casting iirc and the whitemetal chassis block was gone, replaced with an equally dubious thick and heavily cusped etched version! I'll update you with what I'm doing with mine soon! __________________________________________ Comment posted by micklner on Sun Aug 31, 2008 8:39 pm Hi Excellent models, what period are you modelling ? Mick __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sun Aug 31, 2008 8:48 pm micklner wrote: Hi Excellent models, what period are you modelling ? Mick Thanks Mick. Early post-Nationalisation, around 1950, but with a few minor anachronisms/modellers licence to cover the period c. 1947-1955 or thereabouts, so I can have some BR-designed wagons, a few Mk.1s, or some locos that didn't quite make it to 1950 etc. For exhibition purposes (which is a looong way off ), I'd try not to have these anachronisms 'on stage' at the same time. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sat Oct 04, 2008 7:06 pm Today, for a change, I've actually managed to do some modelling! , instead of working or some other tedious thing. I've done a bit more work on the Stanier Brake Van shown a while back: as I wanted a fitted example, I've fabricated a representation of the buffer packing pieces, like so.. which, after a bit of careful cutting and filing, end up looking this when in place... Before anyone mentions it, I meant to 'break through' to the drilled hole, it's not a mistake (makes a change). I think it was worth it, although it took a while. I tend to fit sprung buffers to just about everything: AFAIK nobody makes sprung rolling stock buffers with the thick shanks, hence the faffing around here. A friend turned and cut the brass tube for me. While I had the camera handy, I took a few photos of some wagons I made earlier in the year... These are a couple of Chivers LMS Long Lows, more or less straight out of the packet, though I did spring the buffers and used Bill Bedford sprung W-irons behind the moulded one. Lovely kit, which is more than can be said for the transfers: can't remember whose they were (POW sides from an LMS cattle wagon kit I think), but they broke up and floated away all over the place: very frustrating). The livery is supposed to be unpainted wood with bauxite number panels (prototypical), weathered as though it's been in service for a few years. I'm not convinced it really looks like this (I always find wood hard to do: I know the 'recipe' but somehow it never seems to come out quite right), but, strangely, I think they look OK anyway. This is a (very old) D&S ex-NB 16T mineral, looking a bit the worse for wear. Today, I've also started fitting alignment dowels to the baseboards for Coldstream, and I've been doing a bit on the Templot plan as well. I should start a layout thread soon. Cheers for now. __________________________________________ Comment posted by rob2 on Sun Oct 05, 2008 11:12 pm Tim, What a super job on that Nu-Cast J21!Equally the wagons,particularly like the NBR jobbie,not a kit I am familiar with-there are really not enough of the workaday NBR wagons around at the moment,so many seem to be from lost manufacturers.I've been running a one man campaign for a "Jubilee" wagon with on luck for some time now!I don't think theres even a brake van now though 51L,now at Wizard/MSE ,still have some interesting stuff. Look forward to the layout thread,I am welded to 00 but find EM and P4 layouts full of inspiring stuff! Rob __________________________________________ ??? posted on Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:46 pm Thanks Rob. I rather like the 'chunky' look of the NB minerals. I've got an unbuilt 18T one in the drawer for a rainy day. I was lucky enough to pick up both these D&S kits at the Bring & Buy at Scaleforum a couple of years back: ??????‚??3 each, bargain! I don't really need anymore of them, so I'm OK , but sadly, I don't think they are available now (certainly not from D&S), although didn't 51L/MSE take over at least some of the D&S whitemetal kits? __________________________________________ Comment posted by micklner on Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:09 pm Nice work on the wagons. ABS have some D& S whitemetal I believe in their range . I have a LNER Fish Van which still uses the D&S drawing on the instructions Mick __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:48 pm Took these pictures a couple of weeks back, but forgot to post them! What we have here are various hopper wagons that I've been building for a good many (too many ) years now. As frequently happens with my stock, none are really finished: I need a mass final detailing, painting and weathering session! First up are 3 LNER 21 tonners: (very) old Airfix RTR (I think) bodies on Bradwell underframes: fiddly but superb. Next a couple of Slaters NER 20T P7s: these were originally built in EM years ago, but I've changed them to P4 now, adding Masokits W-irons, sprung buffers, weight etc: haven't painted the W-irons yet. I've got 5 more of these on the go somewhere. Greenhouse in background provides weathering inspiration Next, Dave Bradwell BR-built 13T: as usual from DB, fantastic kit. One of the spring carriers has come loose: must put it back. I replaced the cwm buffers with sprung ones that I turned down (OK: filed ) from some LMS loco buffers: I've made the point before that no-one makes sprung rolling stock buffers for the 'wide-shank' varieties, which is a real pain). If I leave this one long enough it looks like it might weather itself! This is a scratchbuilt ex-NER P6 (IIRC) 15T, later uprated to 17T. Basswood body with plasticard details, Slaters plastic brake gear, lots of lead! LNER part-slope-sided (can't remember Diagram) 13Ts, scratchbuilt (plasticard) and David Geen kit (which of course became available just after I finished the scratchbuilt one): DG one not got a brake lever yet And finally, a slope sided LNER 13T, again scratchbuilt from basswood/plasticard and some brass and cwm bits: also not yet got a brake lever It looks as though the plasticard/wood bond may be beginning to curl on this one (it's exaggerated by the photo, but it is there): might have to do something about this. These, and others, will form the hopper train for Coldsteam: I've got rather more hoppers than I should have , but I like 'em and it's my layout . Cheers for now. __________________________________________ Comment posted by 10800 on Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:55 pm Nice vehicles Tim - what's basswood exactly? Is it the sort of stripwood model boat builders use? __________________________________________ Comment posted by micklner on Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:23 pm Top work , you cant beat a nice hopper or two How do you make the rivets on the scratch versions? Mick __________________________________________ Comment posted by Flying Pig on Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:28 pm timlewis wrote: This is a stunning model and despite your earlier comment about doing bare timber, you've captured it superbly here. To my eye it actually looks more convincing than the real basswood hopper pictured below it. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:32 pm 10800 wrote: Nice vehicles Tim - what's basswood exactly? Is it the sort of stripwood model boat builders use? Thanks Rod. I was worried that you might say "Are these the same hoppers that were running on Kerrin Basin at Scalefour North 2003?" To which the answer would be yes, and they look exactly the same Basswood: could well be used by boat builders, and aero-modellers as well I think. I don't actually know. The stuff I have is branded 'MidWest' and comes in various Imperial thicknesses: 1/16" and 1/32" are most useful for our purposes, but also comes much thicker. Usually 3" by 24" sheets. They used to sell it at Shrewsbury Model Centre before they moved out of town and became a mail order box-shifter Maybe they still sell it, but I rarely go there these days. No doubt you can get it other places, but off-hand I don't know where. It's quite nice to work with: much nicer than the very thin ply that you can get. Cuts and scribes easily, although it's fairly delicate. I bonded plasticard to it with Mek-Pak which seemed to work OK, although there is a suspicion of some bonds 'curling' as I mentioned above. It's better if you have plasticard overlays both sides, but if the prototype doesn't and it's an open wagon then this isn't really an option (and of course weakening the wood by scribing it doesn't help ). HTH __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:15 pm micklner wrote: Top work , you cant beat a nice hopper or two How do you make the rivets on the scratch versions? Mick Thanks Mick. I agree, you can never have too many hoppers I've used a variety of methods for doing the rivets and bolt heads. I've used various Grandt Line HO-scale mouldings, most often 5045 1" NBW (i.e. Nut-Bolt-Washer) and 5046 1 3/4" square NBW, plus a couple of other sizes that I don't have the reference for to hand. If you're not familiar with these, they come on a plastic sprue of around 30-40: cut them off near the main sprue and insert into a pre-drilled hole (usually around 0.3-0.4mm). If you leave the sprue long enough, it will poke through to the inside to represent the bolt-head (depends on what you're actually modelling of course). These are the grey-moulded rivets/bolts you can see on the pictures. I also used these on the scratch built 13T part-slope-sided one (now painted): sometimes I think they look a bit big, although it's less obvious 'in the flesh'. More recently I've also been using Tichy Train Group mouldings, which are similar but brown: you can see them on the cattle wagon on page 1. I've only got nominal size rivets from them, which they do in 5 thou increments, smallest is 0.020", but their website says they do lots of other NBWs as well. Apply in same way: drill hole and insert. I tend to stock up on both Grandt Line and Tichy stuff in the US: I go there usually once a year just before Xmas. There may be stockists in this country, or look at websites. I like the sound of the Archer transfers that you mentioned on your workbench, but I've not tried them yet. I have used two other methods: on the scratch built P6, I drilled holes, inserted lengths of (I think) 15thou rod (which diameter is quite difficult to come by), then snipped off the excess: looks OK, but drives you up the wall . Finally, on the cornerplates and strapping of the scratch wooden 13T slope sided hopper, I've simply embossed the bolt heads using a sharp implement: once you get a feel for it, this method is very easy and, as long as you don't handle things too roughly, should last OK: not as robust as mouldings, but a hell of a lot quicker. Another disadvantage is that you don't get any representation on the inside of the wagon, but then again, maybe life's too short HTH. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:32 pm Flying Pig wrote: This is a stunning model and despite your earlier comment about doing bare timber, you've captured it superbly here. To my eye it actually looks more convincing than the real basswood hopper pictured below it. Thanks. The 'unpainted wood' doesn't look too bad here: I still think it's a bit too green, but I can live with it. The basswood hoppers are of course yet to be painted: not quite decided how to do this yet: have done some experiments with paint and weathering powders, but staining with inks has some appeal, and there are some interesting posts on an 'Acrylic Paints' thread in the 'Questions and queries' forum. __________________________________________ Comment posted by Sharpwit on Sat Nov 01, 2008 1:29 pm Lovely stuff. -- John __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:56 pm Having not done anything to the J25 for a few months (see earlier posts), today I've made some meagre progress. Removed brake gear and wheelsets, blackened chassis, did some preliminary weathering and re-assembled. Looking promising I think, although clearly the weathering needs more work: I'll do this after final body assembly and painting. Chassis and removable brake gear, all nice and shiny! Tender frames won't be visible when body is on, hence no weathering. The somewhat mottled looking firebox sides need more attention: to be done later. Reasonably happy that this looks like a 'work-worn' wheel, although a few finishing touches and highlights would probably improve it. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:38 pm Over the past few days I've been trying to do all those little jobs that I've been putting off, with the aim of finishing the J25 (soon). As usual, these 'small' jobs end up taking a large amount of time (80:20 rule). However, I'm getting there. I've added handrail knobs to cabsides and smokebox front, top lamp iron for smokebox, handrails above steps each side, holes for Ross Pop safety valves and whistle, support for sanding linkage on LHS, sanding linkage on RHS, smokebox door and dart, plus repaired a few dodgy soldered joints. It's beginning to look like a J25. The safety valves and whistle are just balanced in place at the moment, so might be a bit cock-eyed. This also shows the support for the LHS sanding linkage. The RHS sanding linkage disappears under the boiler just behind the smokebox. You can just about see the handrails above the steps in this one. The number plate and hinge straps are just blu-tacked in place while I figure it how to make the hinge itself. __________________________________________ Comment posted by James on Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:22 am That's looking very nice Tim! I cheated and 'borrowed' a smokebox door from an old Nu-Cast kit I think! The one that's inlcuded in the LRM kit seems rather large - definately not the original NER type. For the LRM I have to build I was going to swap it for one from Dave Alexander. Can't wait to see this finished - though it'll make mine look rather poor by comparison! __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:23 pm James wrote: That's looking very nice Tim! I cheated and 'borrowed' a smokebox door from an old Nu-Cast kit I think! The one that's inlcuded in the LRM kit seems rather large - definitely not the original NER type. For the LRM I have to build I was going to swap it for one from Dave Alexander. Can't wait to see this finished - though it'll make mine look rather poor by comparison! Thanks James: if my J25 looks as good as yours when finished I'll be more than pleased. The smokebox door isn't ideal, but I've decided to stick with it. Many NER locos changed from a small to large smokebox door throughout their lives: to my eyes the LRM one (although mine is very old, so maybe they provide something different now?) is somewhere between the two. Just had another look at your workbench pictures: interesting to see the detail differences (apart from the obvious one of livery): yours has clack valves and the 'trumpet' safety valves, with whistle on the roof, whereas mine has no clacks, Ross Pops and whistle in front of cab. We should organise a side-by-side photo: maybe I'll bring mine along to Scalefour North? (assuming I've finished it by then!) __________________________________________ Comment posted by James on Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:37 am timlewis wrote: Thanks James: if my J25 looks as good as yours when finished I'll be more than pleased. You're too kind! The detail differences are quite subtle but all contribute to the overall effect of the models. Certainly what brings each model to life. timlewis wrote: We should organise a side-by-side photo: maybe I'll bring mine along to Scalefour North? (assuming I've finished it by then!) We can sort that - they can both be posed on the section of Botanic which will be there! __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:20 pm James wrote: We can sort that - they can both be posed on the section of Botanic which will be there! Will look forward to it! One step forwards, two steps back on the J25 today: finished off the hinges and straps (except for rivet heads which will be added later). Used a couple of Gibson shoulderless handrail knobs, suitably shaped with a file, as the hinge supports: worked quite well (sorry no pic at the moment). Also fitted the front coupling hook and the smokebox 'door knob'. On the downside, during the course of the day the RHS sanding linkage and one of the buffer gusset plates managed to detach themselves: more evidence of my useless soldering ability. Back to work tomorrow, so progress will undoubtedly slow to the usual snail's pace again __________________________________________ ??? posted on Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:56 pm Haven't made any more progress on the J25 but, following a request from ham on another post, here's some pictures of my J39. This is a Bachmann body on a Dave Bradwell chassis, powered by a Mashima 1833 in the tender driving an old Sharman 38:1 box via a cardan shaft. Clearly not finished, haven't done anything to the body as yet, apart from cut away the bits necessary to get it to fit the chassis, and add the whitemetal bottom of the boiler provided with the chassis. Chassis kit was superb, as you'd expect from DB (although the spring 'adjustment' method, essentially by bending a piece of the chassis etch (!) is an early design since improved upon in later kits). Runs well, although the gearbox has developed a bit of a grinding noise when hauling a reasonable load, so may need attention. An overall view: Some close-ups of the (dummy) inside valve gear This view shows how visible the valve gear is, so definitely worthwhile, and it goes together well once you've figured out Dave's sketch in the instructions The (removable) brake gear is made up, but not attached as yet (and isn't in this photo!). As is typical with my models, it's been at this stage for about 3 years, and is still on the back-burner pending completion of my J25 (and J21, and more progress with layout, and..., and... etc.) __________________________________________ Comment posted by OgaugeJB on Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:42 pm Hi Tim, it's great to see another J39 on the build. I am currently building a J39/1 in S7 (which you can see on my workbench thread viewtopic.php?f=8&t=19603), which has paused slightly due to a number of things. I'm yet to put working infernal valve gear between the frames, but the other reason for the delay in finishing the build is that eventhough I have the Yeadon's book for the J39, I still have no idea what the injector pipe runs behind the cab steps are. I was wondering if you had any drawings or better closeup images of that area?? The J25 is fantastic by the way !! JB. __________________________________________ 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Lewis Posted November 1, 2009 Author Share Posted November 1, 2009 On Tim L's P4 Workbench: (old RMWeb topic page 3) by timlewis original page on Old RMweb __________________________________________ Comment posted by OgaugeJB on Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:47 pm Oh, one thing I forgot to mention is that during overhauls the valve spindle ends below the smokebox door had plates placed behind them to move them forward. I can't quite remember why this was done, but it is something you might like to look at if you are modeling a particular engine and period.. JB-out __________________________________________ Comment posted by micklner on Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:36 am Hi Chassis looks superb . What kind of curves could that set up cope with?. Is the chassis designed for that set up alone or can it be used with a normal set up for the motor ? presumably attached to the rear driver? Mick __________________________________________ Comment posted by LH a JC on Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:53 am That is a mighty fine piece of engineering. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:42 pm micklner wrote: Hi Chassis looks superb . What kind of curves could that set up cope with?. Is the chassis designed for that set up alone or can it be used with a normal set up for the motor ? presumably attached to the rear driver? Mick Thanks Mick. I don't know what the minimum radius that this will go round is, but it has been round a couple of friends layouts without any bother: I think the minimum on any of these would be just under 3ft, but I imagine it would cope with sharper radii if necessary. I believe Dave usually designs his kits so that they will go round a radius of a metre (even the 9F apparently). Dave recommends a motor in the tender driving a Sharman box (which I don't think are available anymore?, the instructions were written in 1996), largely so you can get lots of weight in the firebox/boiler over the drivers where it's needed, but I don't see why a High Level/small Mashima (or similar) combination couldn't be used if you wanted. You might need to file away a bit of the chassis depending on gearbox choice. The picture below shows a view from underneath: there isn't much clearance for the Sharman box, but if you used something slightly bigger you could safely file away some of the adjacent chassis (this is part of the ashpan, the ingeniously-designed etch for which also includes the dummy springs and acts as a removable hornblock/axle retainer, hence the visible bolt head). The view from above shows the other end of the bolt in the ashpan: there's a fair bit of room in there and the firebox above for a motor/gearbox, but you'd have to ensure the correct choice to make sure it fits (but then you always have to do that). Hope this helps. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:48 pm OgaugeJB wrote: Hi Tim, it's great to see another J39 on the build. I am currently building a J39/1 in S7 (which you can see on my workbench thread http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=19603), which has paused slightly due to a number of things. I'm yet to put working infernal valve gear between the frames, but the other reason for the delay in finishing the build is that eventhough I have the Yeadon's book for the J39, I still have no idea what the injector pipe runs behind the cab steps are. I was wondering if you had any drawings or better closeup images of that area?? The J25 is fantastic by the way !! JB. Thanks JB. Just had a browse through your workbench thread: some superb stuff on there, love the K2! Not sure I can help much with your query: I'm not too hot on the technical aspects of steam engines, I just know approximately what they look like! . The only drawing I have for the J39 is the Iain Rice one back in MRJ34, which probably isn't detailed enough for your needs. I have a few J39 photos, but no clear details of the cab step area. The rear of the DB chassis looks like this: and upside down: And this is the sketch from Dave's instructions: I think the pipe runs you're referring too are probably not included in the kit, so I don't think this will help too much, but might still be of interest. In Dave's instructions, he mentions that "several" J39 drawings are available from the NRM plan service, so it might be worth contacting them. He also says that there may be Beyer-Peacock drawings (they made 28 J39s) at the Manchester Museum of Science and Industry. OgaugeJB wrote: Oh, one thing I forgot to mention is that during overhauls the valve spindle ends below the smokebox door had plates placed behind them to move them forward. I can't quite remember why this was done, but it is something you might like to look at if you are modeling a particular engine and period.. JB-out Thanks for the heads-up on this. My J39 will eventually be 64868 as running in the early 1950s, so I'll need to remember to check photos for this when I get round to detailing the body. __________________________________________ Comment posted by micklner on Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:49 pm Thanks great pictures . Mick __________________________________________ Comment posted by Jub45565 on Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:53 pm Looks like a good job on that chassis. How does Dave organise the suspension on these? It looks like an inverted version of Bill Bedfords W iron routine, is this correct? Cheers, __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:23 pm Jub45565 wrote: Looks like a good job on that chassis. How does Dave organise the suspension on these? It looks like an inverted version of Bill Bedfords W iron routine, is this correct? Cheers, More or less, yes. You solder a small L-shaped bracket to the axleboxes: this has a hole in it through which the spring wire passes. The bracket ends up on the lower surface of the axlebox, i.e. underneath the axle. Either end of the spring wire also go through fixed location holes on the frames. One end of this is adjustable. Extracts from instructions below should hopefully make this clear. When in place, they look like this (front axle with chassis upside down): middle axle: Springs can be adjusted either by using a different gauge wire, or by bending the angled piece of the chassis (with the spring locating hole in it) that can be seen to the right of each of the axles. This design is only used on the J39, which was the first of Dave's chassis kits (I think). I believe most, if not all, subsequent kits use hollow screws to locate and adjust one end of the springs (which is probably a better arrangement). I've got an unbuilt B1 and a WD in the drawer. so I'll find out one day! __________________________________________ Comment posted by Horsetan on Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:29 pm timlewis wrote: ....the J39, which was the first of Dave's chassis kits (I think). Um, no. The chassis which was and is part of the P3/J27 kit was the first to be released, followed by the chassis kit for the Thompson B1 (which had hollow grub screws from the word "go"). The J39 followed after I believe most, if not all, subsequent kits use hollow screws to locate and adjust one end of the springs (which is probably a better arrangement). I've got an unbuilt B1 and a WD in the drawer. so I'll find out one day! Yes they do. Word of warning: when you place the chassis the right way up, make sure that the tails of the individual springs don't fall out of the hollow grub screws when you lift the chassis up off the track or any surface that it might be resting on. I used Dave's adjustable system on an experimental chassis for the LMS Duchess, and also on the (still underway) Stephenson valve-geared Black 5, and had terrible trouble trying to keep the springs seated in the screws, even though the tails were the right length. __________________________________________ Comment posted by mlgilbert30 on Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:51 pm Word of warning: ............had terrible trouble trying to keep the springs seated in the screws, even though the tails were the right length. I had a similar problem using the Scalefour Society units on a Stanier 8F. Got around it by inserting short lenghts of brass tube, secured with Loctite 290, into the hollow grub screw. The tube was a closer fit on the tail of the spring and was effective in helping the spring to stay put. Morgan __________________________________________ Comment posted by Horsetan on Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:41 pm ^^ That sounds like a good way round it, Morgan. What diameter tubing did you use? __________________________________________ Comment posted by ham on Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:26 pm Ooooo this is gorgeous................ Makes me all impatient and eager - dribble Is it possible to put a motor in the engine rather than in the tender? I'm just not that experienced with chassis to start jumping frae the highboard with such things __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:49 pm ham wrote: Ooooo this is gorgeous. Is it possible to put a motor in the engine rather than in the tender? Thanks Ham. Re. engine in loco, see the post above from Jan 17 at 6.42pm. I'm sure it would be perfectly possible: you may need to file a little bit off the chassis here and there, but nothing major. I think the main drawback would be that you won't be able to get as much weight bearing directly on the rear drivers: I don't have enough experience to know how much of a problem this might be, but I imagine it would still run fine (but perhaps not quite as well?). Having said that, putting the motor in the tender really isn't difficult, and some of the High Level boxes are designed to be (optionally) driven this way. One advantage ( at least I think it is) is that you don't need to bother with pickups on the loco: just pick up from the tender. Between the frames on the loco is quite crowded as it is, especially if you put the dummy inside valve gear on. __________________________________________ Comment posted by mlgilbert30 on Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:41 pm Horsetan wrote: ^^ That sounds like a good way round it, Morgan. What diameter tubing did you use? Ivan, Just had a poke round in the workshop. I believe the tube I used has 0.8mm O/D x 0.45mm bore. Can't remember where it came from but I'm sure Finney and Smith would have something suitable. Morgan __________________________________________ Comment posted by ham on Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:00 pm timlewis wrote: ham wrote: Ooooo this is gorgeous. Is it possible to put a motor in the engine rather than in the tender? Thanks Ham. Re. engine in loco, see the post above from Jan 17 at 6.42pm. I'm sure it would be perfectly possible: you may need to file a little bit off the chassis here and there, but nothing major. I think the main drawback would be that you won't be able to get as much weight bearing directly on the rear drivers: I don't have enough experience to know how much of a problem this might be, but I imagine it would still run fine (but perhaps not quite as well?). Having said that, putting the motor in the tender really isn't difficult, and some of the High Level boxes are designed to be (optionally) driven this way. One advantage ( at least I think it is) is that you don't need to bother with pickups on the loco: just pick up from the tender. Between the frames on the loco is quite crowded as it is, especially if you put the dummy inside valve gear on. Sl???’?‚??inte __________________________________________ Comment posted by Stephen M on Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:08 pm This thread is very interesting indeed. I am another with a Bachmann body awaiting the purchase of a Bradwell chassis. All looks very impressive. Will be going down the huge motor in tender route as well. Quick question though, was there an MRJ article on this chassis or am I imagining things? Cheers, Steve __________________________________________ Comment posted by Horsetan on Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:19 am Stephen M wrote: ....was there an MRJ article on this chassis or am I imagining things?... Not that I can remember. Chris Pendlenton built the "K1" kit in a recent MRJ, and way back someone else built the "J27" kit. A photo or two also appeared of a John Hayes-built "WD" 2-8-0. Tim Shackleton built the Bradwell "B1" chassis in "OO" for his Wild Swan / "Plastic Locos" book. Not seen any articles (yet) on building the 9F, N2, J39 or A1 chassis kits. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:04 pm Horsetan wrote: Stephen M wrote: ....was there an MRJ article on this chassis or am I imagining things?... Not that I can remember. Chris Pendlenton built the "K1" kit in a recent MRJ, and way back someone else built the "J27" kit. A photo or two also appeared of a John Hayes-built "WD" 2-8-0. Tim Shackleton built the Bradwell "B1" chassis in "OO" for his Wild Swan / "Plastic Locos" book. Not seen any articles (yet) on building the 9F, N2, J39 or A1 chassis kits. Pretty sure Ivan's got it right here: I've never seen an article on the Bradwell J39 chassis. Iain Rice built a Wills (SE Finecast) one back in MRJ34. I seem to remember Don Rowlands briefly described a Bradwell Austerity build in Scalefour News a couple of years back. One thing I forgot to mention re. my J39. If I were doing another one (which I might at some point if I can find another body), I'd look into whether any of the relatively recent Exactoscale boxes would fit without any modification: I suspect they would and, me being fundamentally lazy, they're slightly easier to put together than a High Level (but more expensive). __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:21 pm A miniscule amount of prgress on the J25 today: first time I've done anything on it in weeks. You may remember (part way down page 2) that I was debating whether to do something about the smokebox door casting, and also thinking how to make the smokebox door hinge. I ordered an alternative door casting from Dave Alexander, which I think was probably a slightly better overall shape than the LRM one provided, but the hinge strap positions didn't allow space for the smokebox numberplate between the upper strap and the door dart base (or whatever it's called). It did have the advantage that the hinge itself was part of the casting, but by that time I had figured out a way of doing it and was quite pleased with it (Alan GIbson shoulderless handrail knobs together with the hinge straps from the kit). So, all things considered, I decided to stick with the LRM door. Inspired by gr.king's P1, I replaced the smokebox door dart with a piece of wire and two Gibson shoulderless handrail knobs (useful things ), but I also flattened them a bit to make them more 'handle-shaped' and so that they fit closer together. The base of the dart is a 16BA washer: it may be slightly on the small side, but a 14BA was definitely too big, and I thought it may be difficult to reduce the diameter of one neatly. I'm afraid I don't actually know what the thing on the side of the smokebox is (some kind of injector?), but I fabricated this from a turned down (in a mini-drill) 7mm handrail knob and a 16BA nut. A bit more shaping with a burr in a mini-drill is called for I think, but I'm fairly pleased with it. The front end of this thing shouldn't have a hole in it, so one conundrum is how to fill this but still make the handrail removable (sudden thought: make a hole in the cab front and put handrail in from that end: surprising how writing it down gives you ideas ). I can't believe how long these few changes have taken , but I took some comfort from Mike Anson's Western Road article in the latest MRJ, where he says that he often thinks for hours about how best to do things before actually doing them. I think I'm definitely from the same school! Anyway, here's what it looks like now: Compare this first view with the picture part way down page 2: I think the dart is a definite improvement. This also shows the hinge quite well. I'm quite please with the loco's profile: the smokebox front detail looks suitably delicate. (Top lamp bracket needs straightening) __________________________________________ Comment posted by 10800 on Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:30 am timlewis wrote: I can't believe how long these few changes have taken , but I took some comfort from Mike Anson's Western Road article in the latest MRJ, where he says that he often thinks for hours about how best to do things before actually doing them. I think I'm definitely from the same school! Me too - I think I've been using that excuse for years! All very well provided that when you do stop thinking and do it it all works! __________________________________________ Comment posted by Captain Kernow on Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:39 pm 10800 wrote: timlewis wrote: I can't believe how long these few changes have taken , but I took some comfort from Mike Anson's Western Road article in the latest MRJ, where he says that he often thinks for hours about how best to do things before actually doing them. I think I'm definitely from the same school! Me too - I think I've been using that excuse for years! All very well provided that when you do stop thinking and do it it all works! I do this as well, sometimes, only to find that the long-thought out solution fails due to some unexpected problem I should have forseen!... .... and then the instantly thought-out replacement solution is the one I end up going with, and which usually ends up being made to work (after the obligatory blood, sweat and tears, of course!). So, my conclusion is that it sometimes pays to just get on with it.... (although I do often have 'thinking time', due to it being enforced due to other committments).... __________________________________________ Comment posted by Captain Kernow on Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:42 pm Meant to add, Tim, that your work is very good indeed. I do admire your perseverence in slogging away with old kits particularly. I've built one or two dodgy examples in my time, I think the worst was probably a ropy old K's Black 5 I built for a friend many years ago. I do like your methods of overcoming a problem - using the 16BA washer for example, it's similar to the kind of solution I've adopted myself in the past! Edit - typo __________________________________________ ??? posted on Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:42 pm Captain Kernow wrote: Meant to add, Tim, that your work is very good indeed. I do admire your perseverence in slogging away with old kits particularly. I've built one or two dodgy examples in my time, I think the worst was probably a ropy old K's Black 5 I built for a friend many years ago. I do like your methods of overcoming a problem - using the 16BA washer for example, it's similar to the kind of solution I've adopted myself in the past! Edit - typo Thanks Cap'n. I've only done the two 'old kits' so far, namely the J25 and the J21. The Nu-Cast J21 is definitely a 'best of a bad job' contender, but I'm attached to it because it's the first loco kit I ever built. I wouldn't build another one of those. I have got another J21 (LRM, ex-George Norton, ex-Connoiseur, i.e. same lineage as the J25), but I'm not in any hurry to start it because a) the J25 was a bit of a pain and B) I've got lots of other locos to finish off, or start! (If only Dave Bradwell or similar made kits for ALL the prototypes I need!) The J39 chassis was much more enjoyable to build, because it all fit together, and didn't need lots of modification or additions. I must admit I'm feeling fairly smug about how the 16BA washer looks (a rare success) I try to look for 'solutions' that mean I don't have to try and cut any sheet metal to shape, because I'm useless at it. I'm happy putting together fiddly kits, but making my own components, forget it! __________________________________________ Comment posted by ArthurK on Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:43 pm That 'thing' on the side of the smokebox is the blower valve operated from the cab through the hollow handrail. Lets see someone do that in 4mm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Most NER locos had this arrangement __________________________________________ Comment posted by rob2 on Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:54 pm That chassis employs the most fiendish ingenuity Tim .....and now I know what that thinner pipe that comes out of the handrail is! Excuse me for hijacking the thread Tim but while pipework is under discussion- on some Q7's the RHS handrail divides about a third of the way along from the cab and a pipe comes out,ducking under the boiler...?Any takers? Rob __________________________________________ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Lewis Posted November 1, 2009 Author Share Posted November 1, 2009 On Tim L's P4 Workbench: (old RMWeb topic page 4) by timlewis original page on Old RMweb __________________________________________ Comment posted by The Minister on Sat Apr 04, 2009 3:52 pm rob2 wrote: Excuse me for hijacking the thread Tim but while pipework is under discussion- on some Q7's the RHS handrail divides about a third of the way along from the cab and a pipe comes out,ducking under the boiler...?Any takers? Rob Hi Rob, Its the operating rod for the steam reverse. Regards The Minister __________________________________________ Comment posted by James on Sat Apr 04, 2009 4:22 pm rob2 wrote: That chassis employs the most fiendish ingenuity Tim .....and now I know what that thinner pipe that comes out of the handrail is! Excuse me for hijacking the thread Tim but while pipework is under discussion- on some Q7's the RHS handrail divides about a third of the way along from the cab and a pipe comes out,ducking under the boiler...?Any takers? Rob Steam reverser pipework iirc - like this possibly? Excuse the poor teenage modelling! __________________________________________ Comment posted by ArthurK on Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:08 pm The Q5, Q6 and the Q7 all had the handrail split on the right side. As on the blower valve a rod through the hollow handrail operated a lever with am arm leading down to a valve which admitted water via a pipe to the steam reverse cylinder. In the older system a second rod was required to control entry of steam. The was only clearly visible on the Q5, on the other iwas concealed by the firebox cleading. In BR days one of these was dispensed with on the Q7s and the remaining one was at at lower position than the handrail. After that the Boiler handrail was continous. Best check the photo of you favoured model. On the Q5 the steam reverse cylinders were visible at the top of the right-hand sandbox. On the others they were low down between the frames. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:58 pm ArthurK wrote: That 'thing' on the side of the smokebox is the blower valve operated from the cab through the hollow handrail. Lets see someone do that in 4mm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Thanks Arthur (and others for the info on the steam reverser gear, another example of how useful RMWeb is! ) When I made the blower valve (he said confidently, now knowing what it is ), I realised that I should have included a thinner section of 'handrail', but I couldn't think of an easy quick way of doing it, so I decided to live with it, at least for now. Having had all this attention though, maybe I should do something about it (another excuse for not finishing the J25?). Maybe I should just file the handrail wire down a bit. Here's a close-up picture from the preserved J21, when it was in NER green at Beamish in the early 1990s. __________________________________________ Comment posted by rob2 on Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:35 pm Thanks all,thats that cleared up then,great prototype photos btw.Mine subject did have this and its a something I incorporated despite not being one to usually add a lot of detail but it interested me,glad I did now that I know what it is! __________________________________________ Comment posted by James on Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:48 pm Good to meet you Tim! Your J25 looks even better in the flesh! I was very impressed! __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:29 pm James wrote: Good to meet you Tim! Good to meet you too James. Didn't take long to upload the photos. The two J25s do look rather nice together don't they! __________________________________________ Comment posted by James on Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:01 am timlewis wrote: Didn't take long to upload the photos. I was keeping out of the way of the wall papering! timlewis wrote: The two J25s do look rather nice together don't they! They do! It was quite interetsing to compare the same type but at completely different stages of their careers too. __________________________________________ Comment posted by ArthurK on Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:12 pm Here's one I made earlier! Just for a contrast to those two nice P4 models, compare with my own very old, very battered OO version. Totally scratch built. Boasting Romford wheels for the loco and believe, it or not, Hambling wheels on the tender. I am beginning to show my age!!! Also fitted with KaDee couplings front and back, never could get the hang of three link. This was built as a batch of four 0-6-0s, J27 (saturated), J27 (superheated), J24 (saturated) and the above J25 (superheated). For some reason the J25 was completed some years after the other three. __________________________________________ Comment posted by ArthurK on Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:18 pm Just for the record this is the only time I photographed a J25 in the flesh. Location is Low Fell. The signal box is long gone, as is the loco. I could kick myself becasuse on a visit to Gateshead shed the sister engine 65727 was there but for some reason I didn't take a shot of it. It was tucked away in the corner but i am sure that I could have made something of it. All I have is a bit of it lurking in the background. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:39 pm Nice pic Arthur! Shame you didn't get the picture of 65727, as that's the one I'm building. Very nice model J25 too (and scratchbuilt as well: superb). No progress on my J25 since the above pictures. Combination of being very busy at work and also working on a few wagons for Lower Soudley for the Wells Show. Currently off work sick, but sufficiently debilitated (pleurisy: wouldn't recommend it) that can't do any modelling . Still, seem to be on the mend now, so should be able to get back to some modelling soon I hope. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:15 pm As mentioned above, I've a couple of wagons on the go, the J25 being on hold at the moment. Couple of Parkside 1923 RCH 5-planks, the ones with steel floors for carrying stone. This is one of the latest Parkside kits, with lovely crisp detailed mouldings that fit together superbly. I fit sprung buffers as usual, but this time packed out the back of the headstock to get the retaining bush further back in the hope that the springing will be softer. Unfortunately, the combination of this with Bill Bedford W-irons on a short wagon mean that there is conflict between the axle springs and where the buffers want to be: I think the easiest solution on this one is to use Masokits W-irons instead, which have a smaller footprint (the BB ones aren't attached yet). Also been working on a couple of Parkside plate wagons. This is a very early kit, and the mouldings are not as good as recent offerings, but still reasonable. It was a bit fiddly to get the ride height right, but looking promising. No problems with space for BB W-irons on these, although the prototype has wider (heavy duty?) W-irons: I'm not aware that anyone makes these, so I've filed the moulded ones down and simply put the BB ones behind. Once painted I don't think the subterfuge will be noticeable. (And yes I know there should only be one V-hanger on one side: I removed it after taking the picture). __________________________________________ Comment posted by craigwelsh on Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:44 pm timlewis wrote: Couple of Parkside 1923 RCH 5-planks, the ones with steel floors for carrying stone. This is one of the latest Parkside kits, with lovely crisp detailed mouldings that fit together superbly. We were wondering in the club what the steel plated floor was about, i'd assumed most merchandise wagons would still be planked. This wagon is a bit annoying compared to the 7-plankers in the floor being flush with the bottom of the sides instead of being raised at the sides,allowing full height solebars. It caused me some issues building mine with my own chassis I fit sprung buffers as usual, but this time packed out the back of the headstock to get the retaining bush further back in the hope that the springing will be softer. Are you doing anything about the ferrules on the end of the buffer bodies? They appear to be missing on the Parkside moulding and Exactoscale ones are underscale. Unfortunately, the combination of this with Bill Bedford W-irons on a short wagon mean that there is conflict between the axle springs and where the buffers want to be: I think the easiest solution on this one is to use Masokits W-irons instead, which have a smaller footprint (the BB ones aren't attached yet). This was one reason why I went for something closer to the Masokits spacing on my kit (other major reason was the other end where the longer springing got in the way of the brakes!). Also been working on a couple of Parkside plate wagons. This is a very early kit, and the mouldings are not as good as recent offerings, but still reasonable. It was a bit fiddly to get the ride height right, but looking promising. No problems with space for BB W-irons on these, although the prototype has wider (heavy duty?) W-irons: I'm not aware that anyone makes these, so I've filed the moulded ones down and simply put the BB ones behind. Once painted I don't think the subterfuge will be noticeable. (And yes I know there should only be one V-hanger on one side: I removed it after taking the picture). Bill Bedford told me at Railex he hopes to have heavy duty w-irons frets out by Rail Wells, indeed I bought a full underframe kit from him for the Plate wagon at Railex although I haven't built it yet. My previous plate had the same dodge you used along with a Fruit D that used thinned down originals, the plate however wasn't very square and I couldn't get it to run. Its since been dropped aswel so very much sidelined! Dave Bradwell does very nice brake levers and tie-bars for these if you want to enhance that aspect by the way. __________________________________________ Comment posted by Adam on Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:25 am Are you doing anything about the ferrules on the end of the buffer bodies? They appear to be missing on the Parkside moulding and Exactoscale ones are underscale. With Parkside's moulding technique it isn't possible to mould the collars (flange, whatever) on the buffer casting - Exactoscale call them ferrules because what they market are exactly that. I tend to use bits of 20 thou' drilled through and roughly shaped. If in a hurry I'll use a dab of cyano, if not, I'll weld them on and shape once set. Adam __________________________________________ Comment posted by David Bigcheeseplant on Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:16 am For buffer ferrels on Parkside kits I use evergreen 3/32 tube sliced then glued to the buffer shank with MEK when dry (leave overnight) use a large file to reduce the thickness, then a drill to countersink the end, To my mind it looks ok and is cheep. David __________________________________________ Comment posted by 31A on Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:42 am Are you doing anything about the ferrules on the end of the buffer bodies? If not replacing the buffers with metal ones, I tend to use a 10 thou wide strip of 10 thou Plastikard (i.e. square section or as near as I can judge by eye), curve it between my fingers and mek pak it to the end of the buffer moulding, a bit at a time to avoid breaking it, until a circle has been formed round the end of the buffer. The Mek Pak softens the edges into a curved shape, but can be finished off with files or emery paper when set, if necessary. __________________________________________ Comment posted by Captain Kernow on Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:29 am Either way, the most common way of adding these 'flanges' seems to be to Mek them on and let them dry rock solid, before filing down - that's what I'd do as well. Didn't know Bill Bedford was doing (?already does?) a chassis kit for the Parkside Plate? I'll check the heavier plate 'W' irons out at Wells, though, thanks for that tip. __________________________________________ Comment posted by craigwelsh on Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:36 am Adam wrote: Are you doing anything about the ferrules on the end of the buffer bodies? They appear to be missing on the Parkside moulding and Exactoscale ones are underscale. With Parkside's moulding technique it isn't possible to mould the collars (flange, whatever) on the buffer casting - Exactoscale call them ferrules because what they market are exactly that. I tend to use bits of 20 thou' drilled through and roughly shaped. If in a hurry I'll use a dab of cyano, if not, I'll weld them on and shape once set. Adam Not sure what you mean about the Exactoscale item? See http://www.exactoscale.co.uk/downloads/ ... ersjpg.pdf but the pack we got certainly didn't fix Bachmann or Parkside wagons. I Don't really want to try Mek making 30 wagons worth of these things . If that is the only way though . Yup Bill really has a plate underframe out and I have one, he also does an underframe for the BR tube wagon as well. Sorry for hijacking Tim's thread a bit here! __________________________________________ Comment posted by David Bigcheeseplant on Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:53 am "I Don't really want to try Mek making 30 wagons worth of these things . If that is the only way though ." I have done nearly 100 wagons adding the ferrals using tube, once you get the hang of it, then its quick and easy. David __________________________________________ ??? posted on Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:14 pm craigwelsh wrote: Are you doing anything about the ferrules on the end of the buffer bodies? They appear to be missing on the Parkside moulding and Exactoscale ones are underscale. Hmm, I suppose I should! Bit of a fiddly PITA, but then, what's new Bill Bedford told me at Railex he hopes to have heavy duty w-irons frets out by Rail Wells, indeed I bought a full underframe kit from him for the Plate wagon at Railex although I haven't built it yet. My previous plate had the same dodge you used along with a Fruit D that used thinned down originals, the plate however wasn't very square and I couldn't get it to run. Its since been dropped aswel so very much sidelined! Dave Bradwell does very nice brake levers and tie-bars for these if you want to enhance that aspect by the way. Yes, I've got some of Dave's tie bars and brake levers, which was part of the reason I didn't go for Bill's complete u/f, although I might try one next time round. Interesting to hear he's doing the w-irons: will need quite a few ultimately. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:32 pm Adam wrote: Are you doing anything about the ferrules on the end of the buffer bodies? They appear to be missing on the Parkside moulding and Exactoscale ones are underscale. With Parkside's moulding technique it isn't possible to mould the collars (flange, whatever) on the buffer casting - Exactoscale call them ferrules because what they market are exactly that. I tend to use bits of 20 thou' drilled through and roughly shaped. If in a hurry I'll use a dab of cyano, if not, I'll weld them on and shape once set. Adam So, having had my attention drawn to the lack of ferrules, I suppose I had to do something about it. I went for the 20thou plasticard option, which seemed to work OK: I must not have been paying attention in Buffers101 class, as I was blissfully unaware of the lack of ferrules until now That means I have several ferrule-less wagons, but I don't think retro-fitting will happen! Bit more progress on the plate wagons: the brake gear mouldings are a bit poor, the plastic is that horrible greasy black stuff, the detail isn't too good and both push rod mouldings are the same, which won't work with lifting-link gear. I really should have replaced the lot with brass/N-S, but I need to get these finished soon, so I lived with bits of it. I did upgrade with some Dave Bradwell etches, and put some spare brake shoe etches on the 'wrong-side' push rods. Should look OK in the end. My plan to use Masokits W-irons on the RCH 5-planks back-fired: the ride height was way too high and the axlebox mouldings were nowhere near the axles! Sadly, I only discovered this after super-gluing one set on (which I'm now trying to remove, half off so far ). So, I've reverted to Bill Bedford ones: I did try and remove some of the etch so I could still use sprung buffers, but the clearances were all too tight, so I've decided to live without sprung buffers on these: annoying, but it'll get them finished. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:18 pm Not posted for a little while: you may remember I was trying to get some wagons ready to run on Lower Soudley (the Shropshire & Herefordshire AG layout) at RailWells. Didn't quite get them finished, but then was taken into hospital, so the wagons made the exhibition, but I didn't Thankfully now back home recovering, so thought I'd post a couple of more recent pictures. The plate wagons got finished in time for the exhibition (just!) except for some final weathering touching up in places. Fairly pleased with how they turned out, although I reckon the Precision LNER freight grey is too dark, however, after some judicious weathering it doesn't look too bad. The RCH 5-planks didn't get finished: still awaiting numbers and weathering of the woodwork, but I was reasonably happy with how the steel floor looks: Might get some more done whilst I'm off work. __________________________________________ Comment posted by 10800 on Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:40 pm Nice Tim, especially that steel floor Good to see you back. __________________________________________ Comment posted by Sharpwit on Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:59 pm Nice steel. Did you say how you do that? I can't remember... -- John __________________________________________ ??? posted on Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:29 pm 10800 wrote: Nice Tim, especially that steel floor Good to see you back. and Sharpwit wrote: Nice steel. Did you say how you do that? I can't remember... -- John Thanks. No, don't think I have said how I did the steel floor. My 'methods' are (surprise, surprise) heavily based on those of Martyn Welch from The Art of Weathering, plus a bit of my own trial and error. Firstly the floor was brush painted with my usual 'steel wagon underframe mix', which is a mix of Gunmetal (Humbrol 53, NOT the Metalcote variety), light grey (Humbrol 64) and Bauxite (Precision, but Humbrol equivalent would of course suffice). I don't really know what proportions I use, just do it by eye, but it's mainly gunmetal. For a recently out-shopped wagon you might want to add a bit of black, but I generally avoid it. While this is still wet, on underframes I then apply liberal amounts of talcum powder, then almost immediately 'tap' off the bulk of the excess, then remove much of what's left with a very soft brush. This imparts a very subtle texture and also tends to highlight detail. Not only that, but it more or less dries the paint too, so you can proceed with further weathering if you want (although I wouldn't recommend anything too heavy duty until it's properly dry). For the steel floor, I did the same thing, except I wanted a rustier look, so instead of just talc, I also used a couple of shades of rust weathering powders (one quite 'orangey', the other quite dark brown) as well. These were just dumped onto the floor in small piles at random, then 'tapped off' and brushed off as above. Job done. Really very simple, and almost instant gratification! Hope this is useful. __________________________________________ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Lewis Posted November 1, 2009 Author Share Posted November 1, 2009 On Tim L's P4 Workbench: (old RMWeb topic page 5) by timlewis original page on Old RMweb __________________________________________ Comment posted by Pennine MC on Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:38 pm but I was reasonably happy with how the steel floor looks: I should think you are Thanks for that Tim; I have tried techniques working powders into wet paint, but not with any great perseverance, I have to say __________________________________________ ??? posted on Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:38 pm Pennine MC wrote: but I was reasonably happy with how the steel floor looks: I should think you are Thanks for that Tim; I have tried techniques working powders into wet paint, but not with any great perseverance, I have to say Thanks Ian. The first couple of times I tried it I ended up with a horrible mess. I think the key is probably the very soft brush used to remove the excess: you don't want to 'scrape' the powders, or 'grind' them into the surface, just lightly remove/re-distribute everything that isn't sticking 'naturally' to the paint. Also (probably goes without saying) the paint shouldn't be too thick (or too thin!). Difficult to describe, but works for me. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sat Aug 29, 2009 8:20 pm I've decided to try and actually finish some of the wagons that have been in a state of part-completion for varying numbers of years! There must be around 30 of them, mainly hoppers and cattle wagons. Here's progress on two of the cattle wagons: These are both LMS D1661 (David Geen kits). As you can see, one has got as far as a bauxite top coat. The other has a preliminary coat of 'wood' ('light grey' and 'natural wood'), although it doesn't really show up too well in the bright sunshine. The intention with this one is that it will be in bauxite, but badly in need of a repaint, with a fair bit of bare wood showing through: lots of painting stages to go yet. I also have two hoppers part way through the paint shops: A David Geen LNER 13T and a Slaters 20T P7. Both in the preliminary 'wood' paint: these will both be represented as unpainted except for number patches etc. I've decided to replace the brake levers and lever guides with these rather nice etches from Ambis: They've even etched the chain and split pin used to pin down the brakes: crazy! they're very nice, but very fragile and I doubt whether they'll survive long in service! The pictures show the 12T/13T etches, I also have some larger ones for the P7s. I'll post again when there's a bit more progress. __________________________________________ Comment posted by Steph Dale on Sun Aug 30, 2009 9:22 am Tim, I'm really enjoying seeing your modelling and (particularly) the finishing of your models. I was wondering how you'd got on with the David Geen LMS cattle wagons - I think yours are the first ones I've seen built up. I've also noticed that you've left off the etched straps; was this a deliberate ploy? Steph __________________________________________ Comment posted by Captain Kernow on Sun Aug 30, 2009 4:55 pm timlewis wrote: While this is still wet For the steel floor, I did the same thing, except I wanted a rustier look, so instead of just talc, I also used a couple of shades of rust weathering powders (one quite 'orangey', the other quite dark brown) as well. These were just dumped onto the floor in small piles at random, then 'tapped off' and brushed off as above That is very effective, Tim. I hadn't thought of putting the weathering powders on when the paint was still wet - I've done it that way, but let the enamels dry first, but I do like the added texture that your method provides! __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:51 pm Steph Dale wrote: Tim, I'm really enjoying seeing your modelling and (particularly) the finishing of your models. I was wondering how you'd got on with the David Geen LMS cattle wagons - I think yours are the first ones I've seen built up. I've also noticed that you've left off the etched straps; was this a deliberate ploy? Steph Thanks. The cattle wagons built up quite well: I built them up a while ago, but I don't recall having to do any major surgery. You get a choice of doors which is good (the two in the photos have different doors: one has a two-plank bottom door, whilst the other has a three-plank). As usual I sprung these (using Masokits etched W-irons): can't remember whether I used the axlebox/springs castings from the kit, or from another source. The 'missing' etched straps will go on later, after I've finished the main body paintwork. I made the roofs (not shown in the photos) from 20thou plasticard, braced with strips of 40thou cut (near enough) to profile with a compass cutter. These two will be piped (not fitted), so can keep the brake gear supplied in the kit. I intend to build another three of these, but am waiting delivery of some etched underframes from Bill Bedford, so that I can build them as fitted (these were a different diagram, D1840 I think from memory). These will need some minor alterations to the body strapping, but nothing that a few bits of plasticard won't cope with. Thanks for your interest. __________________________________________ Comment posted by Steph Dale on Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:06 pm Thanks for your interest. Not entirely idle curiosity, if I'm honest. I did the patternwork for David. I think I may have done that NE hopper you're building as well, but the memory fades - it would have been a long time ago... I'd forgotten about the two sets of doors too - oh the joys of a well set-up pantograph milling machine! Steph __________________________________________ ??? posted on Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:35 pm Steph Dale wrote: I did the patternwork for David. In that case, how about doing the patterns for the later D1944, and getting David to sell that as well! __________________________________________ ??? posted on Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:08 pm Bit more progress today. Some of the wagons have got to Stage 2 in the process of reproducing 'unpainted wood', having been dry-brushed with gunmetal, dark earth and light grey (not forgetting the insides!). Pre-dry-brushed example on the right. (Sorry about slight blurring on this one) Still a long way to go, but looking promising I think. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:58 pm Some more progress on wagons (though none are yet finished ): firstly, two LNER cattle wagons, one in BR livery, the other in LNER. The roof isn't really white, just looks it in the photo. Next, an LMS cattle wagon badly in need of a repaint: And a couple of hoppers: Obviously still lots to be done, but quite happy with progress so far, except for how long it's taking. Doesn't painting/weathering/transferring wagons take forever? __________________________________________ Comment posted by Torper on Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:46 pm Hi Tim, Sorry to drag you back briefly from these marvellous wagons to the J25, with which I've been much impressed. I've long considered the tender split-frame pick-up method you've used, but have been put off by the apparent unavailability of 2mm split axles for the tender wheels. I can't see any indication on the photos that you've cut the axles and rejoined them with insulating ###### and araldite or some similar system, and wonder how you dealt with it? And what did you find was the best way of establishing an electrical connection between the wheel rim and the axle? David __________________________________________ ??? posted on Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:55 pm Torper wrote: Hi Tim, Sorry to drag you back briefly from these marvellous wagons to the J25, with which I've been much impressed. I've long considered the tender split-frame pick-up method you've used, but have been put off by the apparent unavailability of 2mm split axles for the tender wheels. I can't see any indication on the photos that you've cut the axles and rejoined them with insulating ###### and araldite or some similar system, and wonder how you dealt with it? And what did you find was the best way of establishing an electrical connection between the wheel rim and the axle? David I used commercially available 2mm split axles (in 2 or 3 parts that you have to assemble): I can't remember where I got them though: I think it may have been Branchlines but I don't know whether they still do them (a quick look at their 'blog' style website includes a message from March 2008 saying that 2mm split axle parts are in short supply, but nothing more recent. Branchlines has recently changed owners, whether this affects what they stock I don't know). EMGS used to do them as well I think, but I'm no longer a member so can't easily check. You can just about see the axle joins on some of the photos if you look very closely, although they are a bit obscured by the hornblocks. I used etched shorting wires to connect the rim to the axle: I'm always rather surprised that these work at al, but they do, very well! I got mine from EMGS, but Bill Bedford does them. The J25 is packed away at the moment, but if I remember I'll try and take a couple of specific photos. Hope this helps. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:19 pm Some more progress with wagons over last couple of days (sorry no pics at the moment). Numbering/lettering on this batch is complete . I don't usually bother putting varnish over my transfers, but some of these looked a bit vulnerable and probably prone to coming off (most notably some of the Methfix ones, not used these before, found I had to wait quite a long time between each number to let them 'stick'), so I decided to varnish over all of them with Humbrol Matt Acrylic. Seemed to go on OK (brushed), but when dry left a very obvious 'whiteness' on some of the transfers. Bit disappointing this, will have to disguise with some suitable weathering. Started to put the brake levers/guides on the 13T hoppers, then realised that the Ambis etched guide (see pic above) isn't correct for the hoppers I've got (it is correct for earlier NER wagons, which in fairness is what Ambis describe it as). I was becoming resigned to reverting to the whitemetal castings from the kits (which are OK, but not brilliant), when I remembered I had a Dave Bradwell etch that includes some exquisite lever guides (see plate wagons earlier), so I'm using these. Slow progress! __________________________________________ Comment posted by 31A on Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:40 pm Interesting that you apply the transfers before you've finished painting the underframes etc., Tim - I ike the confident approach! __________________________________________ ??? posted on Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:53 pm 31A wrote: Interesting that you apply the transfers before you've finished painting the underframes etc., Tim - I ike the confident approach! Painting and weathering of the underframes will all be done by hand, so unless I make a real mess and/or my hand slips quite a way, then hopefully it shouldn't be a problem (hope I'm not tempting fate here!) __________________________________________ Comment posted by iak on Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:32 am The finished articles are awaited with anticipation __________________________________________ ??? posted on Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:04 pm timlewis wrote: Started to put the brake levers/guides on the 13T hoppers, then realised that the Ambis etched guide (see pic above) isn't correct for the hoppers I've got (it is correct for earlier NER wagons, which in fairness is what Ambis describe it as). I was becoming resigned to reverting to the whitemetal castings from the kits (which are OK, but not brilliant), when I remembered I had a Dave Bradwell etch that includes some exquisite lever guides (see plate wagons earlier), so I'm using these. Slow progress! Thought I'd do a bit more on the brake levers on the 12/13T hoppers today. Unfortunately, turns out that the Ambis levers are the wrong shape (unless I'm doing something really stupid, which is always possible, but I don't think so in this case). The straight section of the levers is too short, and they curve too much, resulting in a downward slope where the lever goes through the guide, and a funny looking arch shape above the axlebox. After much fiddling, mainly involving lots of bending in the plane of the lever (which is difficult to do without distortion) I managed to get something acceptable, but it was a lot more work than I was anticipating.. Grrrrr Maybe they are the correct shape for some 12/13T hoppers, but not for the ones I'm doing. I'm only doing two 13T at the moment: I'll probably battle with the other one tomorrow (though I might use some spare Masokits levers, which might be easier). Thankfully, the levers for the 20T P7s are straight, so shouldn't have the same problem. __________________________________________ Comment posted by micklner on Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:26 pm Are you aware of the C+L lever etches ex Slaters I use them on my Hopper thread they cover side and end brake versions Mick __________________________________________ ??? posted on Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:31 pm micklner wrote: Are you aware of the C+L lever etches ex Slaters I use them on my Hopper thread they cover side and end brake versions Mick Yes, I am, but thanks for the reminder. I remember following that thread with interest. I have a C&L etch that I will use (someday ) to make an ex-Central Division P7 with the end brake levers. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:07 pm The two 13T hoppers I'm working on are now back on their wheels: (3-link is stuck in the photo of one of them). Still a little bit more weathering to do (bit of rust on the metalwork), and some handrails to re-attach, then they're about done . Now on to the brake gear upgrade for the 20T P7s. This is the Ambis etch for the lever guides: The instructions aren't the best, for instance it doesn't tell you that the H-shaped piece (that bolts to the solebar) needs several folds. Managed to make some progress once I'd figured this out: So far so good, looks nice, but boy, these are fiddly. Next step is to fold the long piece over to form the lever guide: turns out this is slightly too long. In trying to fettle this, I broke the etch at one of the fold lines, then when trying to sort this out managed to lose alignment elsewhere. Cue lots of swearing . Will have another go tomorrow when I'm more in the mood __________________________________________ ??? posted on Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:22 pm This will be the last post on this thread in this version of RMweb: I've transferred all the posts to the new version. See you over there! __________________________________________ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Lewis Posted November 1, 2009 Author Share Posted November 1, 2009 Well that was easy, thanks to Martin for the transfer utility Further workbench progress will appear here in due course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iak Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Smashing stuff... How have you got on with the Ambis levers? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted November 1, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 1, 2009 Well that was easy, thanks to Martin for the transfer utility You're welcome Tim, glad you found it useful. If you post several pages from the Transfer Utility in one topic like this, it makes a very long page. So it's handy to provide a list of post links at the top. The page will then jump down to each post. You can find a link to each individual post by right-clicking on the post # on the right: In IE click Copy Shortcut Then you can build a list of links as (these are for this topic): [url=http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/2050-on-tim-ls-p4-workbench/page__view__findpost__p__13366]1st post[/url] [url=http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/2050-on-tim-ls-p4-workbench/page__view__findpost__p__13368]2nd post[/url] [url=http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/2050-on-tim-ls-p4-workbench/page__view__findpost__p__13369]3rd post[/url] [url=http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/2050-on-tim-ls-p4-workbench/page__view__findpost__p__13370]4th post[/url] [url=http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/2050-on-tim-ls-p4-workbench/page__view__findpost__p__13372]5th post[/url] [url=http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/2050-on-tim-ls-p4-workbench/page__view__findpost__p__13373]6th post[/url] Which becomes: 1st post 2nd post 3rd post 4th post 5th post 6th post If you put the same set of links at the top of every post, folks can then quickly jump down the page from one post to the next. regards, Martin. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Lewis Posted November 1, 2009 Author Share Posted November 1, 2009 You're welcome Tim, glad you found it useful. If you post several pages from the Transfer Utility in one topic like this, it makes a very long page. So it's handy to provide a list of post links at the top. The page will then jump down to each post. Thanks for the tip Martin: I'll probably do that when I write the 'contents' list (probably tomorrow). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Lewis Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 (edited) On 01/11/2009 at 21:43, iak said: Smashing stuff... How have you got on with the Ambis levers? Having snapped the etch on my first attempt at making up the lever guide for the P7 20T hopper (because it was too long: see above post around 1st October), I found a solution for further attempts. When cutting the guides from the etch, leave the etching tabs in place at either end: these can then be bent over and soldered together to form a robust (-ish) unit, see pictures below (well actually, you can't see it on the pictures because it's hidden behind the catch that supports the brake lever, but you know what I mean) The Ambis levers for the P7 are very nice: this picture shows how the complex shape of the bent etch is a big improvement on a solid plastic moulding. Below are just a couple of shots of the very nearly completed hopper, based on a picture in the Cheona book. It's fairly obvious that the makers plate (which are transfers from the Slaters kit) and the wagon sides show different numbers, but this will be remedied with a bit of judicious weathering. On the last picture you can just about see the monkey tails that I've added: eight on each wagon. Looks quite nice I think: only another six of these wagons to upgrade Edited January 31, 2023 by Tim Lewis Re-instate pictures 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iak Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 These look rather horny mon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Lewis Posted November 5, 2009 Author Share Posted November 5, 2009 (edited) Here's a couple of pictures of the first LNER steel 21T to be (nearly) finished. This was the first time I'd tried the 'Maskol approach' for weathering steel bodied wagons. Pretty pleased with how it turned out (and it was good fun too ). Edited January 31, 2023 by Tim Lewis Re-instate pictures 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Here's a couple of pictures of the first LNER steel 21T to be (nearly) finished. This was the first time I'd tried the 'Maskol approach' for weathering steel bodied wagons. Pretty pleased with how it turned out (and it was good fun too ). Mmmm, they very tasty. Regards Trebor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Lewis Posted November 20, 2009 Author Share Posted November 20, 2009 (edited) A couple of pics of the second 21T hopper to be (very nearly) finished. Just needs a final light dry brushing on the body and replacement of the buffer that fell off! Parkside's version of these hoppers is apparently out next month: definitely something to look forward to, although I don't really need/want any more hoppers just at the moment. It will be interesting to see how well they capture the brake gear, which is probably the 'defining' area of these wagons. They probably rank as one of my favourite type of wagon, so I won't be able to resist a few more at some point. Edited January 31, 2023 by Tim Lewis Re-instate pictures 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iak Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 I'm going to get some of the body parts for these newbies frae Parkside and use some of Mr Bradwells underframes... That is in addition to the Dapols - these of which look rather nice. Are some of Mr Bradwells wares used on theses by the way? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Lewis Posted November 20, 2009 Author Share Posted November 20, 2009 I'm going to get some of the body parts for these newbies frae Parkside and use some of Mr Bradwells underframes... That is in addition to the Dapols - these of which look rather nice. Are some of Mr Bradwells wares used on theses by the way? Yes, the complete underframe, and handrail supports, are Dave Bradwell's, only the body is Dapol (well actually these are so old that they're Airfix, but as far as I'm aware the Dapol mould is the same). The Bradwell etch is, unsurprisingly, superb and builds up into a really nice model, but they're relatively time consuming if you need quite a few of them! (I've built 3 and a half of the five I have so far: will be having a break from hoppers before I build the remainder). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Lewis Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share Posted November 25, 2009 (edited) A couple of pics of the weathered 13T slope-sided hoppers (not sure of diagram number) last seen in virgin wood/plastic some time back. Weathering of these was quite fun: the ironwork was done with the usual weathering powders onto still-wet paint (although I'm using less 'Gunmetal' in the mix for this now. I got a new tin and its quite different from my old tin! Although it is NOT the MetalCote variety, it is definitely much more 'metallic' than the old tin. This is rather annoying, since I used the old colour extensively. I guess the 'old' tin is something like 5-7 years old. Anyone else noticed this?). These wagons were put into service in 'unpainted wood' condition, but were only built in 1945, so I didn't want the unpainted wood to look too shabby. The woodwork was done firstly by applying Games Workshop Badab Black wash (i.e. not paint), which soaks into the basswood nicely. By itself however this looked too 'black' so was attacked with a fibreglass brush to reduce the 'blackness'. Then grey weathering powder was worked into the wood grain and again much of it removed with the fibreglass brush. The process was repeated a couple of times until I was happy with the result. The brake lever and guides still need final weathering (just blackened at the moment), then just a couple of handrails to fit, tone the numbers/lettering down a bit and they're finished Edited January 31, 2023 by Tim Lewis Re-instate pictures 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Lewis Posted February 27, 2010 Author Share Posted February 27, 2010 (edited) For various reasons I haven't really done any modelling for the last 3 months, but today I started putting together a Masokits 9ft Morton underframe. Exhibiting a typical lack of discipline, I should have done some more work on my hoppers and/or cattle wagons, but the temptation to start something new was overwhelming! Now I know David Bigcheeseplant has made about a million of these, and also wrote an article for MRJ, but I don't recall seeing a blow-by-blow construction sequence, so I thought some pics may be of interest to some people. Firstly, the main unit folded up: Then you fold up 4 of these: and solder to the main unit (alignment of these is important: tabs and slots are provided). There are small holes in these etches which the springs will eventually pass through, so it's important not to overdo the solder here: These are the spring carriers: which fold up like this: The brakes (only 2-shoe on this one) fold up like this: You then add safety loops (simple fold then attach using tab and slot again): and attach to the main unit (tab and slot yet again): You then fix the spring units to the main unit (springs are retained by the bent 'retainer' you can see at the corner: simple but effective: add wheels, et voila!! This is the first one of these I've built. I was very impressed with how easy it was: the quality of design and etching (and instructions) meant that everything fits exactly where it should, the tabs and slots are in the right place and don't even need opening out. I can see I'll be building lots of these (just as well I liked it, as I have around 15 more in the drawer!) The only drawback so far is that I used Exactoscale bearings and wheels and found that the W-irons splayed a bit, even after judicious filing of the pin points, so I may try some different wheels and/or bearings (either Exactoscale parallel axles, or Kean-Maygib wheels probably) and see if they're better. Hope this is useful to somebody! Edited January 31, 2023 by Tim Lewis Re-instate pictures 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted March 1, 2010 Share Posted March 1, 2010 Masokits springing units are always quite a bit under 24mm between springing units so its a tight squeeze to get anything in. Kean Maygib wheels and waisted bearings do work though as I have them fitted to a 12ton van. I did find the metal used is so thin that they tend to warp and twist unless glued/screwed to a floor. Not sure about the 9ft as i've done my own now but the 10ft only came with GWR type brake lever guards. The levers were also too short, the joggles not being accounted for in the design. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium dmsmith Posted March 1, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 1, 2010 I have built a couple of the 12ft units for two Parkside 24.5 ton mineral wagons, and was impressed by how well the sub ubits went together. However, I found that I needed to weight the finished wagons quite heavily to compress the springs. I started off by assuming that the wire supplied would need a weight of 25 g per axle, which I believe to be an accepted standard, but needed more 40-50 g per axle. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iak Posted March 1, 2010 Share Posted March 1, 2010 Masokits springing units are always quite a bit under 24mm between springing units so its a tight squeeze to get anything in. Kean Maygib wheels and waisted bearings do work though as I have them fitted to a 12ton van. I did find the metal used is so thin that they tend to warp and twist unless glued/screwed to a floor. Not sure about the 9ft as i've done my own now but the 10ft only came with GWR type brake lever guards. The levers were also too short, the joggles not being accounted for in the design. Agreed with the wheels Craig, I think I've used Exactoscales on the ones I've done Are your underframe beasties going to appear soon as they looked far more "usable" than the Masokit ones - not that they are that hard mind Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted March 1, 2010 Share Posted March 1, 2010 I use 51L bearings that are deeper than the exactoscale versions, although there is variations in these and in my latest batch and had to deepen the bearings with a drill, Ultrascale do a tool that will deepen bearings. Also I replace the spring wire with 8thou that does give a softer spring. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Lewis Posted March 2, 2010 Author Share Posted March 2, 2010 Masokits springing units are always quite a bit under 24mm between springing units so its a tight squeeze to get anything in. Kean Maygib wheels and waisted bearings do work though as I have them fitted to a 12ton van. I did find the metal used is so thin that they tend to warp and twist unless glued/screwed to a floor. Not sure about the 9ft as i've done my own now but the 10ft only came with GWR type brake lever guards. The levers were also too short, the joggles not being accounted for in the design. Yes, I think all the etches come with ratchet type brake lever guards, which is irritating. I plan to replace them with some Dave Bradwell 'pin-and-hole' type (there must be a proper name for these?) ones. I've now built a 10ft clasp brake version as well (no pics yet): I used Gibson waisted bearings and Kean Maygib wheels on this one: better, but still a little bit of splaying (I'm going to attack the bearings with a drill next). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Very good thread. May I suggest you start a new thread as this transfer thread is sending my computer into overdrive!! thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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