RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted October 7, 2009 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 7, 2009 Evening all I'm looking for inspiration on how best to replicate the type of semi-dressed but random stonework in this pub wall. Looked at the Wills range and the have regular dressed, rough random and various paving slab types but nothing close to what i'm after. I'm currently thinking of drawing the pattern on to the plastic sheet and then using a sharp point to scribe the mortar lines out. Any one know of any other embossed plastic sheet that may be suitable before i go scratch loopy? (Photo thanks to Penlan) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Chris, One other suggestion is to take a picture (on a dull day without shadows) of the sort of wall texture you wish to replicate, print onto paper and spray mount onto card or foam board. Use a blunt instrument to trace over the mortar lines and you've got a photo realistic textured surface. Get clever with photoshop, or similar, and you could include your lintels etc on the paper before you print. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy C Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 As theres nothing in the pre embossed ranges like that I would scribe it myself on plain plasticard. Use scraperboard knives to do this job rather than a scriber as they dont raise the edge of the cut as a scriber does. You can then pick at the individual stones to add some releif but as the stonework looks relatively flat you probably dont need to go to town on it. may be an idea to rough up the surface first though using a bit of wet and dry. I can hear people chunnering already about time etc but scribing it yourself has some advantages - eg if you are using embossed sheet you would have to let the lintels and sills into the embossed stuff - here you can just scribe it on and add a little extra for the sill. It isnt as bad as it seems though I do recommend a few breaks / beer as you can go stir crazy after a while - i did the overbridges on New Hey for exactly the same reason, no embossed plasticard was anywhere near like what I needed. Scraperboard knives can be picked up at most art / craft shops for a pittance and they are very useful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted October 8, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 8, 2009 Chris - have you thought about using DAS type stuff, sanded flattish and then scribing that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted October 8, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 8, 2009 Interesting thread, Certainly a technique that I am going to have to learn when I start building Bodmin! With the clay technique, how thick a layer of clay would you use? I assume that this would be fine stuck onto a plasticard shell? Painting the finished buildings looks like it will be fun!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted October 8, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 8, 2009 Interesting thread, Certainly a technique that I am going to have to learn when I start building Bodmin! With the clay technique, how thick a layer of clay would you use? I assume that this would be fine stuck onto a plasticard shell? Painting the finished buildings looks like it will be fun!!! I've done this technique using a balsa shell, although that was for a tunnel mouth. I used a thickness of around 2 - 3mm, certainly no more. If you use plasticard, I would give the surface a good sanding to provide something for the DAS to key into, but I'd strongly recommend experimenting with some scrap plasticard first, as the DAS is water-based.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy C Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 I've done this technique using a balsa shell, although that was for a tunnel mouth. I used a thickness of around 2 - 3mm, certainly no more. If you use plasticard, I would give the surface a good sanding to provide something for the DAS to key into, but I'd strongly recommend experimenting with some scrap plasticard first, as the DAS is water-based.... Not done it myself but isnt there some perceived wisdom of using PVA on the balsa to help the DAS adhere? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted October 8, 2009 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 8, 2009 Thanks all for the avalanche of replies and thoughts... Think it's either going to be scribed plastic or DAS. I used two packets of DAS on the club's Thomas layout when it was decided to convert it to a Harry Potter theme - castles etc. Despite the quantity i did i was never really happy with the mount of detail i could scribe into the surface - always seemed a bit coarse and prone to bits flaking off. I scribed all the blockwork into plasticard when building the viaduct for Treneglos. Equally as time consuming but more resilient. (Mind you i nearly cut a finger off with a Stanley knife....) If it is plasticard I'm thinking of getting some surface texture in the sheet first - coarse sanding and perhaps an experiment with making the surface soft with solvent and then pressing / dragging something rough over it. mmmmm, in the meantime, while i ponder (put off starting) i'll read some more of the new content on here! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted October 8, 2009 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 8, 2009 Chris, One other suggestion is to take a picture (on a dull day without shadows) of the sort of wall texture you wish to replicate, print onto paper and spray mount onto card or foam board. Use a blunt instrument to trace over the mortar lines and you've got a photo realistic textured surface. Get clever with photoshop, or similar, and you could include your lintels etc on the paper before you print. That is a different idea Andy. The building will be viewed at about 20deg to it's front face and I'd be worried a photo / paper would look too flat. Not sure either how colour fast / UV stable the inks in my printer are. I may well give the tracing idea a go thought - nothing looks as real as something (a pattern in this case) that was real. Hang on - just read your post again - don't think you suggested using the photo for the finished surface did you? Still good to use the photo as a pattern though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted October 8, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 8, 2009 What tools would you use to do the actual scribing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy C Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Thanks all for the avalanche of replies and thoughts... I scribed all the blockwork into plasticard when building the viaduct for Treneglos. Equally as time consuming but more resilient. (Mind you i nearly cut a finger off with a Stanley knife....) And thats a very good reason to use scraperboard knives! - you pull them acrodd the sheet therefore you are unable to damage yourself!! When i get a chance I'll post a pic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted October 9, 2009 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 9, 2009 Andy C I wasn't using a Stanley knife to scribe but to cut strips from thick plasticard to build up the parapets. Got careless with the repetitive cuts and a finger holding the 'safety' ruler strayed into the path of the blade. Urrgh. Can you buy the scraper foil blades separately? Would it be something that 'Hobbyworld' would have? If there's different shape blades can you recommend one? I seem to remember last time that i used a variety of sharp / blunt instruments to scribe the blockwork for Treneglos - but i was after a fairly deep, wide V grove. I think I'm after something more subtle here as the mortar looks almost flush with the stonework. There's a photo below of what i achieved last time (minus blood): Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted October 9, 2009 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 9, 2009 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy C Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Heres some pics of the knives - IIRC I got them from Fred Aldous's in manchester but since then I am sure Ive seen them in the arts and crafts dept our local "The Range", a place I occaisionaly go and lurk around for modelling material! they came in a pack of 4 no replacement blades as they were so cheap Id happily pay for new ones - the Diamond shaped one at the top (along with its finer counterpart which is doing walkabout on my workbench I presume) are the most useful. I can get some very fine scribe lines with this. Maybe not the best example of fine work as the sronework in reality is quite rough but the parapet wall, the face and the inside supporting walls of the Huddersfield Road bridge are scribed using these very tools - The abuttment is wills sheet which is correct for the prototype Hope these are useful Meant to say as well that when cutting plasticard to size i use a scrawker which works on the same principle, you drag the blade which is on the inside, so no cuts. Available from Eileens Euphonium! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted October 9, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 9, 2009 Heres some pics of the knives - IIRC I got them from Fred Aldous's in manchester but since then I am sure Ive seen them in the arts and crafts dept our local "The Range", a place I occaisionaly go and lurk around for modelling material! They remind me of the tools we used to use at junior school for making lino prints! (I bet that's banned by the H&S brigade these days!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy C Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 They remind me of the tools we used to use at junior school for making lino prints! (I bet that's banned by the H&S brigade these days!) They are indeed of a similar nature, except they are not sharp, as I remember lino cutters to be Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravy Train Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 hi Chris, Just having another go at replying. All good advice you have been given there, for me i would go for the DAS clay, at the end of the day it is down to how accurate you want to represent the stonework and DAS seems to be the better option. You could also use 60thou plastic but in this case the downside being it would be sharper and more precise like clean cur stone or brickwork not to mention more labouriously. below is a goods shed using DAS clay but indented to create the rough texture but if let dry you can scribe it with ease but you get a more clean cut effect. this photo shows a model scribed in plastic were a cleaner/sharper texture is created. cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted October 9, 2009 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 9, 2009 Andy C The effect on the parapet wall is the closest (i think) to what I'm trying to achieve - small random blocks, not too much texture, some coursing and reasonable fine mortar lines. When i first read the post i thought you'd scribed the retaining wall - my first reaction was that it looked similar to one of the Wills sheets.... a re-read revealed it was a Wills sheet! Gravy Train Great photos. The goods shed is similar to the effect i previously achieved using DAS - i think I'm after something closer to the second picture in terms of mortar lines but with more texture on the blocks themselves. Still thinking about Andy Y's idea of using the photos as a template for the stonework - will take some of the thinking out of marking up (ie can do while having a beer). I think the next stage is to have a play and see what cuts the mustard! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Still thinking about Andy Y's idea of using the photos as a template for the stonework - will take some of the thinking out of marking up (ie can do while having a beer). I think the next stage is to have a play and see what cuts the mustard! If you're still thinking of that Chris using one of John Wiffen's sheets could be a good starting point - http://www.scalescenes.com/products/TX48-Squared-Rubble which may save taking the snaps, the tone of the stone's fairly close to South Cornwall buildings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotcent Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 For stone buildings I have always used foamboard either 3mm or 5mm thick. This has an inner layer of expanded polystyrene with card on the outsides. The card, being reasonably soft, can be scribed with a blunt point either as random or as dressed stone. The material is very rigid and has the thickness you need for these old walls. If you can access the pictures of Burntisland at Scaleforum, the station building was built this way. Interestingly the adjacent hotel, which has the same prototype stonework, was built in scribed plasticard; different builders, different tastes! I find the foamboard very easy to glue (PVA) and it doesn't distort. It does need a very sharp knife to cut it cleanly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 For stone buildings I have always used foamboard either 3mm or 5mm thick. This has an inner layer of expanded polystyrene with card on the outsides. The card, being reasonably soft, can be scribed with a blunt point either as random or as dressed stone. The material is very rigid and has the thickness you need for these old walls. If you can access the pictures of Burntisland at Scaleforum, the station building was built this way. Interestingly the adjacent hotel, which has the same prototype stonework, was built in scribed plasticard; different builders, different tastes! I find the foamboard very easy to glue (PVA) and it doesn't distort. It does need a very sharp knife to cut it cleanly. Gordon (and Maggie) Gravett are the great exponents of the DAS method - any of their articles are well worth reading. I am still trying to find the time/pluck up the courage to use this technique on Colerne Mill! As Captian Kernow says, a thin smear of PVA helps the DAS to adhere to the shell of the building. On the other hand, the Pendon mob use scribed card. No doubt, if it had been available, they would have used foamboard too... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 I modelled the stonework on this pub using 80 thou plasticard and manually scribing the stonework in using a butane soldering iron with a very fine tip. I didn't go very deep but you can make the joints as deep as you like for the stonework you require. I then rubbed the whole thing back to get rid of the excess plastic that melted out. Just another idea. Cav Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucky Duck Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 I modelled the stonework on this pub using 80 thou plasticard and manually scribing the stonework in using a butane soldering iron with a very fine tip. I didn't go very deep but you can make the joints as deep as you like for the stonework you require. I then rubbed the whole thing back to get rid of the excess plastic that melted out. Just another idea. Cav Cav, I hope you don't mind but I don't think your pics did justice to your lovely work??¦ so I lightened them! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted October 10, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 10, 2009 Interesting to see another method. Would certainly find it a lot easier working in plastic than with clay/foam board etc... Very useful thread! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren01 Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Hi Have you looked at the Slater range as they do a very nice random stone sheet, which I used on my layout Torrington. All the best Darren Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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