Hydraulic Heaven

50 shades of black sounds like a Goth convention!

I have used lots of different coal too, often scraped from the bottom of my coal bucket or the bunker and then put it through two sieves to get the grades. The size of coal varied according to its use, as you have deduced and Anthracite is usually more "shiny" than coal. A firemen could probably tell you which coal came from which coalfield too.

I think the loads you have set up look pretty representative of different types, one thing someone here might know was wether BR coal trains were of a block type, i.e. from one pit/coalfield to one customer or were there different types of coal for a variety of customers grouped into big trains.

...and Anthracite is usually not as "shiny" as coal.

Not sure about that. The descriptions I've read say that it's very hard and shiny... which sounds like what I've got. It also says it makes minimal nasty crud in the combustion gases - a good thing in a loco with small fire tubes. Its' also difficult to light... which I can definitely agree with...

 

http://www.coalmerchantsfederation.co.uk/products/anthracite

I think the loads you have set up look pretty representative of different types, one thing someone here might know was wether BR coal trains were of a block type, i.e. from one pit/coalfield to one customer or were there different types of coal for a variety of customers grouped into big trains.

Thanks. I suspect the answer will be 'it depends'. My guess is that for the sort of coal merchants so beloved of us modellers there would be a variety of types (and sizes) of coal being delivered, but likely no boulders. Steam depots and big industrial users would be another matter.

First thoughts, the back row middle looked a bit odd, but after looking through a few shots on Flickr there are some industrial coal loads that look a bit like that, though I prefer the 'blacker' look.

In most of my photos, rain or sun, there is a little bit of sparkle or shine to the loads.

I would also say the loads need to be a little more heaped in the middle.

I think you have it right D869, about size. If it is a block train for industry then all small. A train leaving a pit may have a combination of sizes if it is for domestic customers. Wagons arriving at a coal yard or Coal Concentration Depot will likely have a mix of sizes and grades.

 

cheers 

First thoughts, the back row middle looked a bit odd, but after looking through a few shots on Flickr there are some industrial coal loads that look a bit like that, though I prefer the 'blacker' look.

Yes, that one is going to be the first one to go in the bin.

In most of my photos, rain or sun, there is a little bit of sparkle or shine to the loads.

Yes. I think that the snag here is that when broken down to 2mm scale the lumps tend to have very flat facets, so the whole lump sparkles when the light catches it at the right angle whereas in reality the sides of the lumps are more irregular, so the sparkly bits are smaller and more evenly spread.

I would also say the loads need to be a little more heaped in the middle.

The smaller grained loads are definitely too flat just now due to my laziness/impatience in not wanting to build up any heaps with Das (or whatever) and then need to paint it before I could stick the coal on. The more lumpy loads that I've seen in photos tend to be quite irregular without obvious heaps, but I suspect that other photos may show the opposite.

 

Regards, Andy

I made the 'heaps' in my mathieson wagons from extruded polystyrene as it easy to cut and shape and it was there in large quantities from my terraforming. The coal was applied over a liberal coating of wood glue or Easitrac glue (it could have been either) and then some were further doused with Klear from a pipette.

 

I looked at types and sizes and decided that the majority of non-loco coal would be graded to be in the region of a couple of inches per lump (~0.3mm lumps in 2mm) so large dust sized pieces was where I wanted it. 

 

I agree that Anthracite is universally described as more grey and shiny. 

I just checked my coal stash and you were right, I was looking at the smokeless stuff! I guess the answer to the shininess is a coat of varnish on the loads that need it.

I would also go along with heaps - I use balsa carved,to shape with smashed up real coal stuck down with thick PVA with a dollop of black acrylic in it.

I have an old tobacco tin with graded coal in and a little pot of coal dust which I sprinkle over the top  which maintains the slight sparkle you get with coal.

 

jerry

I looked at types and sizes and decided that the majority of non-loco coal would be graded to be in the region of a couple of inches per lump (~0.3mm lumps in 2mm) so large dust sized pieces was where I wanted it. 

I think that most of my wagon loads will be intended for domestic merchants and will use dust with something underneath to achieve the heaps. I'll likely have a go at turning all three types of coal into dust to see what sort of variation results.

 

I'll probably do one or two with more boulder sized coal and I'm tending towards the anthracite for the Manor's tender... although the Daw Mill is looking kinda grey under today's overcast skies. Decisions Decisions.

I just checked my coal stash and you were right, I was looking at the smokeless stuff! I guess the answer to the shininess is a coat of varnish on the loads that need it.

Hmm... an interesting idea. I might see what happens if I spray Dullcote onto some anthracite... that stuff is VERY matt and the anthracite is VERY shiny so it will be interesting to see what wins.

I would also go along with heaps - I use balsa carved,to shape with smashed up real coal stuck down with thick PVA with a dollop of black acrylic in it.

I have an old tobacco tin with graded coal in and a little pot of coal dust which I sprinkle over the top  which maintains the slight sparkle you get with coal.

Thanks Jerry. I was hoping for some words from the owner of a colliery layout.

 

Plenty more scope for experiments. I quite like this trial and error form of modelling where I'm not investing too much effort into each attempt and so don't mind chucking the failures in the bin.

 

The BHE 'coal' is still not doing it for me although I can't quite put my finger on what's wrong with it. To some extent I think that the answer is more art than science - the real coal may not scale down perfectly but it 'sells' itself better to the viewer (well, to me anyway). Anyway, that's number 2 in line for the bin.

I'm with Jerry on the use of coal dust to get the slight sparkle. I use coal liberated from the outlaws' coal scuttle, smashed up as fine as possible and then graded. I've tended to use a dark grey wash with some brown in it to tone down the blackness a bit as a rough nod to scale colour (I assume our loads should look more grey the further from the viewer they are placed - likewise less sparkly I suppose).

 

Looking at the prototype photos in Geoff Kent's books on 4mm wagons and also John Hayes's The4mm Coal Wagon it is amazing the different shapes that coal loads take depending on the size of coal and the method of loading. For example, lots of the finer coal loads are relatively flat with some curvature down into the corners, but I also have a photo from one of Bill Hudson's books showing a wagon loaded with pea slack at Grimethorpe colliery. It is heaped well above the wagon top with two just about distinct peaks which have been flattened off as the wagon left the screens (one to think about if modelling internal users at least).

 

Simon

I've tended to use a dark grey wash with some brown in it to tone down the blackness a bit as a rough nod to scale colour (I assume our loads should look more grey the further from the viewer they are placed - likewise less sparkly I suppose).

 

Looking at the prototype photos in Geoff Kent's books on 4mm wagons and also John Hayes's The4mm Coal Wagon it is amazing the different shapes that coal loads take depending on the size of coal and the method of loading.

Hi Simon. Using a wash is another idea - probably a better bet than spraying. In terms of load shape I guess that photos are the best bet but these seem to be rather less common than the volume of coal traffic would suggest. I guess that local unfitted freights tended to be quite unglamorous and to run on days and at times when photographers weren't around.

 

Regards, Andy

Can't contribute anything to help on this Andy, but am quietly reading, observing and taking notes for the future as some sound advice given.

 

Nice to see South Yard as ever...

Can't contribute anything to help on this Andy, but am quietly reading, observing and taking notes for the future as some sound advice given.

 

Looking forward to your posting on loads for those stone hoppers