Metropolitan Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 The Met had two little Manning Wardle 0-6-0's which worked the Brill branch but also did shunting duties at Neasden. Both were sold in 1915 and were replaced with a couple of spare A Class 4-4-0's (still with condensing apparatus). As far as I can tell the loco's (this one will be 'Brill No1') were exquisitely lined out in full Metropolitan livery but never actually carried the words 'Metropolitan' on them? Luckily I have some good photo's. I've wanted one for a long while and had thought that the now defunct Impetus Kit's were the only ones ever produced in 4mm. However I found out that Peter Kay did one and unbelievably, when I phoned Kemilway, he had one last fret together with the castings. The fret has been dug into and is a bit tarnished but beggars cant be choosers! Thr kit was designed for a Sharman wheelset (2mm axles) and a bespoke Sharman gearbox and motor. As far as I know these are no longer available so I'm using Gibson drivers with 1/8th to 2mm reducing sleeves and a tiny HighLevel gearbox. The kit has provision for many varieties of the class and includes inside working cylinders and motion. I particularly like the solid brass bar boiler which has substantial weight. I just hope I can squeeze the motor into the tiny firebox! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 ............ I just hope I can squeeze the motor into the tiny firebox! That is a tiny space, presumably motor AND Gearbox? I look forward to seeing photo's of how it's done. Presumably someone has managed so far, although (in my opinion) the Peter K kits were not the type that 'fell' together easily. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 You might glean more info on the prototype from the District Dave site. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted January 16, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2011 What a lovely little engine, it would fit into many works locations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Brill No.1 a bit like this one David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metropolitan Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 Divid How absolutely lovelly!!! Thanks so much for posting! One thing though... Why is it green? I had thought that the loco was only green when it was named 'Earl Wooton' but it was painted Met red when it was re-named 'Brill'?? I'm probably wrong but would be grateful fpr clarification? Ta Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 David Who makes/made the loco crew, a little 'lovey', but a nice, different, pose. Penlan - tearing hair out tying to get the horse reins and harness' correct on some wagons in Penlan's goods yard - it seemed a good idea when I started...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Paul Bambrick built the loco I am not too sure if its scratch built or from a Slaters kit, I did question the green livery when I saw it but he seemed to think it was right, I will ask again when I see him. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted January 16, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2011 The Metropolitan locomotives were originally painted olive green and only changed to crimson lake from 1885. It is quite possible that the O&A locomotives were painted green. The O&A had two bogie saloon coaches with end balconies provided by the Bristol C&W company in 1895. There is a OO scale drawing of one of these coaches in 'The Brill Tramway' by Bill Simpson. I have compared the drawing to the Ratio GWR bogie bolster wagon, the bogie centres are both identical as is the bogies themselves and even the bracing of the underframe, so it looks like an easy conversion. ( The coach is slightly longer because of the access steps to the end platform.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metropolitan Posted January 17, 2011 Author Share Posted January 17, 2011 The Metropolitan locomotives were originally painted olive green and only changed to crimson lake from 1885. It is quite possible that the O&A locomotives were painted green. The O&A had two bogie saloon coaches with end balconies provided by the Bristol C&W company in 1895. There is a OO scale drawing of one of these coaches in 'The Brill Tramway' by Bill Simpson. I have compared the drawing to the Ratio GWR bogie bolster wagon, the bogie centres are both identical as is the bogies themselves and even the bracing of the underframe, so it looks like an easy conversion. ( The coach is slightly longer because of the access steps to the end platform.) Thanks for that Phil. But now there another project for me to do! The Ratio/Met coach convertion!!! But back to the colour of the loco: My info is that when the loco was acquired by the Met in 1894 it was called 'Earl Temple' and may well have been green at this point? However the Met changed it's name to 'Brill No1' and painted it in lined Met red at the same time or before? I have no date as to the change of name. Green was the very early Met livery way before this loco came into stock? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metropolitan Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 I am about to start the build beginning with the chassis. However I am not happy that the kit is not designed and does not include axle bearings. I don't know why this worries me because, no doubt the model the model would be fine without any bearings! But as I am a creature of habit I've decided to fit 2mm bearings but only to the fore and rear driving axles. The hole in the frames for the centre axle I will vertically elongate a few thou and lightly spring the axle with some brass wire. In effect the loco will run as a 0-4-0 but with added pickups on the centre drivers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Brinkly Posted January 18, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 18, 2011 That diagram John looks like something I'd drawn on the white board during a DT lesson! Good luck with the kit! Regards, Nick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metropolitan Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 That diagram John looks like something I'd drawn on the white board during a DT lesson! Good luck with the kit! Regards, Nick. :lol: . If you can't draw any better than me may God help your kids!!! . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Brinkly Posted January 18, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 18, 2011 :lol: . If you can't draw any better than me may God help your kids!!! . Drawing was never my strong point! (However, historical, political and geographical issues are all fine!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Taz Posted January 18, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 18, 2011 Drawing was never my strong point! (However, historical, political and geographical issues are all fine!) And how much of a 6 year olds syllabus is taken up with politics, history and geography then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Brinkly Posted January 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 19, 2011 And how much of a 6 year olds syllabus is taken up with politics, history and geography then? I've thought that on many occasions! A number of my friends (and old teachers) felt that I should have gone down the secondary route! Well I could teach at a secondary level by converting my degree, but it would mean taking a year (possible more) out and I couldn't afford that at the moment. (Might have to twist Dad's arm up his back! ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metropolitan Posted January 20, 2011 Author Share Posted January 20, 2011 ( Nick: I would have thought you would have plenty of time to convert your degree during the four months holiday you teachers have per year??!!!! It's a hard life!) I set the chassis up on my Avonside jig. As mentioned above I fitted bearings to the outside axles and vertically elongated the middle axle holes so that the chassis acts as an 0-4-0. As I am using Gibson drivers, fitting them onto their axles is a one time only operation so to test the chassis I've used some old wagon wheels and it seems fine. You can only fit the drivers when you are sure that all is true, square and free running and even then they are an absolute pig. If you keep pulling them off and on then you are sure to have problems! Because of the jig, I do not have to worry about the crankpin/coupling rod relationship. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metropolitan Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 There's an excellent 1910 film on YouTube of the Met. No doubt these engines would have traversed these tracks occasionally. The title isn't quite right as the track is not electrified so the film shows the trip out from Harrow. There's another film showing the journey out from Baker Steet. Check out the wooden station at Moor Park and the passing of a Great Central train to Marylabone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike morley Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Wish I'd discovered this thread a couple of days ago, before you actually started construction, because my version of exactly the same kit is 75% built and you might have avoided some of the mistakes I made. Most important question; is it too late to revert to conventional eighth-inch axles? I went the 2mm axle route and have regretted it ever since. I wanted to compensate mine and realised there simply wasnt enough area of metal in the relevant places to install conventional hornblocks so went the ultra-basic route outlined by Mike Sharman in his book on the subject. This involves filing the axle holes oval (Like you are doing with your centre axle) and soldering thick brass horseshoes inside them to act as both axle bearings and hornblocks. If I'd been thinking properly when I did it, I would have realised there is enough meat in the chassis to do exactly the same thing with eighth-inch axles. The reason I regret sticking with the 2mm axles is because I found the brass collars supplied by Alan Gibson were somewhat oversize. This meant the Loctite 603 I'd intended to use to fix the collars to the axles couldnt even begin to get a grip. I ended up having to solder them to the axles - which is tricky when there's a plastic gearwheel threaded onto one of them. The outside diameter of the collars is also oversize so I had to then force - and, oh boy, do I mean force - the wheels onto the collars. Two had their hubs split in the process and had to be replaced. The extreme tight fit meant quartering the wheels was a nightmare and did nothing to help Gibsons legendary problem with wobbly wheelrims. You mention using a High Level gearbox, but dont say which one. I started off with a vertical Micromiser, assuming that because it was recommended for use with Project MRJ 0-4-0 Manning Wardles it would be equally suitable for 0-6-0's. It isnt - the driven axle is too far from the firebox. I ended up using a Loadhauler Compact Plus with the 2mm final drive gear from the Micromiser. This means you have to have the motor mounted horizontally in the boiler and as the kit was intended to have the motor vertically in the firebox some fairly drastic alterations of the bodywork are required. If I was doing it again, I'd use a LoLoader because this would mean it would be possible to get the motor up into the saddle tank, where there is far more room to play with. Another problem I had was that the body was etched from brass that was so hard I couldnt dimple the rivets out in the normal way, and I ended up having to anneal the parts that needed rivetting - which was something I'd never done before and was a heart-in-mouth undertaking. I've got a few pictures of both my own part-built offering and a few I took of Sharpthorn on the Bluebell Railway, if you think they'd help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metropolitan Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 Hi I do not wish to compensate my model. But I do dread having to use the Gibson wheels and collars as you say! As far as I know though Gison wheels are the only ones available? Thanks for the info re the gearbox. Can I not just chop a bit off the solid boiler to get it to fit? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted January 21, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 21, 2011 There's an excellent 1910 film on YouTube of the Met. No doubt these engines would have traversed these tracks occasionally. The title isn't quite right as the track is not electrified so the film shows the trip out from Harrow. There's another film showing the journey out from Baker Steet. Check out the wooden station at Moor Park and the passing of a Great Central train to Marylabone. This is the complete film here. >>http://www.ltmcollection.org/films/film/film.html?1Xfilm=FLO.002&_1XSESSION_=M7FRcBKN0D5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike morley Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 No reason why you can't use the same approach for your semi-sprung method. I've been trying to get a decent picture of mine but the pick-ups and busbars get in the way. I think there is enough meat on the chassis for conventional eighth-inch top hat bearings. It's the 6 millimetres that commercial hornblocks need that isnt there. As for cutting the brass bar up, I suppose you could but I'm absolutely certain doing that would be a lot more difficult than simply replacing the bar with a bit of brass tube. More things I've remembered since my first posting is that the kit's firebox wrapper isnt long enough and will need replacing. There is no bunker front sheet provided at all and its not the easiest thing in the world to scratch-build (Its shaped like an omega loop) Finally (Until I remember something else, that is!) is what brought me to a standstill this afternoon. The springs and their hangers arent mentioned in the instructionsn and I can't work out how they are supposed to be attached. It was Googling "Manning Wardle" in search of prototype photographs that brought me to this thread. I'm in the process of transfering everything from my desktop to my new laptop at the moment so it might take a while to post the piccies I mentioned. I'll put them up as soon as I can. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 The second part to Aylesbury is here Is that a GWR steam railmotor or autotrailer when it get to Aylesbury station? David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted January 21, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 21, 2011 The second part to Aylesbury is here Is that a GWR steam railmotor or autotrailer when it get to Aylesbury station? David If you are talking about the stock on the right, That is one of the Metropolitan Pullman cars attached to the Rothschild saloon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Brinkly Posted January 21, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 21, 2011 ( Nick: I would have thought you would have plenty of time to convert your degree during the four months holiday you teachers have per year??!!!! It's a hard life!) One of the many reasons for choosing the education field as my place of work sir! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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