Wenlock's Blog

Outstanding work, Dave - absolutely magnificent. It has a real presence to it which I don't think could ever be approached in 4mm.

 

I took some cab shots of the Dean Goods at Swindon a few years ago, if you need any additional detail (doesn't look like you do!)

The extra attention the coal rails have been given has paid off in my opinion.

 

It looks like the cab still needs a reversing lever?

Yes, the coal rails are much improved from the flat etch. What a luxury to have ready-made socket lamp irons in 7mm. Have you found any photos of the cab on one with an S2/S4 boiler? The only cab shots I know of are Belpaire versions like the STEAM example that Al mentioned. Presumably, you'll be adding seats as well as the reversing lever?

 

Nick

Nick - I quite forgot about the firebox difference.

Outstanding work, Dave - absolutely magnificent. It has a real presence to it which I don't think could ever be approached in 4mm.

 

I took some cab shots of the Dean Goods at Swindon a few years ago, if you need any additional detail (doesn't look like you do!)

Hi Al, Glad you like it! There is a certain presence about 7mm stuff, the main reason I stopped modelling in 4mm was the lack of mass and momentum I could achieve with my models.

 

Thanks for the offer of pics from the Dean Goods at Swindon, the main problem with the class is that every other one appears to be different from the one before! If I could find some detailed pics of a round top firebox loco as running in 1905 I'd be a very happy man!

 

Hope to meet up soon

 

Dave

The extra attention the coal rails have been given has paid off in my opinion.

It looks like the cab still needs a reversing lever?

Glad you agree that the half round wire on the coal rails was worth the extra effort. I've got a reversing lever for the cab, but I've not fitted it yet because I've no idea what colour it should be! If anyone could enlighten me about its colour along with that of the regulator in 1905 I'd be very pleased to hear!

 

Dave

Yes, the coal rails are much improved from the flat etch. What a luxury to have ready-made socket lamp irons in 7mm. Have you found any photos of the cab on one with an S2/S4 boiler? The only cab shots I know of are Belpaire versions like the STEAM example that Al mentioned. Presumably, you'll be adding seats as well as the reversing lever?

 

Nick

Hi Nick, as you've guessed I'm struggling to find any pictures of the inside cab on an S2/S4 boiled loco, I've based my interior on pictures of an Achilles class cab of around that period. I've tried to represent the external cab side sheet water shut of valve, but it's all pretty much guess work. I didn't know that cab seats were fitted in my period, I need to find a good picture of this. Presumably the seats remained in the same position after locos were fitted with a Belpaire Firebox, so any Dean Goods cab picture with seats fitted will do.

 

Dave

Forgive me if it's mentioned earlier in this thread, Dave, but I take it you've had a look at that recent book on Dean? I forget the title - something like "The man and his works" but much of it is about the Dean Goods.

The water shut-off looks fine to me, Dave. All the photos I recall seeing of cabs with round-top fireboxes have been larger locos and/or wider cabs and mostly fitted with screw reverser, so I don't know whether the seats were fitted from new, or at a later date. Many of the larger locos had toolboxes on either side of the cab which I think would have also served as seats, so crew seating might have long been a standard provision.

 

Nick

Forgive me if it's mentioned earlier in this thread, Dave, but I take it you've had a look at that recent book on Dean? I forget the title - something like "The man and his works" but much of it is about the Dean Goods.

Hi again Al, yes I've got the new book about Dean. I treated myself to a copy as soon as I heard it was being published. Although its a very interesting book with loads of information about William and his creations, there's actually not much information or photos of round topped Dean Goods!

 

Dave

The water shut-off looks fine to me, Dave. All the photos I recall seeing of cabs with round-top fireboxes have been larger locos and/or wider cabs and mostly fitted with screw reverser, so I don't know whether the seats were fitted from new, or at a later date. Many of the larger locos had toolboxes on either side of the cab which I think would have also served as seats, so crew seating might have long been a standard provision.

 

Nick

Sounds like we've both been looking at similar photos! I'd love to know at what date Dean Goods were first fitted with seats. Cabs were certainly spartan in Victorian times and I'd be surprised if the poor engine men were given seats from the outset!

 

Dave

Nothing like a good challenge, Dave. Whilst no seats are visible in the majority of photos that show parts of cabs, I've found a couple of early examples in A.K. Steele's Great Western Broad Gauge Album. The Abbot class 4-4-0 Rob Roy was involved in the Bullo Pill accident on 5/11/1868 when it ran into the back of a stationary cattle train. A view from the top of an embankment clearly shows what appear to be seats of a similar size to those fitted later on Dean goods. The are attached near the rear of the low side sheets of the open cab.

 

The second example is less clear, but appears to show a folding seat attached to the top rear corner of the reversing lever quadrant on Rover class Iron Duke, photographed by the Rev. Malan at Bristol, 11/11/1890. This may be a one-off, though, as I can't see anything similar on other photos of Rovers, including the very clear views of them on the Broad Gauge dump in 1892.

 

Nick

Dave,

 

What a lovely job you've made of her.  Really conveys the look of a Dean Goods around the turn of the century.  Is the back head removable?  If not you've got some very careful masking to do there!!  Just a question (not to you in particular), does anyone know what colour the inside of GWR cabs was c 1905/6?  I've seen some models with what looks like a cream colour interior, but have never found anything definitive.

 

Ian

Probably one you're aware of, Dave, but there's a partial view into the cab of a round topped Dean Goods (2357) on plate 129 of Vol1 of JH Russell's Great Western Miscellany. No date given, though, although there's an Armstrong goods in the same shot.

...does anyone know what colour the inside of GWR cabs was c 1905/6?  I've seen some models with what looks like a cream colour interior, but have never found anything definitive.

I'll stick my neck out, Ian, if only to encourage someone to find counter evidence...

 

I've never seen any evidence to suggest anything other than green (presumably black on black locos) with a black backhead. I reckon the cream colour idea is a preservation era thing taken from Midland/LMS and other railways' practice.

 

Nick

Dave,

 

What a lovely job you've made of her.  Really conveys the look of a Dean Goods around the turn of the century.  Is the back head removable?  If not you've got some very careful masking to do there!!  Just a question (not to you in particular), does anyone know what colour the inside of GWR cabs was c 1905/6?  I've seen some models with what looks like a cream colour interior, but have never found anything definitive.

 

Ian

Hi Ian, yes the blackhead is just resting in position for the photos. As far as I'm aware ( I'm quite often wrong), the only cab I've seen with a cream interior was on the 7mm 517 built by Tony Reynolds. This was painted in chocolate and cream to match an early auto coach and appeared in one of the monthly magazines. I'd imagine that keeping a cream cab clean would have been the final straw after polishing all those lovely brass fittings! Having said that, I'd love to see evidence to the contrary.

 

Dave

Probably one you're aware of, Dave, but there's a partial view into the cab of a round topped Dean Goods (2357) on plate 129 of Vol1 of JH Russell's Great Western Miscellany. No date given, though, although there's an Armstrong goods in the same shot.

Haven't seen that pic Al, can you see any evidence of seats?

No, the angle's not quite right - it's taken from trackside, looking up at the loco - although both driver and fireman appear to be standing. I'm not sure what those two spring-like things either side of the firebox hole are, but I can clearly see the left hand one in the photo.

 I'm not sure what those two spring-like things either side of the firebox hole are, but I can clearly see the left hand one in the photo.

 

They're springs for the rear drivers - quite a common GW feature (57xx have them too I believe). Very crew friendly...

 

Adam

No, the angle's not quite right - it's taken from trackside, looking up at the loco - although both driver and fireman appear to be standing. I'm not sure what those two spring-like things either side of the firebox hole are, but I can clearly see the left hand one in the photo.

Hi Al, as Adam says they are the rear wheel springs. I guess the Edwardian GWR weren't that hot on Health & Safety, I love to read a risk assessment for those! If you look at the picture of my blackhead you'll see the kit's representation of them.

 

Dave

...As far as I'm aware ( I'm quite often wrong), the only cab I've seen with a cream interior was on the 7mm 517 built by Tony Reynolds. This was painted in chocolate and cream to match an early auto coach and appeared in one of the monthly magazines...

There's a photo of 1160 in this livery at Southall in Edwardian Enterprise (p125). The upper part of the rear cab sheet is painted in a light colour, presumably the same cream as the upper parts of the outside. None of the photos I've seen of the 517 and 2021 class locos that were fitted with dummy coachwork are clear enough to see internal colours, though it's just possible that one of a 517 on the following page could be interpreted as showing a light colour.

 

Presumably, the County tanks painted in lake livery had the same colour inside.

 

Nick

WOW, WOW, WOW.

 

That really is a beautiful piece of work.  You certainly don't let the grass grow under your feet do you?  Very quick, but really accurate work.  The detail on the footplate is amazing.  

 

Much envy of your ability!

 

Mike

Dave

one fine looking model. These are a handsome prototype. I had not realised on these late Victorian engines, how narrow the cabs and tenders are. On my LMS 3130 there is a lot of footplate outside of them too.

 

What is the livery on this for your era, would it of been lined?

WOW, WOW, WOW.

 

That really is a beautiful piece of work.  You certainly don't let the grass grow under your feet do you?  Very quick, but really accurate work.  The detail on the footplate is amazing.  

 

Much envy of your ability!

 

Mike

Thanks Mike, glad you like the progress so far! I've really enjoyed building this one, the rapid progress is more down to good kit design rather than my ability. All the components for the blackhead are included in the kit, even down to lengths of copper wire for the pipe work! I'm on the lookout for a decent looking Edwardian loco crew to finish it off.

 

Dave

Dave

one fine looking model. These are a handsome prototype. I had not realised on these late Victorian engines, how narrow the cabs and tenders are. On my LMS 3130 there is a lot of footplate outside of them too.

 

What is the livery on this for your era, would it of been lined?

Hi N15, yes they are attractive looking locos, I think most of the late Victorian/early Edwardian prototypes have a certain charm about them. It must have been pretty cramped in that cab, I should think trying to swing a coal shovel without clipping the driver must have been interesting!

 

I'm planing on painting the loco in the 1903 livery. Fully lined dark green body, indian red frames, wheels and splasher sides along with lots of polished copper and brass work. I just hope my painting skills are up to it!

 

Dave